Play Nice First transgender player in the AFLW

[Nomad12]

Wtf im not a fan of the aflw but this is unfair to the actual girls training their ass off and never get his bone structure. Political correctness gone insane

Couldnt of said it better. WTF

 

[Jako Darling]

What maximum height do you suggest we ban players in the AFLW .

She was never a man so that is irrelevant.

 

[Bostonian]

A pre op trans woman can achieve massive spikes in their testosterone levels simply by not taking their testosterone blocker. I suggest neither the AFL has appropriate testing procedures for this.

Once post op this is not possible as testosterone production is nil to minimal.

Cheers.

So pre-op it will allow an athlete to maintain a certain size simply by missing a cycle of blockers. That does seem like an area that could be abused somewhat for personal gain in a football sense.

Are pre-op players allowed to play in women's leagues? Apologies if you've answered this previously.

 

[Chameleon75]

My point is that men lose muscle mass as they age too. Comparing your own physique now to your physique in your 20s is unlikely to be a result purely of the the hormone therapies and transition. It's also the effects of aging.

A 25 year old trans woman is likely to have a lot more muscle than a 25 year old biological woman.

Men loose muscle mass as they age because there's a natural decline in testosterone.

 

[King Brown]

Lauren Jackson is 196cm and plus 100kg should she be banned from women's sports as well she is half a whole foot bigger then Hannah.

A foot is 30 cm. Jackson is only 6cm taller than Mouncey, and is unusually tall for a woman.

 

[kirsti]

I don't have the answer to that.

Can you not see a situation where a trans player could make a mockery of a women's competition if they are too physically imposing?

I understand you've explained how estrogen will strip them of some of that size but if they are several years into treatment and are still young, fit and big then what?

What about the young women they are playing against? Do we not have to consider the image of the league and the impact is has on non-trans women or young girls coming up through the football ranks?

Insteas of a blanket policy for all especially only being 12 months of testosterone reduction I suggest each trans person should be also tested individually. I suggest the age of the person at the time of transition,
pre muscle mass and oxygen capacity levels should be considered on an individual bases.

I suggest that until better testing becomes available pre op trans athletes should not compete at the elite level of any sport.

I also suggest that the 12 months minimum period of appropriate hormone levels be increased to three years minimum.

I agree Kirsti Miller pre op with only 12 months testosterone reduction would have physically dominated and female football game.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Lauren Jackson is 196cm and plus 100kg should she be banned from women's sports as well she is half a whole foot bigger then Hannah.

Did you ever think why we still have small players. Maybe a players is shorter but a lot quicker or even stronger.

I just googled Lauren Jackson's playing weight and it was 86 kg, not sure where you got 100 kg from. Not really a compelling argument.

So, as you say half a foot shorter but an extra 14 kg of body mass, are there any current players who have come close to those figures? Genuine question as I don't know

i'll say it again, I'm not sure how I'd feel if my daughter was lining up next to the player in question.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

A foot is 30 cm. Jackson is only 6cm taller than Mouncey, and is unusually tall for a woman.

Yes, Jackson was a fair bit taller but still about 14 kg's lighter. Not a great argument at all, a bit of research would have been good

 

[kirsti]

A foot is 30 cm. Jackson is only 6cm taller than Mouncey, and is unusually tall for a woman.

Sorry bad at maths but there are a lot of 190cm plus women playing sport, our ruck in my team is 6 ft 3 and she is a cisgender female. Height alone I suggest is no reason to ban any female player.

 

[SizeMatters]

If this comes to fruition the AFLW will lose all credibility. I very much enjoy the league but will refuse to watch it or support it if this Hannah gets put on a list. Insanely unfair.

 

[King Brown]

Sorry bad at maths but there are a lot of 190cm plus women playing sport, our ruck in my team is 6 ft 3 and she is a cisgender female. Height alone I suggest is no reason to ban any female player.

No, I don't think height alone is either.

But height, weight, muscle mass, bone structure and other masculine qualities are reason enough in combination.

But I don't think anyone can be convinced either way. Let her play and let the results decide.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

I don't think most of the girls in the WAFL would GAF, most of em would out play the average male anyway, they are elite athletes.

 

[kirsti]

Yes, Jackson was a fair bit taller but still about 14 kg's lighter. Not a great argument at all, a bit of research would have been good

Sarah Perkins current playing weight is 95kgs should she be banned because she is 40 plus kilograms heavier then some of her opponents. Sarah has lost 30 plus kilograms in the last 12 months at one time she was 80 kgs heavier then some of her opponents.

Sarah unlike Hannah is not having her testosterone levels stopped or reduced Hannah Mouncey has done so for almost double the time required of a trans player.

 

[ydraw]

I don't think most of the girls in the WAFL would GAF, most of em would out play the average male anyway, they are elite athletes.

Women in other sports certainly GAF. It's a very contentious issue in all women's sports.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport...er-competing-for-commonwealth-games-spot.html

http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/30/trans-weightlifter-destroys-female-competitors-again/

The trans woman is absolutely destroying the competition in her division - lifting 10kgs more than all the women in her division. They don't think it's fair at all and certainly "GAF".

Some said Hubbard, as a biological male, had an unfair advantage over the other women, while his competitors seemed displeased with his triumph.

“We all deserve to be on an even playing field,” Deborah Acason, from the Australian Weightlifting Federation, told 1News Now. “It’s difficult when you believe that you’re not. If it’s not even, why are we doing the sport?”

The Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand adheres to the policy created by the International Olympic Committee (ICE). The ICE only recognizes two genders, male and female. Therefore transgender men are seen as men and transgender woman are considered women.

Transgender women must prove that their testosterone has been below 10 (nanomoles per litre) for at least a year before they compete.

 

[eels]

Sarah Perkins current playing weight is 95kgs should she be banned because she is 40 plus kilograms heavier then some of her opponents. Sarah has lost 30 plus kilograms in the last 12 months at one time she was 80 kgs heavier then some of her opponents.

Sarah unlike Hannah is not having her testosterone levels stopped or reduced Hannah Mouncey has done so for almost double the time required of a trans player.

It wouldn't matter if they were the exact same weight, or the transgender person weighed less. Males are composed differently to females. Pound for pound, males have an advantage.

 

[eels]

I have no idea what your problem is, but you'll need to extend kirsti some common courtesy if you'd like to keep posting in this thread.

Sorry.

 

[demondavey]

I have shared some pictures of myself pre transition to show the massive effects hormone replacement therapy has on a transgender women's body. Pre transition I was 100kg former international Modern Pentathlete now I am 58 kg wringing wet and I have played women's AFL and soccer since 2013.

I am happy to discuss my personal experiences as I am very well aware transgender athletes competing as their confirmed gender remains a very contentious issue.

View attachment 412273

Can I ask why you made the change?

 

[kirsti]

No, I don't think height alone is either.

But height, weight, muscle mass, bone structure and other masculine qualities are reason enough in combination.

But I don't think anyone can be convinced either way. Let her play and let the results decide.

I am advocating with sporting organisations to review their current policies as I feel 12 months testosterone reduction is not enough to over turn the advantages of male puberty. I am the cofounder of a transgender sports persons advocacy group. This group includes both trans athletes and health professionals. Some of our members have competed in sport after transition some dating back to the 1980's.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Sarah Perkins current playing weight is 95kgs should she be banned because she is 40 plus kilograms heavier then some of her opponents. Sarah has lost 30 plus kilograms in the last 12 months at one time she was 80 kgs heavier then some of her opponents.

Sarah unlike Hannah is not having her testosterone levels stopped or reduced Hannah Mouncey has done so for almost double the time required of a trans player.

Nice work at completely avoiding my response to you.

I'm not sure if you were just wrong or if you made it up to try and make your argument look better, either way it failed dismally.

I'll say it yet again, i'm not sure how I'd feel about my daughter lining up against this person in a full contact sport.

 

[eels]

Nice work at completely avoiding my response to you.

I'm not sure if you were just wrong or if you made it up to try and make your argument look better, either way it failed dismally.

I'll say it yet again, i'm not sure how I'd feel about my daughter lining up against this person in a full contact sport.

You'd probably feel like it was dangerous and almost like violence against women.

 

[kirsti]

Can I ask why you made the change?

I knew from a very early age that I felt different but like everyone else I didn't want to be different.

I grew up in Wagga Wagga and became an inaugural sporting hall of fame athlete for 3 separate sports. I had a male body that most men would only ever dream to have. I couldn't look at my body my whole life especially when puberty hit. In my early 30's I contemplated ending my life rather then be honest with my wife and kids to who I truly was.

I am very happy I survived my gender dysphoria I am 52 years of age now and I have seven beautiful grandchildren, three daughters that still have a great parent.

 

[Bostonian]

Insteas of a blanket policy for all especially only being 12 months of testosterone reduction I suggest each trans person should be also tested individually. I suggest the age of the person at the time of transition,
pre muscle mass and oxygen capacity levels should be considered on an individual bases.

I suggest that until better testing becomes available pre op trans athletes should not compete at the elite level of any sport.

I also suggest that the 12 months minimum period of appropriate hormone levels be increased to three years minimum.

I agree Kirsti Miller pre op with only 12 months testosterone reduction would have physically dominated and female football game.

Have you forwarded such suggestions to the AFL? They obviously need some input.

As I said I have no answers to how to deal with a large physically dominant trans women should they happen along.

I just feel with the league in its infancy and so many young women wanting to get to that league it feels like throwing a young giant like Hannah into the mix really isn't the right idea at this stage because no matter how hard some young women train they just can't match that kind of physical presence.

Even as a male 6 2 and 90kgs is a fair sized unit among the rank and file public. Throwing someone that large who isn't that far along from being a male up against young women seems a tad unfair.

 

[kirsti]

Nice work at completely avoiding my response to you.

I'm not sure if you were just wrong or if you made it up to try and make your argument look better, either way it failed dismally.

I'll say it yet again, i'm not sure how I'd feel about my daughter lining up against this person in a full contact sport.

If I missed a question of yours please ask again I have been pretty busy and being very open and honest and I definitely have avoided your question on purpose.

 

[Bostonian]

I am advocating with sporting organisations to review their current policies as I feel 12 months testosterone reduction is not enough to over turn the advantages of male puberty. I am the cofounder of a transgender sports persons advocacy group. This group includes both trans athletes and health professionals. Some of our members have competed in sport after transition some dating back to the 1980's.

From your working out there in the communities how many trans AFL players would you say are out there? Enough to have a team representing each state regularly?

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Women in other sports certainly GAF. It's a very contentious issue in all women's sports.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport...er-competing-for-commonwealth-games-spot.html

http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/30/trans-weightlifter-destroys-female-competitors-again/

The trans woman is absolutely destroying the competition in her division - lifting 10kgs more than all the women in her division. They don't think it's fair at all and certainly "GAF".

I said in the AFLW, i can see how it would cause problems in Athletics-weightlifting etc, simply for the fact any transgender who won a title would be labled as a cheat, but how many transgender people don't win titles?