Opinion Flag or flop?

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bigfarter

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Aug 15, 2009
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I wouldn’t say it’s flag or flop, just because I rate GWS and Collingwood as very, very good teams and they can get anyone on their day. If we go 18-4 or better anything less than a GF will be extremely disappointing, though. For me the biggest challenge lies in probably having to beat the Pies at the G to win a flag, whether it be in a Prelim or Grand Final.

IF we go through the year as well as we have thus far and then immediately get thumped in 2 finals I will cede my right to scold the melters. It will have been thoroughly earned in that case.
 

pollywaffle

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Let’s try and break down what is/might be different about this season
PERCEIVED PROBLEMS ADDRESSED
* performance at the G improved
* more finals orientated game style
* Deadwood (mostly) trimmed
* Functional and more structured forward line with goal kicking spread and ability to apply more ‘forward pressure’
* Less reliance on a limited cohort of players with deeper midfield.
* A clear and present team cohesion/sense of purpose that seemed to be missing in the last couple of years (and can often prove to be the difference in the big dances.)
STILL TO BE ADDRESSED
* performances after a bye
UNKNOWNS
- Can the younger guys keep it up for the whole season and/or will they get overwhelmed by the big stage
- some of the experienced guys have a record of poor/uninspired performances when the heat is on
- How will Scott and co deal with the inevitable scrutiny and apprehension that will surely descend on them before
the finals as our ‘poor record’ becomes a talking point. Does this also flow on to the playing group as a collective(?)
Can’t truly blame coaching for some of our finals mares but surely must take some of the heat. How will he/they adapt.
Love have heart monitor on Scott in the first quarter of next final we play..
Normally don’t do this...I’ll go early and say Flag:eek:
 

steady2

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Jun 25, 2013
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I'm a bit with you me ol' China, we're in a great position right now and it is worthy of acknowledgement - and I've enjoyed every minute of it - but if we don't get the result at the end then it'll all quickly be consigned to the Vault of Horrors. That's just footy. As you point out, Chris Scott has had the club in strong positions on an almost yearly basis without planting a flag on the Moon. I wanna witness that one giant leap for Cat kind one more time (at least).
I do not think so. Even though we finished second a few times, we entered the finals far from favorites. We have not had a decent ruck play in a finals since 2011 neither have we had two decent key forwards, in fact our forward line as been a shambles for years. It has been a long time since we have ever been taken seriously as a premiership side and with good reason.

It is half way through the season and it seems it is likely we will finish in the top 4 and likely top 2. Speculating on anything else at this stage and setting pass marks is absurd. I guess I'm one of the older ones who lived through 89 and the 90s and have not forgotten 2008. Winning a premiership is very difficult, it was Scott who said after the siren in the GF in 2011, "...you cannot overestimate the part played by luck in winning a premiership"!!!
 

Cursed_Cat

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I do not think so. Even though we finished second a few times, we entered the finals far from favorites. We have not had a decent ruck play in a finals since 2011 neither have we had two decent key forwards, in fact our forward line as been a shambles for years. It has been a long time since we have ever been taken seriously as a premiership side and with good reason.

It is half way through the season and it seems it is likely we will finish in the top 4 and likely top 2. Speculating on anything else at this stage and setting pass marks is absurd. I guess I'm one of the older ones who lived through 89 and the 90s and have not forgotten 2008. Winning a premiership is very difficult, it was Scott who said after the siren in the GF in 2011, "...you cannot overestimate the part played by luck in winning a premiership"!!!
I didn't state we were favourites in any of those years, merely that we were in a strong (i.e. top 4) position.

4 top 4 finishes since 2011 and not one GF appearance to show for it; you're a bit more forgiving than I am apparently S2 - in that time we've seen 2 teams that finished lower than us after the H&A rounds take their chances in September and now they've got a shiny cup to show for it (including one team with no key forwards or ruckmen to speak of at all).

I never claimed winning a flag was easy, and like yourself I lived through every single one of those GF losses.

I think the way some of the aforementioned seasons have ended - so dismally and wastefully - gives supporters every reason to speculate and set pass marks.

Like I said, I'm enjoying the journey, but I've got half on eye on the destination too, and given recent history I've a mind to temper my own expectations.
 

CatRiot

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My big concern is our record after the bye. We will have the bye after Round 23, followed by a second potential bye assuming we are top 4 and we win the first final.

I also agree if we finish minor premiers, anything other than losing in a PF in a tight game is a fail. I think the PF is the big danger game assuming we make it.

I think we will win the Minor Premiership, and to a certain degree, that's still something.

Providing we don't lose one of Hawkins, Dangerfield or Kelly; then we are right in the race. They are our most difficult to replace, and probably in that order.

We have good stocks in the defence and ruck, and even the small forward department this year.
 

Cursed_Cat

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At least they are acknowelding it.. plenty has been said by them about Sept and finals and past performance and lack of it..
well 'they' say that the first step to recovery is admitting there's a problem, so you're probably right that it's a good sign for the club to acknowledge that they've fallen short of expectations in (some) recent seasons given the position they'd attained prior to finals ..
 

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Scottland2007

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I wouldn’t be upset if we made a gf and lost to Collingwood. They will want to make amends for last year, if they can get there.
 

Cursed_Cat

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My big concern is our record after the bye. We will have the bye after Round 23, followed by a second potential bye assuming we are top 4 and we win the first final.

I also agree if we finish minor premiers, anything other than losing in a PF in a tight game is a fail. I think the PF is the big danger game assuming we make it.

I think we will win the Minor Premiership, and to a certain degree, that's still something.

Providing we don't lose one of Hawkins, Dangerfield or Kelly; then we are right in the race. They are our most difficult to replace, and probably in that order.

We have good stocks in the defence and ruck, and even the small forward department this year.
I'd trade in all Geelong's McClelland's for one more flag.
 

Cockarfitt

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The system we now have in place is one that stands up in finals. It's the execution that'll decide whether or not we win the flag. That and some luck on the injury front.

We need a fit Hawkins and we need a fit Ablett. They are our two most important players.

I get the impression we've spent a good deal of time focusing on the strengths and weaknesses of the better teams in the league because we've played our best football against those sides and brought more intensity to the contest.

We are now in a position where we can freshen our key players up and gear them towards finals.
 

evolutionbaby

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I'm not going to entertain the idea of disappointment this year. We have the right personnel who exert pressure, play a consistent style that ticks over on the scoreboard. Only bad luck due to injuries will stop us.
Reckon it's our time in the sun again.
 

CatRiot

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Oct 3, 2014
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Let’s try and break down what is/might be different about this season
PERCEIVED PROBLEMS ADDRESSED
* performance at the G improved
* more finals orientated game style
* Deadwood (mostly) trimmed
* Functional and more structured forward line with goal kicking spread and ability to apply more ‘forward pressure’
* Less reliance on a limited cohort of players with deeper midfield.
* A clear and present team cohesion/sense of purpose that seemed to be missing in the last couple of years (and can often prove to be the difference in the big dances.)
STILL TO BE ADDRESSED
* performances after a bye
UNKNOWNS
- Can the younger guys keep it up for the whole season and/or will they get overwhelmed by the big stage
- some of the experienced guys have a record of poor/uninspired performances when the heat is on
- How will Scott and co deal with the inevitable scrutiny and apprehension that will surely descend on them before
the finals as our ‘poor record’ becomes a talking point. Does this also flow on to the playing group as a collective(?)
Can’t truly blame coaching for some of our finals mares but surely must take some of the heat. How will he/they adapt.
Love have heart monitor on Scott in the first quarter of next final we play..
Normally don’t do this...I’ll go early and say Flag:eek:
The young guys have been in the system for a few years now, so they should be fine come end of season - I wouldn't be worrying about the likes of say Henry, O'Connor, Atkins. Miers has a big engine, so I'm not concerned about him either, seems to be getting better each week. The only one that may need a rest towards back end is probably Clark, who had a limited preseason with his glandular fever, but he's a running and natural footballer type so I reckon he'll be fine also. If we finish top 4, which is very likely, we will have two byes, which will freshen these guys up quite a bit.
 

RegHickeyStand

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Hasn’t been a really dominant team for a while, the Crows in 2017 and Tigers last year were at various stages looking close it it. Cautionary tale there.

If we go 20-2 or 19-3, huge pressure comes. Slight worry is we don’t face Giants, Pies or Eagles again in home and away to get a guide.
Bulldogs 2nd half of 2016 were the closest thing to a dominant side. Only it was the second half of the season and hard to identify them as that. I give credit to my youngest son who said just before the H&A finished that the bullies were smashing the comp considering they heaps of players yet to come in.
 

steady2

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I didn't state we were favourites in any of those years, merely that we were in a strong (i.e. top 4) position.

4 top 4 finishes since 2011 and not one GF appearance to show for it; you're a bit more forgiving than I am apparently S2 - in that time we've seen 2 teams that finished lower than us after the H&A rounds take their chances in September and now they've got a shiny cup to show for it (including one team with no key forwards or ruckmen to speak of at all).

I never claimed winning a flag was easy, and like yourself I lived through every single one of those GF losses.

I think the way some of the aforementioned seasons have ended - so dismally and wastefully - gives supporters every reason to speculate and set pass marks.

Like I said, I'm enjoying the journey, but I've got half on eye on the destination too, and given recent history I've a mind to temper my own expectations.
We are in a strong position now, half way through the season. Anything can happen. Placing expectations and pass marks at this stage might be good for you but I hope the team is focused on resting this week and then on beating Port in Adelaide the week after the bye.

St Kilda were by far the best team in 2009 and lost just two games right at the end of the season which had no bearing on the ladder. They ended up facing us in the GF. After an injury plagued season we had almost our best team ready, it rained reducing Riewoldts effectiveness and some nerves from some of the younger Saints all played into our hands. Some luck and a lot determination to claim redemption for the previous year, the Saints lost, only just. It was their best chance and they still remain flag barren since 1966.

The lid is firmly on for me. It is a marathon not a sprint and we are halfway.
 

barmy44

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Bulldogs 2nd half of 2016 were the closest thing to a dominant side. Only it was the second half of the season and hard to identify them as that. I give credit to my youngest son who said just before the H&A finished that the bullies were smashing the comp considering they heaps of players yet to come in.
really? from round 11: 4 losses, 5 wins by 10 points or less (3 against non-finalists, and 3 under a goal), 1 win against 8th by 14 points, and 2 decent wins against the spooners and 15th placed GC...

excellent finals series, and great season all up, but not sure they were ever dominant.
 

Cursed_Cat

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We are in a strong position now, half way through the season. Anything can happen. Placing expectations and pass marks at this stage might be good for you but I hope the team is focused on resting this week and then on beating Port in Adelaide the week after the bye.

St Kilda were by far the best team in 2009 and lost just two games right at the end of the season which had no bearing on the ladder. They ended up facing us in the GF. After an injury plagued season we had almost our best team ready, it rained reducing Riewoldts effectiveness and some nerves from some of the younger Saints all played into our hands. Some luck and a lot determination to claim redemption for the previous year, the Saints lost, only just. It was their best chance and they still remain flag barren since 1966.

The lid is firmly on for me. It is a marathon not a sprint and we are halfway.
we are agreed on the bolded Steady2.
 

barmy44

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all you can do in H&A is position yourself well for finals, which are - being mostly knockout games - a different thing entirely.

even if every final played, geelong were an 80% chance at winning (very generous) - that equates to a 51% chance of winning all three. slightly better than even. nothing is guaranteed, no matter how good the season preceding the finals series.

the added difficulty is the benefit of where you finish isnt always evident. finishing 1st obviously seems ideal, but if collingwood finish 4th that benefit is diluted for us against them at the MCG. GWS in 3rd, and wed probably rather finish 2nd and play them at the MCG.
 

Vdubs

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I think CS believes the premise of the OP. He has said we should cherish this time we are witnessing with GAJ, Danger, Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins ALL performing together because time is limited. We need tp play Port , Freo and Brisbane and have then played all contenders. So there is plenty of work to do, and now NM, Carlton and Swans are finding form, we will be challenged weekly, all year, which is good.
Our best coup is that we can legitimately rest and manage players needing it, so we can truly peak "when it counts".
 
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