first test of the aussie summer 23/24

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He's rebounded since but in the period immediately post it was worse.

His next 7 tests yielded a S/R of over 70 & average of 38
Ah yes, two tests in that famously fast-bowling friendly venue of the UAE, followed by a series loss to India, in which he still took 13 wickets at 34.5. Not great, but still better than his career average vs India, the team which he struggles against the most.

And if we're cherry-picking stats, he then averaged 16.4, 24.5, 31.5, 17.0 and 17.9 in his next five series.
 
Ah yes, two tests in that famously fast-bowling friendly venue of the UAE, followed by a series loss to India, in which he still took 13 wickets at 34.5. Not great, but still better than his career average vs India, the team which he struggles against the most.

And if we're cherry-picking stats, he then averaged 16.4, 24.5, 31.5, 17.0 and 17.9 in his next five series.

Starc has actually become a fantastic red ball bowler and weirdly a worse white ball one, completely flipped from his early career. He's been brilliant the last 2 years.
 
Ah yes, two tests in that famously fast-bowling friendly venue of the UAE, followed by a series loss to India, in which he still took 13 wickets at 34.5. Not great, but still better than his career average vs India, the team which he struggles against the most.

And if we're cherry-picking stats, he then averaged 16.4, 24.5, 31.5, 17.0 and 17.9 in his next five series.
They aren't a random sequence of tests plucked from nowhere, so suggesting they're cherry picks is a nice straw man attempt. They're the stats the immediately follow an incident whereby we were caught cheating in a way to enhance swing bowling - of which he benefits most.

Like I said, he's bounced back, but it's a convenient coincidence that he suddenly became dramatically less effective right after.
 

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They aren't a random sequence of tests plucked from nowhere, so suggesting they're cherry picks is a nice straw man attempt. They're the stats the immediately follow an incident whereby we were caught cheating in a way to enhance swing bowling - of which he benefits most.

Like I said, he's bounced back, but it's a convenient coincidence that he suddenly became dramatically less effective right after.

Or it might have been he was dealing with a significant injury that caused him to miss tournaments after. Just a feeling it may have been that. It has not affected Starc one single bit
 
They aren't a random sequence of tests plucked from nowhere, so suggesting they're cherry picks is a nice straw man attempt. They're the stats the immediately follow an incident whereby we were caught cheating in a way to enhance swing bowling - of which he benefits most.

Like I said, he's bounced back, but it's a convenient coincidence that he suddenly became dramatically less effective right after.
Why was your analysis based on the next 7 Tests? Why 7 exactly?
 
Or it might have been he was dealing with a significant injury that caused him to miss tournaments after. Just a feeling it may have been that. It has not affected Starc one single bit
To actually state my position I also don't think it was the cause of his form, just it was a convenient timing for it and it doesn't look good.

I could be used as evidence and is somewhat convenient it happens right after, but I don't ultimately think that was it. He had a whole career of good figures before it
 
To actually state my position I also don't think it was the cause of his form, just it was a convenient timing for it and it doesn't look good.

I could be used as evidence and is somewhat convenient it happens right after, but I don't ultimately think that was it. He had a whole career of good figures before it

All it looks like is a bowler having a small dip due to playing injured (he should not have played half those tests under duress). You are reading way too much into a figure and pure stats, look what occurred after those tests, took a decent break to get healthy. The swing made no difference in fact the less swing the better he is as he usually was swinging it too much
 
I'd argue two teams using cut up bottle tops and (claiming) the umpires were fully aware of it and ignored it was slightly more overt.


Although second most overt cheating in a sport still not a great thing to be associated with.

Then again is spot and match fixing cheating? If so there'd be several more overt instances of that in the sports history.
Say it ain't so, Joe.
 
All it looks like is a bowler having a small dip due to playing injured (he should not have played half those tests under duress). You are reading way too much into a figure and pure stats, look what occurred after those tests, took a decent break to get healthy. The swing made no difference in fact the less swing the better he is as he usually was swinging it too much
Aren't you replying to me saying I don't think it was the cause? Seems like you're still trying to convince me of something that I already believe.
 
Why was your analysis based on the next 7 Tests? Why 7 exactly?
As the 7 tests are after they we caught is when his form suddenly drops. Is that not obvious?

In fairness I really should've used 6 as that was the next 2 series combined instead of 1 test thrown in from another series. The figures then are basically the same anyhow, with the 2 tests in the UAE then the 4 at home V India.
 
Aren't you replying to me saying I don't think it was the cause? Seems like you're still trying to convince me of something that I already believe.

It had nothing to do with the ball tampering that’s what I’m saying.
 
As the 7 tests are after they we caught is when his form suddenly drops. Is that not obvious?

In fairness I really should've used 6 as that was the next 2 series combined instead of 1 test thrown in from another series. The figures then are basically the same anyhow, with the 2 tests in the UAE then the 4 at home V India.
Yeah it was obvious. Weird though that you'd include one Test v Sri Lanka and then not the next one 5 days later but you've addressed that.
 
It had nothing to do with the ball tampering that’s what I’m saying.
I agreed with that before that post. Like I said I don't think it was the case, however it is a discussion point around the world. I'm on another predominantly English forum and it's often brought up when the whole thing is discussed so the perception elsewhere is that it is related.

The numbers back it up which can make it a compelling point but as you correctly point out with the overall context it was just a coincidence. A convenient one/inconvenient one depending which perspective you want to look at it, but a coincidence nonetheless, and one that's used as a targeted point at sandpapers impact.
 
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He has merit, all time great opener with good white ball form, and no stand out options to replace him. Just because you disagree doesn't mean it doesn't have any.

Also he was punished, heavily. The incident was half a decade ago and has no relevance to anything happening today.

True that was more opinion, but an average of under 30 for many years means his continued selection is controversial and whether you believe or not a lot of people think that continued selection has something to do with the incident.

But also note that saying it has no relevance to anything happening today is your opinion and it doesn't seem to be shared by everyone - see this thread and MJ Warner stuff. It's still live.
 
Is Warner more popular in India than Australia now surely? Great cricketer, his lack of humility is a downside, he would’ve been popular in the older Australian sides.

Who really care about his farewell tour honestly, will no doubt score tons against crap attacks, more of a reflection of the lack of competitiveness in test cricket.

Still one our best openers ever, wouldn’t have minded seeing someone else get a go this summer though.

Yes. He's revered in India and I wouldn't go close to describing him as revered in Australia.
 
After the Pakistan series, there are 4 tests before India arrive in what has now become the marquee home test series. Yes, a home series against India is more of a marquee series than England with their 15% win record here since the conclusion of World Series Cricket. With that in mind, I don't believe it's in the best interests of Australian cricket to give Warner the farewell home series he so desires. An opening combination of Bancroft and Khawaja getting 7 tests to bed in as a combo is better than giving them just 4 tests as an opening partnership before India turn up.
 
Think it would be more accurate to say he’s paid to put his name to a column someone else writes. Be interested to know how much input he actually has.

Well yes that’s a very good point too. A ghost writer would have to have written a fairly huge percentage of it

Pretty sure it's Bharat Sundarasan.
Just to clear something up - Geoff Lemon said on The Final Word that Mitchell Johnson writes his own column, with no ghostwriter.

I assumed - incorrectly - that Bharat ghosted it simply because they do a podcast together, which was quite naive of me, really.
 

Just to clear something up - Geoff Lemon said on The Final Word that Mitchell Johnson writes his own column, with no ghostwriter.

I assumed - incorrectly - that Bharat ghosted it simply because they do a podcast together, which was quite naive of me, really.
MJ admitted yesterday he is helped by a ghost writer.
 
After the Pakistan series, there are 4 tests before India arrive in what has now become the marquee home test series. Yes, a home series against India is more of a marquee series than England with their 15% win record here since the conclusion of World Series Cricket. With that in mind, I don't believe it's in the best interests of Australian cricket to give Warner the farewell home series he so desires. An opening combination of Bancroft and Khawaja getting 7 tests to bed in as a combo is better than giving them just 4 tests as an opening partnership before India turn up.
This would be ideal but I sadly can't see it happening.

Warner would have to REALLY stink it up in the first two Tests to not get his SCG farewell. More likely that he cashes in big time against Pakistan on home turf.

Warner plays until Sydney, then Bancroft plays rest of the summer. We go from there.

On the bowling lineup, is there actually a universe in which Lance Morris plays for Australia this summer? Or is he simply there for Starc injury cover?
 
This would be ideal but I sadly can't see it happening.

Warner would have to REALLY stink it up in the first two Tests to not get his SCG farewell. More likely that he cashes in big time against Pakistan on home turf.

Warner plays until Sydney, then Bancroft plays rest of the summer. We go from there.

On the bowling lineup, is there actually a universe in which Lance Morris plays for Australia this summer? Or is he simply there for Starc injury cover?

I'd love to see Lance Morris get a test but I can't see it unless one the of the paceman get injured.
 
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I'd love to see Lance Morris get a test but I can't see it unless on the of the paceman get injured.
That's my feeling. Along with the Warner speculation, naming Morris in the squad just feels like a PR strategy to get some interest in this series coming off the World Cup against two teams that don't tend to generate much interest for Aussies.
 
Just to clear something up - Geoff Lemon said on The Final Word that Mitchell Johnson writes his own column, with no ghostwriter.

I assumed - incorrectly - that Bharat ghosted it simply because they do a podcast together, which was quite naive of me, really.
I may have misread the transcript, but I’m fairly sure Johnson said it is still partially ghost written on his podcast just a couple of days ago. I’ll see if I can find it.
 
This would be ideal but I sadly can't see it happening.

Warner would have to REALLY stink it up in the first two Tests to not get his SCG farewell. More likely that he cashes in big time against Pakistan on home turf.

Warner plays until Sydney, then Bancroft plays rest of the summer. We go from there.

On the bowling lineup, is there actually a universe in which Lance Morris plays for Australia this summer? Or is he simply there for Starc injury cover?
Starc is apparently carrying an injury, so he may play in Perth
 
Just to clear something up - Geoff Lemon said on The Final Word that Mitchell Johnson writes his own column, with no ghostwriter.

I assumed - incorrectly - that Bharat ghosted it simply because they do a podcast together, which was quite naive of me, really.
Not naive at all...It's just a question of whether Bharat's the ghost writer or someone else...Probably a fair chance it is him.

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