Flag Window?

[Cotcho]

Two years away. The Tigers appeared to build depth in their midfield this year, but it's an on-ball group that still doesn't stack up when compared with this year's Grand Finalists. More work is also needed to build a strong support cast for captain Trent Cotchin in the leadership department before Richmond will be seriously challenging. Premiership teams inevitably have influential ruckmen, so finding and developing a strong ruck duo is another task ahead after an injury-hampered season for Ivan Maric. The backline was a strength this year and that will be the foundation for a yellow and black premiership tilt. All going well Richmond could make the Grand Final in 2015. Next year shapes as a crucial stepping stone, but perhaps a year too soon.

- Nathan Schmook

Afl website. Not sure if everyone has seen it.

 

[nobulltiger]

Agree. This group that's their time.
You have to consider that at the end of that period a lot of our blokes will be offered massive money as free agents too.

That's right. Also, with how good we are, you never know what great players may elect to play with us and things may just continue. Hopefully.

 

[Goldust]

- Nathan Schmook

Afl website. Not sure if everyone has seen it.

Someone needs to tell this guy for starters, Hawthorn and Freo don't have the best on-ball divisions int the competition. I'd rate Geelong, Sydney and possibly Collingwood above them. FFS, we beat both Hawthorn (twice in a row by a combined 100 plus points with our midfield dismantling them) and also Freo. And now our midfield can't compete with them??????

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I do not believe Chaplin is a gun defender. I watched the replay between RFC and Swans today. It re-affirmed my belief that I rate him as handy. Maric is also handy.

The draft picks you talk about historical develop and improve for successful clubs to form premierships as they grow with experience and physical development!

The draft picks have far more upside than Maric and Chaplin.

I would not be surprised if Hampson does not replace Maric and or TV within 2 years

How about we continue our discussion here Magic instead of derailing another thread?

If even 2-3 of McDonough, McIntosh, Griffiths, Dea or Elton end up as good as Maric or Chaplin we will win 2-3 flags.

Griffiths is close to being delisted.

 

[Mr Magic]

How about we continue our discussion here Magic instead of derailing another thread?

If even 2-3 of McDonough, McIntosh, Griffiths, Dea or Elton end up as good as Maric or Chaplin we will win 2-3 flags.

Griffiths is close to being delisted.

No we won't .

McDonough, McIntosh, Griffiths , Dea or Elton need to be better than Maric and Chaplin. You can only carry so many handy types in a premiership team and win!!

IMO McIntosh at least should be better than Chaplin and Maric!! Dea or someone else needs to perform better than Houli if Houli cannot improve defensively as well.

At least the Pies are acknowledging they have some average types and are prepared to modify to do something about it!!

BTW , then their is our forward line, how is that going to be fixed in 2 years??? How can you play with so many ruck/forward types and win???

At some stage adjustment is required and McBean needs time to develop. Beyond 3 years is far more realistic IMO! and allows you to win in 5 years if this turns out to be realistic when the list is more transparent.

Shooting for a premiership within 3 years without consequence for the future like St Kilda is a gamble IMO!! particularly if their is little cause that suggest we are on the eve on contention!!

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

No we won't .

McDonough, McIntosh, Griffiths , Dea or Elton need to be better than Maric and Chaplin. You can only carry so many handy types in a premiership team and win!!

IMO McIntosh at least should be better than Chaplin and Maric!! Dea or someone else needs to perform better than Houli if Houli cannot improve defensively as well

What exactly are you basing this on other than your own delusional dreams? He was picked up at pick ~30 and struggled to get a kick for Coburg. I'm not going to write him off, but he hasn't done anything to suggest he'll even make it to Matt White's level, let alone Maric or Chaplin's.

You're advocating ripping the team apart by trading key players for draft picks, because you've got dreams of players who are miles off our best 22 becoming borderline AA. It doesn't work like that.

 

[tunksy]

hey magic heads up, McIntosh is a KPP like chaplin. he cant take the big full forwards. he aint up to yet. hes a tall HBFer or winger.

also go back and look at how good we were defensively. I do believe we were 3rd best in the league... off sydney and freo. pretty damn good I'd say.

 

[Mr Magic]

hey magic heads up, McIntosh is a KPP like chaplin. he cant take the big full forwards. he aint up to yet. hes a tall HBFer or winger.

also go back and look at how good we were defensively. I do believe we were 3rd best in the league... off sydney and freo. pretty damn good I'd say.

I said McIntosh needs to be better, I didn't say he needs to play CHB. The point is if the team gets better we might be able to support Chaplin etc.. but the point is the team needs to get better.

Historically, the best way to get your team better is develop the youth like what Collingwood is attempting!!.

BTW , in my opinion we do not have the 3rd best defense. You cannot compare teams playing against different oppositions with different midfields etc... It is absurd!!

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

No we won't .

McDonough, McIntosh, Griffiths , Dea or Elton need to be better than Maric and Chaplin. You can only carry so many handy types in a premiership team and win!!

IMO McIntosh at least should be better than Chaplin and Maric!! Dea or someone else needs to perform better than Houli if Houli cannot improve defensively as well.

At least the Pies are acknowledging they have some average types and are prepared to modify to do something about it!!

BTW , then their is our forward line, how is that going to be fixed in 2 years??? How can you play with so many ruck/forward types and win???

At some stage adjustment is required and McBean needs time to develop. Beyond 3 years is far more realistic IMO! and allows you to win in 5 years if this turns out to be realistic when the list is more transparent.

Shooting for a premiership within 3 years without consequence for the future like St Kilda is a gamble IMO!! particularly if their is little cause that suggest we are on the eve on contention!!

We won 15 games this year. Win 2 more and we are in minor premiership territory. And you're a very harsh marker if you think Maric and Chaplin are average types. You'd have to call Griffiths, Dea and McIntosh "potato types" off that rankings system.

If we want to contend we need a few minor tweaks to our side:

-We need Hampson to be a solid ruck/forward. He doesn't need to dominate.
-Vickery to take that next step and become a good quality forward. He kicked 27 goals this year despite shouldering a decent part of the ruck work. Towards the end of the year his form was strong when our forwardline was focused around him. Sit him at full forward next year and 40-50 goals is on.
-Keep Grimes on the park for the season (easier said than done).
-Get another pre-season into Vlastuin, Ellis, Martin and Conca.

And a good small forward would be handy too. Fullfill all these (realistic) expectations and we are bashing the door down.

 

[Mr Magic]

What exactly are you basing this on other than your own delusional dreams? He was picked up at pick ~30 and struggled to get a kick for Coburg. I'm not going to write him off, but he hasn't done anything to suggest he'll even make it to Matt White's level, let alone Maric or Chaplin's.

You're advocating ripping the team apart by trading key players for draft picks, because you've got dreams of players who are miles off our best 22 becoming borderline AA. It doesn't work like that.

McIntosh has only had one year FFS!!

When Maric was drafted he was pick 40. Can we say McIntosh may be better than Maric. How good was Maric in his first year??

I am not advocating ripping the team apart. I am advocating replacing average types like Browne and Graham with better players except not just through the trade process but also the draft. Isn't that what Collingwood are doing??? If we were trading Cotch away like St Kilda with McEvoy we would be ripping the team apart!!

 

[Mr Magic]

We won 15 games this year. Win 2 more and we are in minor premiership territory. And you're a very harsh marker if you think Maric and Chaplin are average types. You'd have to call Griffiths, Dea and McIntosh "potato types" off that rankings system.

If we want to contend we need a few minor tweaks to our side:

-We need Hampson to be a solid ruck/forward. He doesn't need to dominate.
-Vickery to take that next step and become a good quality forward. He kicked 27 goals this year despite shouldering a decent part of the ruck work. Towards the end of the year his form was strong when our forwardline was focused around him. Sit him at full forward next year and 40-50 goals is on.
-Keep Grimes on the park for the season (easier said than done).
-Get another pre-season into Vlastuin, Ellis, Martin and Conca.

And a good small forward would be handy too. Fullfill all these (realistic) expectations and we are bashing the door down.

Means little except we have improved and with Graham and Browne etc.. gone we have less shit players. Doesn't mean we are premiership contenders or near it.

When have the Bulldogs been premiership contenders???

Wins are irrelevant with biased draws etc.. I t all depends on who you are playing and how well you are playing.

Why will TV be a good solely FF??? why will he be good enough at ground level, or more importantly how, with so many projected big types in our team will we be able to adequately compete as a team at ground level particularly in the forward half when guns of the past like Blight say how important it is to keep on your feet as a forward when the ball hits the ground like Ablett Snr?

 

[TigersMan4]

I think Magic needs his own thread to shitpost whatever comes into his head..

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

McIntosh has only had one year FFS!!

When Maric was drafted he was pick 40. Can we say McIntosh may be better than Maric. How good was Maric in his first year??

We know how good Maric is, but we have no idea how good McIntosh will be. The odds of a pick 30 something midfielder who hasn't shown much going on to become a gun player aren't great. Maybe 25-40% chance of it happening.

Why do you think we should tear apart the core of a side that won 15 games and replace it with kids? Because some kid who has shown **** all might end up better than Maric who was a borderline AA ruck last year?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I think Magic needs his own thread to shitpost whatever comes into his head..

I thought this one was appropriate. Flag windows are his specialty after all.

 

[Mr Magic]

We know how good Maric is, but we have no idea how good McIntosh will be. The odds of a pick 30 something midfielder who hasn't shown much going on to become a gun player aren't great. Maybe 25-40% chance of it happening.

Why do you think we should tear apart the core of a side that won 15 games and replace it with kids? Because some kid who has shown **** all might end up better than Maric who was a borderline AA ruck last year?

Maric was picked at pick 40 How did they know how good or bad he was then.

No one knows 100% thats why skill is involved and if you are not good enough recruiting you get turfed out like any other competitive field. Can't live and survive with a dummy in your mouth!!

I a, not saying tearing a team apart, I am saying the list needs to improve over time to win 17+ games let alone win a premiership!!

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Means little except we have improved and with Graham and Browne etc.. gone we have less shit players. Doesn't mean we are premiership contenders or near it.

When have the Bulldogs been premiership contenders???

Wins are irrelevant with biased draws etc.. I t all depends on who you are playing and how well you are playing.

Why will TV be a good solely FF??? why will he be good enough at ground level, or more importantly how, with so many projected big types in our team will we be able to adequately compete as a team at ground level particularly in the forward half when guns of the past like Blight say how important it is to keep on your feet as a forward when the ball hits the ground like Ablett Snr?

And we still have shit players to replace.

-Replace Ricky Petterd with someone half decent and we're instantly better
-Replace Jake King with a quality small forward and we're instantly better
-Replace the 21 games that Aaron Edwards and Luke McGuane combined for with a quality tall and we're instantly better.
-Longergan/Nahas/Griffiths/Dea/Helbig/McDonough/Arnott/Astbury combined for 19 games this year and they were mostly all low quality. If just one player steps up and can keep guys like these (the 2013 versions of them) out of the side we are a much better side.

Don't go thinking we don't have holes to plug. Maric and Chaplin are the least of our concerns.

 

[Mr Magic]

And we still have shit players to replace.

-Replace Ricky Petterd with someone half decent and we're instantly better
-Replace Jake King with a quality small forward and we're instantly better
-Replace the 21 games that Aaron Edwards and Luke McGuane combined for with a quality tall and we're instantly better.
-Longergan/Nahas/Griffiths/Dea/Helbig/McDonough/Arnott/Astbury combined for 19 games this year and they were mostly all low quality. If just one player steps up and can keep guys like these (the 2013 versions of them) out of the side we are a much better side.

Don't go thinking we don't have holes to plug. Maric and Chaplin are the least of our concerns.

How about how weak our defense was against Carlton. What went wrong then??? Is our defense hiding behind our improved midfield.

Surely it is in our interest to view how we can improve our team most effectively by looking at things with two eyes instead of one.

I didn't see many quality games from Houli and Chaplin honestly this year.

Do you think assessments should be made by people independent from those involved in the recruitment decisions so evaluations are independent and less biased??

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Maric was picked at pick 40 How did they know how good or bad he was then.

No one knows 100% thats why skill is involved and if you are not good enough recruiting you get turfed out like any other competitive field. Can't live and survive with a dummy in your mouth!!

I a, not saying tearing a team apart, I am saying the list needs to improve over time to win 17+ games let alone win a premiership!!

Look, I'm not going to argue with you much longer. Here's how I see it:

-We won 15 games this year, and thus it's fair to say we are already a pretty good team.
-We have nobody of quality retiring over the next 3-4 years or so.
-We still have an enormous amount of improvement to come from our midfield. That will come from Vlastuin, Ellis, Conca and Martin all building up their fitness base. This is improvement that is extremely likely to happen (unlike Ben Griffiths becoming borderline AA) and very soon.
-So we've got 3-4 years to continually improve from our already high base before structurally important players like Chaplin/Maric/Jackson start calling it stumps.

Yet you don't think our window opens until these key players are retiring? It's just a strange train of thought. You obviously remember when we had Gus Graham and Browne in the ruck, and when Luke McGuane and Will Thursfield were our key defenders. These guys aren't going to be easy to replace and the side will take a hit when they do retire. I don't see why you're so adament that our flag window will open when these key guys are retiring, but not before.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

How about how weak our defense was against Carlton. What went wrong then??? Is our defense hiding behind our improved midfield.

Surely it is in our interest to view how we can improve our team most effectively by looking at things with two eyes instead of one.

I didn't see many quality games from Houli and Chaplin honestly this year.

Do you think assessments should be made by people independent from those involved in the recruitment decisions so evaluations are independent and less biased??

Chaplin came third in our best and fairest, you obviously had different glasses on to our coaching staff.

And our backline looked no weaker against Carlton than Hawthorn's did against ours. Some times you just have bad games. Our backline was pretty tight this year.

 

[Mr Magic]

Chaplin came third in our best and fairest, you obviously had different glasses on to our coaching staff.

And our backline looked no weaker against Carlton than Hawthorn's did against ours. Some times you just have bad games. Our backline was pretty tight this year.

rubbish and an excuse IMO.

The trouble with Chaplin IMO is he is not effective enough defensively aerially. IMO if you are relying on a player of Chaplins size primarily for run rather than defense structurally it weakens you defensively like playing Lids in the backline.

I think Chaplin is far better than what had in the backlines of the past like Thursfield and McGuane etc.. but he was nowhere near no.3 for the year IMO. Rance for one was better in defense IMO

 

[Mr Magic]

Look, I'm not going to argue with you much longer. Here's how I see it:

-We won 15 games this year, and thus it's fair to say we are already a pretty good team.
-We have nobody of quality retiring over the next 3-4 years or so.
-We still have an enormous amount of improvement to come from our midfield. That will come from Vlastuin, Ellis, Conca and Martin all building up their fitness base. This is improvement that is extremely likely to happen (unlike Ben Griffiths becoming borderline AA) and very soon.
-So we've got 3-4 years to continually improve from our already high base before structurally important players like Chaplin/Maric/Jackson start calling it stumps.

Yet you don't think our window opens until these key players are retiring? It's just a strange train of thought. You obviously remember when we had Gus Graham and Browne in the ruck, and when Luke McGuane and Will Thursfield were our key defenders. These guys aren't going to be easy to replace and the side will take a hit when they do retire. I don't see why you're so adament that our flag window will open when these key guys are retiring, but not before.

The problem is most of our improvement IMO is needed in the forward line and defense.

We is our improvement coming from in the forward line and defense, let alone contested ball against the likes of Carlton. Where is our next ruck rover??

 

[tunksy]

improvement in the forward line will come from:

- vickery spending more time there at FF. hampson will be playing as second ruck to maric.
- jack will be at chf. his skills are good enough to deliver and to pressure and chase.
- sheds should go back to the forward line he's so creative there. can rotate with arnot, mcdonough and other mids.
- king becomes a bit part player or plays the whole season. very very good defensively.
- mcdonough/O'hanlon/ arnot are all capable up forward
- knights coming back from injury

- then of course mcbean could get some senior games as a 3rd tall.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

The problem is most of our improvement IMO is needed in the forward line and defense.

We is our improvement coming from in the forward line and defense, let alone contested ball against the likes of Carlton. Where is our next ruck rover??

Vickery up forward, Grimes down back. I agree a small forward is probably he biggest hole we need to fill.

 

[Mr Magic]

Vickery up forward, Grimes down back. I agree a small forward is probably he biggest hole we need to fill.

If you guys are so fussed over a premiership in 2 years we should have got J White for later pick.

Pies managed to get him for pick 44, Amazing. Pies are slaughtering the trade period again and just belting other teams up!!!

 

[Spluff]

If you guys are so fussed over a premiership in 2 years we should have got J White for later pick.

Pies managed to get him for pick 44, Amazing. Pies are slaughtering the trade period again and just belting other teams up!!!

Because Jesse White is exactly what we need on our list. They'd have to give US pick 44 for it to be worthwhile.