Analysis Fix our drafting now. Picks 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 since 2013.

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StCicatriz

StCicatriz

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Aug 3, 2016
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You read that right. Our draft hand since 2013 has included Picks 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 since 2014. With only one out and out star in Max King and not one decent midfielder. imagine if we got picks 2, 9 and 10 to round out the first 10 picks!!!

We all made fun of Melbourne during the Bailey and Neeld years, but this is right up there with the depths they plumbed. Hell its giving the Gold Coast a decent shake there, although they've had even more currency to blow.

It's time we demand better results from our drafting.
 

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Can we possibly get a more irrelevant topic if most who were involved since many of those years have left. This another typical post to knock the club and you can guess those who join in Just out of interest how do supporters actually demand better. I can’t believe people actually think we can really do anything towards the club.
 
We just need to stop trying to find magical fixes to our issues.

Look at the top 3 or 4 on ground in premiership winning sides for as long as I can remember and the vast majority would be playing at the club that drafted them.

If we're in the business of winning a flag we need to forget this list as it's currently put together and start building a culture away from money hungry mercenaries and cast offs.
 
This definitely needs more context. Are we just looking at top 10 picks? I think it would be better to also include the players we brought in using some of our top 10 picks and then ask if those deals were in our favour or not.

2013 - Pick 3 (Jack Billings)
2014 - Pick 1 (Paddy McCartin). Melbourne had pick 2 and received pick 3 as compo for James Frawley - what a joke haha. Petracca & Brayshaw.
2015 - Pick 6 - Sent to Essendon for Carlisle and the pick that netted Gresham. Did we win this? Carlisle & Gresham for pick 6?
2016 - Nil
2017 - Pick 7 & 8 (Hunter Clark & Nick Coffield) - Too early to tell definitively but they were showing good signs, Coffield especially before the ACL. Pick 7 was a good get for us and made up for the lack of 1st rounder the year before.
2018 - Pick 4 (Max King) - Looks like he's going to be a gun.
2019 - Pick 6 - Sent to Adelaide as part of the Brad Hill deal. We also had pick 12, 14 and 20 at points during that period that were tied to Howard & Ryder deals. Did we win this?
2020 - Nil
2021 - Pick 11 (I know it's not 10 but close enough) - NWM. Too early to tell but from all reports he's already the best kick at the club and best kick from his draft so I guess plenty of potential?

The biggest issue I think for most clubs is the ridiculous academy and bidding system. It should be scrapped for the 1st round at least.

If you look at it in totality then it's;

Pick 3, 1, 6, 7, 8, 4, 6, 11* for;

Jack Billings
Paddy McCartin
Jake Carlisle
Jade Gresham
Hunter Clark
Nick Coffield
Max King
Brad Hill
Dougal Howard
Paddy Ryder
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera*

*Understand it's not top 10


8 picks for 11 players. Has it really been poor, or do we just need more of a look in in the top end of drafts? Only three top 5 picks in 9 drafts hurts, but We didn't completely bottom out like some other clubs did. If we were repeatedly a bottom four side I'm sure it'd be different.

For what it's worth I think our biggest issue is actually development. I also do think the drafting needs some work, not so much who we select but the positions we go after - I think it's pretty obvious now that our biggest weakness is in the midfield. NWM is a good step in the right direction and Clark/Coffield should be able to one day move through there but it's difficult to get ready made stars outside of the top 5 - which again we haven't had much access to in the last decade.
 
It's the work of two completely different people.

I'd argue our recent drafting has been decent. Clark and Coff are underrated because they weren't at their best or injured last year but were top 10 in the b and f in 2020. They'll both be very good players. Then King. And honestly I think Howard and Hill for 6, I'd still do that every day of the week.
 
lewdogs said:
It's the work of two completely different people.

I'd argue our recent drafting has been decent. Clark and Coff are underrated because they weren't at their best or injured last year but were top 10 in the b and f in 2020. They'll both be very good players. Then King. And honestly I think Howard and Hill for 6, I'd still do that every day of the week.
Click to expand...
I think so too. Since Clark/Coffield it's been good, we just need access to more picks. I haven't looked at it properly but can bet the Demons had access to more high end talent than we have over the last 10 years. Compensation, bottoming out, etc. We repeatedly finished outside the bottom four and it's probably hurt us.
 

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I’m starting to think drafting hasn’t been the issue, but player development is the issue. Players went nowhere with Richo and who has stood up with Tatten - outside of Jack Steele who was taken out of the tagging role.

Basically none of our players are improving, Sinclair and Steele. Everyone else has either stayed the same or went backwards.

Would Petracca be the player he is today if we took him over Paddy? I don’t think so.
 
lewdogs said:
When did we have pick 5 and 6?

Also are we calling Coff and Clark busts now?
Click to expand...


They aren't busts but they aren't there yet either coming up to 5 years from when they were drafted. King isn't an out and out star yet either. He's an extremely promising player though. The cold hard facts are that drafting was diabolically bad post Brendan Goddard in 2002. 20 years and counting and we still haven't addressed it in a meaningful way. It's the number one thing that's held us back.
 
George said:
I think so too. Since Clark/Coffield it's been good, we just need access to more picks. I haven't looked at it properly but can bet the Demons had access to more high end talent than we have over the last 10 years. Compensation, bottoming out, etc. We repeatedly finished outside the bottom four and it's probably hurt us.
Click to expand...

I've said that in the past. Richo keeping us in middling land to appease the supporters was the worst situation. Realising that the list was rotten and bottoming out for a few years would have supercharged the rebuild and if we'd had a good recruiter.
 
jwikked said:
I’m starting to think drafting hasn’t been the issue, but player development is the issue. Players went nowhere with Richo and who has stood up with Tatten - outside of Jack Steele who was taken out of the tagging role.

Basically none of our players are improving, Sinclair and Steele. Everyone else has either stayed the same or went backwards.

Would Petracca be the player he is today if we took him over Paddy? I don’t think so.
Click to expand...


Petracca was at Melbourne who were also poo. We would have done just as well because apart from playing him they didn't do anything special. We could have done that. This seems to be a new narrative that we can't have nice things because we break anything that comes into our orbit.
 
gringo2011 said:
I've said that in the past. Richo keeping us in middling land to appease the supporters was the worst situation. Realising that the list was rotten and bottoming out for a few years would have supercharged the rebuild and if we'd had a good recruiter.
Click to expand...
I don't think it was that. I think he was just trying to win games of football and unfortunately for us there were teams that were worse than we were and our finishing position was a bit of bad luck. Unless we want to go down the unethical route of tanking - something I hope we never do. We didn't have many players left to trade out once BJ and Dal left.
 
George said:
This definitely needs more context. Are we just looking at top 10 picks? I think it would be better to also include the players we brought in using some of our top 10 picks and then ask if those deals were in our favour or not.

2013 - Pick 3 (Jack Billings)
2014 - Pick 1 (Paddy McCartin). Melbourne had pick 2 and received pick 3 as compo for James Frawley - what a joke haha. Petracca & Brayshaw.
2015 - Pick 6 - Sent to Essendon for Carlisle and the pick that netted Gresham. Did we win this? Carlisle & Gresham for pick 6?
2016 - Nil
2017 - Pick 7 & 8 (Hunter Clark & Nick Coffield) - Too early to tell definitively but they were showing good signs, Coffield especially before the ACL. Pick 7 was a good get for us and made up for the lack of 1st rounder the year before.
2018 - Pick 4 (Max King) - Looks like he's going to be a gun.
2019 - Pick 6 - Sent to Adelaide as part of the Brad Hill deal. We also had pick 12, 14 and 20 at points during that period that were tied to Howard & Ryder deals. Did we win this?
2020 - Nil
2021 - Pick 11 (I know it's not 10 but close enough) - NWM. Too early to tell but from all reports he's already the best kick at the club and best kick from his draft so I guess plenty of potential?

The biggest issue I think for most clubs is the ridiculous academy and bidding system. It should be scrapped for the 1st round at least.

If you look at it in totality then it's;

Pick 3, 1, 6, 7, 8, 4, 6, 11* for;

Jack Billings
Paddy McCartin
Jake Carlisle
Jade Gresham
Hunter Clark
Nick Coffield
Max King
Brad Hill
Dougal Howard
Paddy Ryder
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera*

*Understand it's not top 10


8 picks for 11 players. Has it really been poor, or do we just need more of a look in in the top end of drafts? Only three top 5 picks in 9 drafts hurts, but We didn't completely bottom out like some other clubs did. If we were repeatedly a bottom four side I'm sure it'd be different.

For what it's worth I think our biggest issue is actually development. I also do think the drafting needs some work, not so much who we select but the positions we go after - I think it's pretty obvious now that our biggest weakness is in the midfield. NWM is a good step in the right direction and Clark/Coffield should be able to one day move through there but it's difficult to get ready made stars outside of the top 5 - which again we haven't had much access to in the last decade.
Click to expand...


Go back and look at the 2016 draft that we traded out of. There are so many good players taken after our picks. It was a very good draft around where Long went. If we'd taken the pick we gave the Hawks to the draft instead of waiting a year for Coff and Clark we might have already had Jye Simpkin or Jarrod Berry. We'd already had to give up a 2nd rounder in that draft for Freeman.

We really need to get a quality recruiter or nothing will change long term.
 
George said:
I don't think it was that. I think he was just trying to win games of football and unfortunately for us there were teams that were worse than we were and our finishing position was a bit of bad luck. Unless we want to go down the unethical route of tanking - something I hope we never do. We didn't have many players left to trade out once BJ and Dal left.
Click to expand...


Richo was trying to keep his job. No-one every looked at the list and decided we needed to work on it. It keeps compounding because we are always too far down the road to turn back. Hopefully we can play finals this year and stay up while remaining competitive and build around a better core but if the recruiting isn't a priority it could be a recipe for disaster.
 
jwikked said:
Would Petracca be the player he is today if we took him over Paddy?
Click to expand...
:think:

QdRQagn.jpg
 
gringo2011 said:
Go back and look at the 2016 draft that we traded out of. There are so many good players taken after our picks. It was a very good draft around where Long went. If we'd taken the pick we gave the Hawks to the draft instead of waiting a year for Coff and Clark we might have already had Jye Simpkin or Jarrod Berry. We'd already had to give up a 2nd rounder in that draft for Freeman.

We really need to get a quality recruiter or nothing will change long term.
Click to expand...
We picked up Jack Steele from GWS for a 2017 2nd rounder and gave pick 10 and 68 to Hawthorn for their 2017 1st (Pick 7 - Hunter Clark), and 2016's pick 23 and 36 that we used on Ben Long and Josh Battle. I can't see much wrong with it, not much between Simpkin, Berry or Clark IMO. Steele, Clark, Long and Battle for pick 10 and 68. Pretty good in totality.

Then the Dogs gave us Koby Stevens, pick 61 (Ed Phillips) and the following years 4th (which we gave away - that player ended up being Dom Barry) for pick 50 (Lewis Young) and a 2017 5th (Callum Porter). All in all a nothing deal but to get Stevens and Phillips for basically nothing isn't the worst thing in the world.
 
gringo2011 said:
Richo was trying to keep his job. No-one every looked at the list and decided we needed to work on it. It keeps compounding because we are always too far down the road to turn back. Hopefully we can play finals this year and stay up while remaining competitive and build around a better core but if the recruiting isn't a priority it could be a recipe for disaster.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter what his reasons were, he was trying to win games of football and I wouldn't want them tanking to go about building through the draft. It was just unfortunate that we were the best of the worst in those years and didn't fall inside the bottom four many times.
 
George said:
I don't think it was that. I think he was just trying to win games of football and unfortunately for us there were teams that were worse than we were and our finishing position was a bit of bad luck. Unless we want to go down the unethical route of tanking - something I hope we never do.
Click to expand...

Agree on tanking but it's not tanking to draft and play more kids, just smart strategy. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
 
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