Play Nice First transgender player in the AFLW

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Malifice

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100% of them... Or.. one cheery picked?
Scientific consensus is that in many cases, pre puberty transition is best. Scientific consensus is how science works.

There are specific puberty blocker drugs and so forth that stop a woman (born a boy) from the testosterone surge and developing a beard, body hair, muscle mass, thicker bones etc during puberty.

In addition to blocking testosterone, they can give estrogen to encourage growing natural breasts etc.

The other option is let the kid go through puberty as a boy, then try and undo the changes of puberty.

Physcially and psychologically, assiting a transgender kid through puberty as the gender they identify with is much better for the kids mental health, and cuts out a lot of problems later on.

Depends on the child. They dont just start pumping hormone blockers into a boy that gets caught playing with Barbie dolls. There is a fair bit more to it than that.
 

jatz14

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He would have loved the sight of that dude that transitioned and went into cage fighting beating the sh*t out of women.
The one that managed to beat a mid ranked regional fighter, but no one of any significance?
 

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PenAndPaperJosh

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Scientific consensus is that in many cases, pre puberty transition is best. Scientific consensus is how science works.

There are specific puberty blocker drugs and so forth that stop a woman (born a boy) from the testosterone surge and developing a beard, body hair, muscle mass, thicker bones etc during puberty.

In addition to blocking testosterone, they can give estrogen to encourage growing natural breasts etc.

The other option is let the kid go through puberty as a boy, then try and undo the changes of puberty.

Physcially and psychologically, assiting a transgender kid through puberty as the gender they identify with is much better for the kids mental health, and cuts out a lot of problems later on.

Depends on the child. They dont just start pumping hormone blockers into a boy that gets caught playing with Barbie dolls. There is a fair bit more to it than that.
There is also a lot of research to suggest that although prepubescent transition is good for the physical side of it, the mental affect is not justifiable in cases.
Like most scientific studies there is evidence on every side of the aspect
 

jatz14

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I look forward to the official AFL statement on this. On face value it seems like a very strange decision, given that she was able to play in another AFL-santioned league with seemingly no issue...
They did not need approval from the AFL to play her, it was their decision.
 

jatz14

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People seem to be overlooking the fact that she was refused entry to the draft this year, based on test results from this year. She has been specifically told she is not banned from the AFLW, just from this years draft. She can be retested next year, and if her test results are different based on another 12 months of hormone therapy, she can still get in.

I actually think this is a very good decision, and a very good precedent.

It means trans women are not banned from the AFLW on the basis they are trans. They can be excluded on the basis of strength. It means a 5' 11" 5 year post transition women can still apply with a good prospect of getting in.
 

Theprofessional

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The one that managed to beat a mid ranked regional fighter, but no one of any significance?
You mean Fallon Fox? Who fought their first fight in 2012 at age 37 and went 5-1 losing to a fighter 12 years her junior in controversial circumstances? A fighter who went on to fail their next drug test and go on to fight in the UFC? Fallon Fox who other female fighters said had strength that they'd never felt before- and the same Fallon Fox who bashed in some girls eye socket and retired at 39 years old?

That fighter?
 

Seedsfan

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I dont think being born (biologically) a man is (or should be) the end of it.

Are you suggesting a woman, born a biological man, who fully transitioned pre-puberty, and is very obviously a woman (hormonal, physical etc):

1) Should be locked up in a male prison if she breaks the law?
2) Should be forced to use the male toilets?
3) Should be forced to enter male athletic competitions?

Just like with gender, sexuality and ethnicity there are shades of gray here, not just black and white.
IMG_6089.JPG
 

Malifice

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There is also a lot of research to suggest that although prepubescent transition is good for the physical side of it, the mental affect is not justifiable in cases.
Like most scientific studies there is evidence on every side of the aspect
Absolutely. Its not a decision that is taken lightly. You need a GP, Pscyhologist etc to all advise it.

They dont just reccomend pre-puberty transitions for anyone and everyone at the drop of a hat. Its quite rare. But in many cases, it is the right option to take.
 

LeverPuller

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The thing that isn't taken into account by the "but the IOC" angle is that the IOC doesn't really manage contact sports in a semi-pro environment.

Even if Hannah was born a woman, at her size she would be in the 1% of peak physical athletes. Add in both the mental shifts by being able to get thumped by other males playing footy growing up, as well as the issue of how she performs in a semi-pro environment with the added muscle and fitness, and you have a player safety issue.

It's tough but I think it's correct.
 

ashep

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Bad decision which perpetuates the marginalisation if transgender people.

If Hannah identifies as a female and has undergone requisite medical treatment to align her biological profile with her gender then she should be able to play.
 

jatz14

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You mean Fallon Fox? Who fought their first fight in 2012 at age 37 and went 5-1 losing to a fighter 12 years her junior in controversial circumstances? Fallon Fox who other female fighters said had strength that they'd never felt before- and the same Fallon Fox who bashed in some girls eye socket and retired at 39 years old?

That fighter?
Someone had their eye socket broken in MMA, oh my ******* god, the horror. Lucky she didnt break someones leg, or arm, or tear their shoulder out, or break their jaw, or fracture their skull, all of which female MMA fighters have managed to do.
I know some of the good female MMA fighters by name, give me someone she beat who is good.
 

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Cleric

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The one that managed to beat a mid ranked regional fighter, but no one of any significance?
If you dont think if this guy didnt live for 20-30 years gaining male attributes, which werent fully taken away the minute he took hormones you are kidding yourself.
 

Barry Roundhouse

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The one that managed to beat a mid ranked regional fighter, but no one of any significance?
Calling Ashlee Evans Smith mid ranked regional is so disingenuous.

She is a very very capable fighter... In the top bracket of fighter in her (shallow) weight class.

Fallon beat her previous competition using strength. Any MMA analyst will tell you her technique was sub par, and when she ran into someone capable, she lost.
 

Cleric

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Someone had their eye socket broken in MMA, oh my ******* god, the horror. Lucky she didnt break someones leg, or arm, or tear their shoulder out, or break their jaw, or fracture their skull, all of which female MMA fighters have managed to do.
I know some of the good female MMA fighters by name, give me someone she beat who is good.
You are a misogynist. If Brock Lezner started taking estrogen after 30 years of test, you think it is A-Ok for him to fight some chick, so.long as his current test levels are lower?
 

Theprofessional

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The one that managed to beat a mid ranked regional fighter, but no one of any significance?
Someone had their eye socket broken in MMA, oh my ******* god, the horror. Lucky she didnt break someones leg, or arm, or tear their shoulder out, or break their jaw, or fracture their skull, all of which female MMA fighters have managed to do.
I know some of the good female MMA fighters by name, give me someone she beat who is good.
Think you are jumping and ignoring at age 37 Fallon Fox fought their first fight- and their only loss was against somebody who failed a drug test in their next fight (while the fight was controversial) before that fighter went onto the UFC.

So Fallon Fox fights their first fight at 37 (show me some others who fought their first fight at 37), loses only one fight (where they got punched in the head after the round ended repeatedly) against someone who tested positive for drugs in their next fight and went onto the UFC.

What happened if she started at 30... or 26.
 

ashep

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Can't believe the AFL actually made the right call for a change.

Nothing against transgender people, but seriously this stuff is getting out of hand now. The advantage is just way too big.
Exactly what "stuff" is getting out of hand?

The overwhelming number of transgender athletes at senior level?
 

jdz101

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Dont understand the decision not allowed to play in the AFLW but is allowed to play in a local league.

Would it not stand to reason that she would be less dominant in the higher level AFLW than a local league?
You don't understand the difference between the zero consequences from her physically dominating a local league to the significant consequences of her physically dominating a far reaching professional league that affects the livelihoods of many?

That's reasonably short-sighted.
 

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Perhaps because if Hannah was playing a womens professional contact sport, she would be utilizing a physique that she built while being a man to get an advantage on the competition?

190cm / 100kg is larger than a lot of the athletes in the male professional competition. You seriously don't see that she would have an obvious physical advantage over the entire female competition as a ruck/forward?
You are 100% correct and think of this, as the AFLW becomes more professional and is big $$$$ driven the desire for teams to field the best team will be to recruit as many Hannahs as possible.
 

JoshWoodenSpoon

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This isnt SRP and it certainly isnt Breitbart.

'SJW' trolling, calling or inferring that transgender people are 'disgusting' or referring to a transgender person that identifies as a she 'He' is going to get you thread banned, infacted or worse.

Ive tried to steer you away. Last warning.

I will not be merciful.
Thank you!
 

The_Wookie

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Hannah's a she. Because she says she's a she.
Everyone in this thread should be warned - this is going to be the position of the active moderating team on Bigfooty - see also Malifice 's comment . It IS possible to carry on a discussion in a respectful manner without resorting to disparaging and hurtful remarks. Ill remind you all that transgender folks exist as an active part of our Bigfooty community.
 
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