Fitzroy supporters who do you support now?

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Where are you getting this from? I can quite categorically state that no vote of the Fitzroy members was ever undertaken regarding a merger with North Melbourne. This is completely made up by you. I've told you this before but you continue to ignore it.

The merger had been in the media since early May, the supporters had a lot of time to consider it and it was the desired outcome from the supporters and they voiced their opinions clearly both at the grounds and in the media, you would have to be out of touch with the supporters and reality to believe anything else. There was no formal vote, but there didn't need to be one as we were the only club willing to offer anything other than a takeover deal.

Very conveniently omitting that on the 18th June 1996, North Melbourne tried to maximise their own position in the merger by trying to change the previously agreed name from "Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos". Then on the 2nd July 1996 North also tried to get the amount of Fitzroy directors on the merged board reduced to four from the originally agreed six. North of course would retain six directors and would therefore be able to outvote the four Fitzroy directors on any matter. Fitzroy were told by North unless they agreed to the revised terms the merger would not take place.

I'm not omitting anything, both our clubs agreed to those modifications and it was still significantly better than anything anyone else had offered.

Them... Ours... Yours... Mine... It was about putting the best board together for the future.

Fitzroy board and administration were primarily at fault for the demise of the club, anyone retained was purely symbolic, board members change, none of our board members at the time are still with us now so how critical is it really? We were in a similar boat but we had a substantially better relationship with our creditors and a significant part in that is leadership.

When our social club went bankrupt, as a separate legal entity our legal advice was to let it fold and to leave creditors unpaid, yet we underwrote the social club and all creditors were paid out. Despite our issues, we still had good relations with our lenders and creditors. It would have been diabolical to give equal representation and authority to people who had just offered Nauru 42 cents in the dollar for their loan, which was the catalyst for them appointing Ernst and Young to recover their debt in full.

The only thing that mattered was getting the supporter bases united, it would have been roughly a 50/50 split and at the end of the day, future board positions would be representative of the united supporter base.

And North needs to take a fair bit of blame for the failure of the merger. If North really wanted the merger they had it virtually signed and sealed. Then they dropped the ball. Whether that was primairily due to their own gullibility in believing the AFL or whether it was simply greed in trying to maximise their own position in the merger at the expense of Fitzroy is a matter of debate. Probably both.

Absolutely, but what was critical was combining the supporter bases, when the dust settles, it is these people who have the power to choose board members or make any other changes to the club.

Fitzroy opened Pandora's box by entertaining the Brisbane Bears, and once that had become a considered option, AFL made it a reality by hook or by crook.

Selective mining of the facts here. That was a reason given by North to justify their proposal of maximising their majority on the new merged board. See above.

Again, largely pointless because you didn't get a better offer and in the grand scheme of things wouldn't matter as it would be the collective members voting for positions in the future.

Dyson Hore-Lacy and most of the Fitzroy board didn't want Brisbane. His preference was always (and that was a matter of public record) to merge with a Melbourne based club.

Ultimately, approaching Brisbane and attempting to play them off was the death knell.

Supporters didn't have to accept that outcome, obviously, not all of them did and there was a backlash post mortem but none of that mattered in the end.

Why would a Brisbane merger be better for Dyson Hore-Lacy? He has had virtually nothing to do with the Brisbane Lions. By his own choice. It wasn't Dyson Hore-Lacy that negotiated a 'merger' with Brisbane.

He was the one who brought Brisbane into the picture and nothing they offered was remotely comparable to what we offered, which is why North was still his preferred option, but he had already let the wolves in the door. I can't believe that he was simply that naive.

None of the Fitzroy board in 1996 has been involved with the Brisbane Lions. Their preference was to merge with North. Once the administrator was appointed on June 28th, (in part due to the prevarication of North Melbourne) any actual power the Fitzroy board had to influence the choice of merger partner was gone.

Administrator was appointed before the 28th. You know why the administrator was appointed, right? Fitzroy had offered Naru 42 cents in the dollar on their debt, Nauru Insurance Corp rejected it and appointed Ernst & Young administrator to collect the full debt. AFL had underwritten any additional debt Fitzroy would accumulate between then and the 28th. Any deal that didn't have Nauru being paid in full was going to be vetoed by the administrators.

AFL threw petrol on the fire by raising the possibility of stripping Fitzroy of it's licence due to being insolvent, and granting a temporary licence to a shelf-company that would acquire the Fitzroy players until the end of the season, but wouldn't be burdened by having to deal with Fitzroy's existing creditors. This news was seen by the administrator and creditors as the AFL move to undermine their position, while it may have been legal was not ethical.

The Age reported on July 2nd that the AFL had given Fitzroy until 5 July to consummate a merger with North and satisfy its creditors or the league would withdraw all funding and leave the club to die.

AFL scheduled a meeting of the clubs on July 4, 11 of the then 16 clubs had to support the merger for it to proceed. All the media had been reporting that the North-Fitzroy merger was inevitable.

Despite our list and salary cap being in line with the package the AFL had offered to clubs willing to merge, all of a sudden the day before the meeting there was a lot of noise at club level, that club presidents were worried about a super team being created, despite Fitzroy being almost picked clean of talent over the years.

The AFL had been undermining the deal ever since DHL brought Brisbane to the table, the usual suspects at the Age and the Sun were putting out AFL propaganda.

Ernst and Young said they would approve the North-Fitzroy merger, as the creditors would be paid in full, all that was required was for the clubs to vote for the merger to proceed. Come the 5th of July and 14 of the 15 clubs voted against the merger, this was with the same list package that the same clubs voted yes for between Hawthorn and Melbourne.

There was no talk of any other merger being voted on, but all these presidents voted no, in anticipation that the Brisbane-Fitzroy option would then be tabled. Brisbane's offer had a reduced Fitzroy playing complement, only taking 8 players. We offered to match the same number of players, as Fitzroy had a forgettable list of players at that point anyway, we just wanted there to be more than a token number of Fitzroy players but if that was an obstacle (despite the first offer being in accordance with the AFL package) we were prepared to reduce the numbers. The Age reported that after several meetings between the AFL commission and officials from North and Brisbane, North Melbourne was informed that the commission believed that a merger with Brisbane was in the best interests of the national competition... even though the mergers were intended to merge smaller Melbourne clubs to make stronger Melbourne clubs. Another vote was held and the presidents approved of it only because Brisbane was a lot weaker than we were that year, even though the nuts and bolts of our offer was identical to Brisbane on paper, we were giving Fitzroy greater representation. The AFL basically decided who you were going to merge with and had orchestrated it and like self-interested patsies, the other clubs allowed their own insecurities to be stoked by the AFL to induce a short-term decision from what was to be a lifetime commitment.

This all transpired because DHL let the wolves in the door.

Oh, lets not forget in another show of lack of class, Footscray was prepared to take legal action against a North-Fitzroy merger because Fitzroy had an agreement with Footscray to play from their shithole oval for 20 years. Way to go putting the foot down on the dying club, really thought long and hard about what was best for the Fitzroy supporters.

Do you? On what basis? I don't think you have much idea of his involvement in the 'saga'.

I don't think he intended it to pan out the way he did, but bringing Brisbane to the table for minor petty issues ultimately is what resulted in the AFL undermining them.

Fitzroy supporters don't have to follow anyone. It's up to the Brisbane Lions to make their club as attractive as possible to Fitzroy supporters. As such Fitzroy supporters will ultimately decide for themselves whether they wish to follow the club. Many have, many haven't. Completely their choice. Not the AFL's. not Brisbane's. As for the Fitzroy board, they didn't support the merger with Brisbane at all, so I'm not sure how or why you're making that claim.

Fitzroy supporters were basically told to go support Brisbane and it was basically for the good of the game that you prop up the Bears. The fact anyone did so was surprising and it reiterates my view of gullibility.

Correct. And of all 18 AFL clubs, which has the most to do with Fitzroy?

Well, we were the only club to vote yes, ever other club voted to * over Fitzroy supporters because North was the flag favourite that year, what a bunch of short-sighted morons.

Next time Fat Eddie bemoans the fate of Fitzroy, ask him why his club opposed the merger. I wouldn't support any club that voted to screw me over.
 
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Most SA fans had a VFL team as well. Mine was Fitzroy, with a soft spot for Carlton as a Sturt fan (Carlton's light blue Guernsey was great by the way).
When the Crows came in 1991 I swapped over but kept a soft spot for the Lions in the crossover and was sorry to see them go. No feelings for Brisbane though unless they're playing Port, as with all the other sides
 

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The early 90s produced some cracking games between the Crows and Fitzroy. I was at the clash at Footy Park in 91 when Jamo kicked the goal after the siren and then again in 93 when the crows won by 1 point.. Fitzroy led by 5 goals during the 3rd qrt before Modra went crazy and got the crows back into the game.
I remember reading on another thread similar to this one and most Fitzroy fans either supported the the "merger" and followed the Brisbane lions, some followed North Melb and a lot gave up supporting a team altogether.

There was one Crows v Fitzroy game that is the only time I've genuinely thought the umpires were consciously favouring one side over the other. Roys leading in the last quarter, then Adelaide get free after free after free, and 50m penalties, to drag them over the line. It was utterly disgraceful stuff.
 
It is probably because I was at the 1983 game where they belted off us the park as a kid, but I never liked Fitzroy supporters. There were other games where they acted like coctopuses as well.

Now are the kind of like the footy version of the children of Syria.
 
There was one Crows v Fitzroy game that is the only time I've genuinely thought the umpires were consciously favouring one side over the other. Roys leading in the last quarter, then Adelaide get free after free after free, and 50m penalties, to drag them over the line. It was utterly disgraceful stuff.

 
http://vuir.vu.edu.au/344/1/07chapter6.pdf

This is part of a thesis done by Nicholson, Matthew (2002) Print media representation of crisis events in Australian football. PhD thesis, Victoria University.

Not sure how accurate it is but it details what was reported in those times.

Looks fairly accurate, certainly close to how I remember it going down.

Also remember the North Melbourne players being so filthy with the AFL and Ross Oakley that not one player or official shook Oakley's hand after they won the Grand Final that year. If you watch the replay every single player laughs and jokes with Jack Dyer as they accept their medal and Oakley stands on the dais ignored by all 22 players including Carey and Pagan when they accept the Cup.
 
They did leave the AFL.

Trademarks, such as the Lion logo, were owned by the AFL, not Fitzroy.
Ah, that's the part I didn't know. I assumed Fitzroy owned their trademarks and opted to give them up. Didn't realise that the AFL owned them. When did they acquire them? Prior to merger talks?
 
I have forgotten about the result but not Modras moment :)

For the short span of playing each other Fitzroy and Adelaide had some great games:
- 1991: The Absolute Murder game which was a heart breaker for yours truly
- 1992: A close Fitzroy win put the Roys into the Pre-Season Grand Final - when it still meant something.
- 1993: Two classic matches decided by less than a goal. And yes Modra's moment for good reckoning.
- 1994: A heated Pre-Season match with some argy-bargy between Fitzroy coach Robert Shaw and Adelaide's Chris McDermott
- 1995: Fitzroy's second last win with a stunning upset at Football Park.
- 1996: The Jarman brothers combining for a huge goal haul at Whitten Oval
 
For the short span of playing each other Fitzroy and Adelaide had some great games:
- 1991: The Absolute Murder game which was a heart breaker for yours truly
- 1992: A close Fitzroy win put the Roys into the Pre-Season Grand Final - when it still meant something.
- 1993: Two classic matches decided by less than a goal. And yes Modra's moment for good reckoning.
- 1994: A heated Pre-Season match with some argy-bargy between Fitzroy coach Robert Shaw and Adelaide's Chris McDermott
- 1995: Fitzroy's second last win with a stunning upset at Football Park.
- 1996: The Jarman brothers combining for a huge goal haul at Whitten Oval

Add in Robert Shaw coming to coach the Crows in 95/96 via Fitzroy
 

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There was one Crows v Fitzroy game that is the only time I've genuinely thought the umpires were consciously favouring one side over the other. Roys leading in the last quarter, then Adelaide get free after free after free, and 50m penalties, to drag them over the line. It was utterly disgraceful stuff.

Oh geez, I remember watching that as a fitzroy supporter as a child. I think someone has uploaded it to Youtube as well. It was an absolute disgrace, I don't think I've seen anything quite like it since.

EDIT: Someone already posted it haha.
 
By the end of 1996 I was too heart broken to actively follow the soulless AFL or another AFL team. Equally I maintained full respect for respective decisions made by individual Fitzroy supporters. Nonetheless there was a apparent void and this was filled in 1998 with the arrival of the Melbourne Storm. In fact in that initial year of the Storm there was plenty of Fitzroy colours evident amongst the crowd. As Fitzroy began fielding teams in the VAFA I was slow to jump onboard in fear of raising suppressed demons. However upon visiting Brunswick Street Oval I quickly discovered, or rediscovered, the team I held so dear. I love heading along to this brilliant suburban ground filled with history on a Saturday afternoon to watch blokes in the Fitzroy jumper play for their club, their teammates and the love of the game.
 
I was 12 when we merged so didn’t really have a great clue what was going on. But, I almost went to Carlton or north Melbourne. But, bless my grandpa who goes for Collingwood said “stick with the lions... something will happen” so I did.
 
Looks fairly accurate, certainly close to how I remember it going down.

Also remember the North Melbourne players being so filthy with the AFL and Ross Oakley that not one player or official shook Oakley's hand after they won the Grand Final that year. If you watch the replay every single player laughs and jokes with Jack Dyer as they accept their medal and Oakley stands on the dais ignored by all 22 players including Carey and Pagan when they accept the Cup.

Cheers.

Never ever saw that presentation. 22 years on I should be able to watch it now. I have heard about the snub though. Good on em.
 
Oh geez, I remember watching that as a fitzroy supporter as a child. I think someone has uploaded it to Youtube as well. It was an absolute disgrace, I don't think I've seen anything quite like it since.

EDIT: Someone already posted it haha.

Nah, I remember watching it with the old man and he was livid. He was convinced the AFL had ordered the umps to ensure their new love child Adelaide won at to keep Fitzroy down and ripe for the noose.

Nearly 30 years later I don't think he was wrong.
 
Cheers.

Never ever saw that presentation. 22 years on I should be able to watch it now. I have heard about the snub though. Good on em.

I think one of them gave Oakley a mouthful, which may have been Schwass as he and Carey were the most cognisant of the situation being Captain and Vice.
 
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Interesting that some players in the mid 80's could sense the trouble and were in favour of relocating even at that time.
 
http://vuir.vu.edu.au/344/1/07chapter6.pdf

This is part of a thesis done by Nicholson, Matthew (2002) Print media representation of crisis events in Australian football. PhD thesis, Victoria University.

Not sure how accurate it is but it details what was reported in those times.
Thanks for that... very sad read, in particular their constant failure to raise money, i never truly realised at the time how much more supported the bulldogs were, the media made it seem like we were on par in that regard. Probably why i was so sad and confused at the time, being still rather young, why the lions didn't just do what the dogs did.

Some of those media reports and articles regarding the lions and their supporters are so breathtakingly disrespectful if not outright malicious. The Patrick Smith article in particular got my ire up.
 
Yes, I would agree. There is little difference.

Probably the most shocking event I have witnessed in my life following football.

The demise of the Fitzroy football club, as it existed then, was a blatant act of cultural vandalism.

As much as I despise certain traditional clubs I would not wish the death of their AFL existence in any way.

Our footy clubs are one of the few intrinsic Australian icons that this nation possesses.
 
Good post Snake re the cultural aspect.

Kevin Murray was Captain Coach of my WAFL mob East Perth in 65/66 and being the much loved character
he was, I followed them from 1967 on.

Because of that I learnt about the the old gang "wars" between Collingwood, Richmond and Fitzroy supporters
and the tough slum areas that these people had to endure in and it gave real context to the history of the clubs.

Blokes playing footy on a Wednesday for a local side and on Saturday for a VFL team just to keep a family housed and fed.

And of course, the glory days of the 80's, Wilson, Quinlan, Conlan, Roos et al and the almost GF appearances made the final eviction sadder.
 
I know 3 that go for Brisbane,1 for North,1 for Hawthorn and 1 for Williamstown.
The North guy keeps an eye on the Reds in the VAFA,although personally I think they're a bit of a poor man's joke,but fair enough to him.
I certainly can't see how anyone could go for Brisbane and the Reds though,seems like a total contradiction.
 

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