Player Watch Fischer McAsey - Steps Away from Football, Not Returning

[Jeffcrowe]

Prep and whatever else we aren't privvy to.

After the first year surely it's considered out of Hamish's hands?

Not entirely

He’s been shown to lack the competiveness and motivation to get better that you expect in a top 10 pick

The mental side of football is something these recruiters give as much thought to as physical performance , this is why they do so much research , do so many interviews , background checks and psych interviews

And it’s a fail in that regard

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Just playing devil’s advocate - the whole process of rebuilding relies on identifying and nurturing talent. Obviously McAsey didn’t stink it up in his first year by a 19yo KPP’s standards, but he wasn’t exactly a world beater either. If he was able to play out most of the year without needing to be moved about, got a RS nom etc, then produced the same 2nd/3rd years he has, then we could definitely pin a lot of it it on the coaches

We’re not privy to a lot of behind the scenes stuff so it’s admittedly hard to make concrete judgements, but surely there has to be some element of the recruiting team getting the talent ID wrong

For instance (and I’ll admit my judgement here was incorrect, too) - McAsey won Metro MVP. But the KPF competition he faced in the champs for instance wasn’t very strong at all, on reflection - in fact, no real KPF’s got selected in the U18 AA team, and the only non-VM guys you could really call KPFs that got drafted in the top 40 were Georgiades (injured most of his 18th year) and Comben (played as a ruck in the champs)

Not that McAsey didn’t impress, he wouldn’t have gotten drafted nearly as high as he did otherwise - just some random thoughts, on reflection

Fair points

It’s a combo of his physical traits and just as much mental IMO

 

[Ramify]

Not entirely

He’s been shown to lack the competiveness and motivation to get better that you expect in a top 10 pick

The mental side of football is something these recruiters give as much thought to as physical performance , this is why they do so much research , do so many interviews , background checks and psych interviews

And it’s a fail in that regard

That's assuming mental stability is linear, and that Football cant be knocked from No #1 on any talented kids priority list, at any given minute. This simply isn't the case.


I'd love to see just one example of a sporting organisation around the country that has a fail safe methodology for forecasting the future mental health status of potential recruits. It just doest exist.

Mentality directly correlates to positive output in every profession.

People heaping praise o Rahilly for Fogs emergence are seriously underselling the external "Life" Coaching he underwent during the course of the year.

These kids are often the best of the best from the age of 12-13. From there,Football is a mental.

 

[Ramify]

Fair points

It’s a combo of his physical traits and just as much mental IMO

I'm glad you see this, but I'd say 90%+ mental.

You only have to think back to how many Uber-skilled players you've watched in absolute shithouse grades over the years, and question why they never make it over spuds in the AFL who can't hit the side of a barn, let alone use their opposite foot. Answer = Mental/Mentality.

 

[Ramify]

Not entirely

He’s been shown to lack the competiveness and motivation to get better that you expect in a top 10 pick

The mental side of football is something these recruiters give as much thought to as physical performance , this is why they do so much research , do so many interviews , background checks and psych interviews

And it’s a fail in that regard

Mate, I appreciate your insights into Jrs etc, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think clubs put even a 10th of the effort into psychological profiling players as they do on the physical aspects of the sport. I'd say they weight "the vibe" and combine results higher than any 2× 1hr personality assessments they procure.

It's a logistical impossibility.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

That's assuming mental stability is linear, and that Football cant be knocked from No #1 on any talented kids priority list, at any given minute. This simply isn't the case.


I'd love to see just one example of a sporting organisation around the country that has a fail safe methodology for forecasting the future mental health status of potential recruits. It just doest exist.

Mentality directly correlates to positive output in every profession.

People heaping praise o Rahilly for Fogs emergence are seriously underselling the external "Life" Coaching he underwent during the course of the year.

These kids are often the best of the best from the age of 12-13. From there,Football is a mental.

Agree Nothing is fail safe but they do alot of work in this space so no doubt will look back over it in this case to see if there was anything they can learn from

Will never know but I wonder how he would have gone if drafted to a vic club and lived in his home state

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Mate, I appreciate your insights into Jrs etc, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think clubs put even a 10th of the effort into psychological profiling players as they do on the physical aspects of the sport. I'd say they weight "the vibe" and combine results higher than any 2× 1hr personality assessments they procure.

It's a logistical impossibility.

I know for a fact they barely look at combine results , it just reinforces some of the stuff they see on field . The main things about the combines are the chances to see the kids interact and interview them

The character and mental stuff is valued much higher , they spend so much time on it

I’m not saying they are always accurate , but no doubt they inspire to be as accurate in that space as possible because anyone at that level has talent

 

[Tas]

Vary the cap to equalise the teams, let players nominate what states they are prepared to play in

We need more transparency before we can look at equalisation. Our system is horribly flawed.

Another 15 Carlton players were paid by Visy this year to be environmental ambassadors

More Blues on Visy payroll

www.foxsports.com.au

These payments are off-cap. Geelong does the same thing, as does Richmond and a few other clubs.

 

[Cap]

Is there any clue on what's happened ?

 

[Thetrader15]

Who was the last player we drafted that showed absolutely nothing at AFL level in their first year but turned it around?

You'd have to go back pretty far I reckon

Doedee.

Don't forget Dawson only played 5 games in his first 3 years...Swans had a little more patience than some on here.

 

[Sanders]

I didn't like the pick at the time, and have story has vindicated that.

We could have Serong.

And im supposed to accept that the pick was fine because of 'mock drafts' am I?

We pay professional recruitment teams to do better than internet wannabes. They're paid to get it right.

It’s about calibrating the argument. It’s untrue to suggest no one thought he was a player in the range he was taken.

However, around 50% of first round picks bust or severely disappoint, despite no one ever predicting ahead of times (so much for the draft watchers); the job is to be in the right half more often than other clubs

We have not been better than other clubs, and that’s why we haven’t been very good on field

He was/is a bad pick. The problem is he isn’t the only one

 

[Brenton Davy]

Majority? You MADE that up

Prove otherwise…

 

[Sanders]

Prove otherwise…

That burden is yours

 

[George Kramer]

Prove otherwise…

Wow, that’s pathetic. You made the claim Wally, it’s up to you to prove it

 

[Southerntakeover]

It’s about calibrating the argument. It’s untrue to suggest no one thought he was a player in the range he was taken.

However, around 50% of first round picks bust or severely disappoint, despite no one ever predicting ahead of times (so much for the draft watchers); the job is to be in the right half more often than other clubs

We have not been better than other clubs, and that’s why we haven’t been very good on field

He was/is a bad pick. The problem is he isn’t the only one

Absolutely - distinguishing amongst the highly rated is literally the skill being paid for.

I additionally judge it poorly for positional value. If you're drafting a key defender that high you'd better be absolutely certain this is a special player. Busting on one with pick six, and noones accountable?

 

[crow2crow]

Absolutely - distinguishing amongst the highly rated is literally the skill being paid for.

I additionally judge it poorly for positional value. If you're drafting a key defender that high you'd better be absolutely certain this is a special player. Busting on one with pick six, and noones accountable?

Hamish constantly going on about "comes from a good family" is going to haunt us. nice is the last thing we need

we need to target mongrels who want to tear each other apart

 

[Sanders]

Absolutely - distinguishing amongst the highly rated is literally the skill being paid for.

I additionally judge it poorly for positional value. If you're drafting a key defender that high you'd better be absolutely certain this is a special player. Busting on one with pick six, and noones accountable?

We traded back from 4 to 6, on the basis we still got who we wanted.

If we listened to the usual cloud cuckoo landers, and that he would still have been available later, then it’s reasonable to suggest we’d have traded back further

The issue is that we shouldn’t have wanted him at all

 

[Southerntakeover]

We traded back from 4 to 6, on the basis we still got who we wanted.

If we listened to the usual cloud cuckoo landers, and that he would still have been available later, then it’s reasonable to suggest we’d have traded back further

The issue is that we shouldn’t have wanted him at all

Agree- and the margin of the miss is even greater having regard to what they ought to have thought he was to pick him there.

Like, if you're me you have to think a key defender borders on generational to justify picking him in that range.

To think you're getting that and get sub AFL quality?

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

It is hard to say how much of the Fischer Disaster was bad judgement and how much was bad luck.

Firstly we were forced to play Fischer before he was AFL ready. Imagine the uproar if he went through 2020 without playing a single game at any level (due to Covid/the inability for our Kids to play in the SANFL).

The Covid lockdowns must have been incredibly difficult for our new recruits. In addition, the health of Fischer’s father would have added to his ordeal. It is not surprising that he has struggled with depression and it is a pity for his sake that we couldn’t arrange a trade for him.

I have watched Fischer quite a lot at SANFL games this year and I felt it was very unlikely that he would ever play AFL for us in the future.

 

[Brenton Davy]

That burden is yours

Wow, that’s pathetic. You made the claim Wally, it’s up to you to prove it

You want to dispute it. Onus is on you

 

[conVINCEd]

You want to dispute it. Onus is on you

You’re disputing his disputing of your claim.

So by your own reasoning, onus is now back on you.

 

[Sanders]

You want to dispute it. Onus is on you

Yeah, that’s not how it works.

Fact is you made a silly, untrue claim that you can’t remotely justify because you just made it up.

 

[George Kramer]

Yeah, that’s not how it works.

Fact is you made a silly, untrue claim that you can’t remotely justify because you just made it up.

He did feel good doing it though

 

[CrowToon]

Mate, I appreciate your insights into Jrs etc, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think clubs put even a 10th of the effort into psychological profiling players as they do on the physical aspects of the sport. I'd say they weight "the vibe" and combine results higher than any 2× 1hr personality assessments they procure.

It's a logistical impossibility.

I have no idea what recruiters actually pay attention to (punch a cone then throw a dart at the whiteboard?) but if they aren't paying attention to the mental side of things then they are negligent in their duties.

There is a mental health tidal wave crashing through society and has been for 10-15 years thanks to social media and the like button. Draftees are right in that vulnerable window and professional sport places extra expectations on those young people which can magnify any existing issues.

The mental side, and impact of a negative mind space, of any sport has a clear research base (still developing) so as I say, if AFL recruiters really are not paying attention to this stuff then more fool them.

Of course they cannot predict what may happen in this space but they can't predict success based off your vertical leap or 2km time trial either.

 

[crow2crow]

It is hard to say how much of the Fischer Disaster was bad judgement and how much was bad luck.

Firstly we were forced to play Fischer before he was AFL ready. Imagine the uproar if he went through 2020 without playing a single game at any level (due to Covid/the inability for our Kids to play in the SANFL).

The Covid lockdowns must have been incredibly difficult for our new recruits. In addition, the health of Fischer’s father would have added to his ordeal. It is not surprising that he has struggled with depression and it is a pity for his sake that we couldn’t arrange a trade for him.

I have watched Fischer quite a lot at SANFL games this year and I felt it was very unlikely that he would ever play AFL for us in the future.

thry tried to get him a trade but nobody wants him thats what's causing the problems

why aren't they bringing some support to him for 6 months to see if that helps

answer: they've likely given up but wont say publicly. its a massive shsme definitely has some raw ability