Play Nice First transgender player in the AFLW

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NoobPie

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Such examples aren't necessary when the guidelines have been clearly outlined, rather than the AFL rushing out a last minute decision that is based on a specific person and likely forgoes any scientific study
No, they are necessary. Have you actually read the full guidelines?

They either provide individual sports a capacity to apply to their circumstances or they should do so

The AFL have made a pragmatic decision, in my opinion the correct one

The only thing they could be charged with is poor timing
 

King Brown

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Fair enough. Although it's possible to listen to social pressures, then complete a scientific study and make an educated decision with that information.
The science already leans towards the notion that physiological advantages are retained after transition. The transitioned women may not be strong as they were, but are still stronger than natural women.
 

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swifty

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Are people really questioning THE International Olympic Committee? The IOC is THE highest sporting body on the planet.

Their findings were clear. The current scientific literature supports their decision.

This is SCIENCE. Not politics.

The AFL gave in to fear and hysteria.
SCIENCE proves he was born a male. therefor doesnt qualify to compete against women as he has an unfair advantage. fact.
 

Cmarsh

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So if the AFL publicly states it uses the IOC gudelines as a benchmark, and Hannah's testosterone levels are well below the threshold, than why has she been knocked back?

Sounds like the AFL are making it up as they go.
 

Yippy Yi Yeo

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Always Ballin

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SCIENCE proves he was born a male. therefor doesnt qualify to compete against women as he has an unfair advantage. fact.
1. Please understand the difference between GENDER and SEX.

2. Biological sex is social construct and a spectrum. There is as much physical diversity and difference in 'women' as there are compared to men.
 

Whiskers

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Perhaps split the trans league in to 2 conferences. One is former females who identify as males the second,former males who identify as females.
Was always going to open up a can of worms.
If you are creating a women's league than other genders will want to compete aswell. Do we create more leagues for everyone or just let everyone who isn't male compete against each other?
It has to be the latter surely?
Can't discriminate can we.
 

PrideOf

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So if the AFL publicly states it uses the IOC gudelines as a benchmark, and Hannah's testosterone levels are well below the threshold, than why has she been knocked back?
That's why they quoted state-based legislation and guidelines as a part of their rationale.

Sounds like the AFL are making it up as they go.
I think that's a given, regardless of the issue.
 

SM

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Was always going to open up a can of worms.
If you are creating a women's league than other genders will want to compete aswell. Do we create more leagues for everyone or just let everyone who isn't male compete against each other?
It has to be the latter surely?
Can't discriminate can we.
It's discriminatory to have men compete separately. Have all genders compete in the one league.
 

scarecrow2k1

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No, they are necessary. Have you actually read the full guidelines?

They either provide individual sports a capacity to apply to their circumstances or they should do so

The AFL have made a pragmatic decision, in my opinion the correct one

The only thing they could be charged with is poor timing
I have read on it a fair bit and haven't encountered anything suggesting individual sports deciding within the IOC that they sit differently. In fact, the wording I've seen is 'without restriction'. Would be happy to be proven wrong on this as it essentially says my argument that the afl should follow the IOC is incorrect.

I wouldn't be praising the afl here anyway. It's a yes or no decision, so they had a 50% chance of landing on no. As you said the timing is awful, making it a day before the draft and robbing the athlete of an opportunity to appeal. The decision to allow her to compete locally is also a poor one, if she's not fit for AFLW it should be all comps. The afl have butchered the whole thing, regardless of your view on yes/no
 

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barrackers

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So if the AFL publicly states it uses the IOC gudelines as a benchmark, and Hannah's testosterone levels are well below the threshold, than why has she been knocked back?

Sounds like the AFL are making it up as they go.
Their statement says they considered her individual circumstances. At a guess size and that she was very recently a professional male sportsman.

We'll never know if a different decision would have been made for an average backyard Joe with no professional sports history.
 

King Brown

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1. Please understand the difference between GENDER and SEX.

2. Biological sex is social construct and a spectrum. There is as much physical diversity and difference in 'women' as there are compared to men.
How can something be both a social construct and a spectrum? Does society construct infinite genders? How?

How can something biological be a social construct?

If biological sex is a social construct, then what is gender?
 

10571z

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So if the AFL publicly states it uses the IOC gudelines as a benchmark, and Hannah's testosterone levels are well below the threshold, than why has she been knocked back?

Sounds like the AFL are making it up as they go.
Oh no what a travisity a person who was pissing at urinals a few years ago and trying to represent Australia as a male in the Olympics can't play in our brand new women's football league. Oh no.
 

scarecrow2k1

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The science already leans towards the notion that physiological advantages are retained after transition. The transitioned women may not be strong as they were, but are still stronger than natural women.
I'm not going to get in a scientific debate as I'm not qualified to do so, I just hope the AFL does a significant scientific study rather than approving/declining on a case by case basis
 

HairyO

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Are people really questioning THE International Olympic Committee? The IOC is THE highest sporting body on the planet.

Their findings were clear. The current scientific literature supports their decision.

This is SCIENCE. Not politics.

The AFL gave in to fear and hysteria.
You do realise the IOC said it was based on political and social reasons...
 

Belnakor

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The science already leans towards the notion that physiological advantages are retained after transition. The transitioned women may not be strong as they were, but are still stronger than natural women.
Height has to be a factor surely since she is in the 99.999% percentile for a woman. Whereas a man it would only be the ~97% percentile
 

swifty

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1. Please understand the difference between GENDER and SEX.

2. Biological sex is social construct and a spectrum. There is as much physical diversity and difference in 'women' as there are compared to men.
sorry, but "gender" is something that our society has made up to place someone into a specific "gender role"

you are either born male or female. Your interests, masculinity etc is your choice from then on.
 

jdz101

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So if the AFL publicly states it uses the IOC gudelines as a benchmark, and Hannah's testosterone levels are well below the threshold, than why has she been knocked back?

Sounds like the AFL are making it up as they go.
Perhaps because if Hannah was playing a womens professional contact sport, she would be utilizing a physique that she built while being a man to get an advantage on the competition?

190cm / 100kg is larger than a lot of the athletes in the male professional competition. You seriously don't see that she would have an obvious physical advantage over the entire female competition as a ruck/forward?
 

NoobPie

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The critical point in the IOC's recommended guidelines

D. The overriding sporting objective is and remains the guarantee of fair competition. Restrictions on participation are appropriate to the extent that they are necessary and proportionate to the achievement of that objective
 
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