Flooding in the final weeks

[SellarStardom]

I would have put this under the changes for next week or SANFL thread but they weren't right for this.

Pyke is talking up the mathematical possibility whilst Talia says they need to get back to playing the "Crows" way. This all points to putting in the best possible side each week and not putting players like Tex in for surgery.

We would all like to see a more future-looking perspective, so if you could, who would you blood in the final weeks.

Himmelberg - get this kid playing with form
Hunter - agile, same height as Sauce, build up some currency and Sauce is cooked

After than who else would you throw in. Sig, Jars, Davis???/do we put more miles into Wilson?

 

[Bazz_27]

They are hardly going to come out and say season is over and we are going to play the kids.

I assume we put basically our best side in this week in the showdown and next week we start putting players away for surgery.

 

[Mismatched]

They are hardly going to come out and say season is over and we are going to play the kids.

I assume we put basically our best side in this week in the showdown and next week we start putting players away for surgery.

Yep, if we win against Port, there’s still a decent chance, not amazing, but decent chance we could still make finals. Until then the clubs not going to “give up” on the season. However, if we lose to Port, it’s all over red rover, and we’ll probably start to see a few players drop out with “season ending” injuries for surgery etc.

 

[GrommoT]

Yep, if we win against Port, there’s still a decent chance, not amazing, but decent chance we could still make finals. Until then the clubs not going to “give up” on the season. However, if we lose to Port, it’s all over red rover, and we’ll probably start to see a few players drop out with “season ending” injuries for surgery etc.

From what Pyke said about owing it to our supporters who turn up to our games, the Club's stated goal would still be to win every game when we're definitively out of the running for the 8. Mind you, I'm taking a grain of salt with whatever they're saying this year

 

[Murray2503]

Yep, if we win against Port, there’s still a decent chance, not amazing, but decent chance we could still make finals. Until then the clubs not going to “give up” on the season. However, if we lose to Port, it’s all over red rover, and we’ll probably start to see a few players drop out with “season ending” injuries for surgery etc.

The club needs to be realistic. 1. We aren't making finals. 2. Even if we made the finals(which we won't) we would be out first week and clearly making up the numbers. I understand the club needs to sell hope. They have been selling it for 20 years and are masters of the sell. Maybe it's time to take a realistic look of where we're at as a club and start managing for success instead of focusing on selling hope. Just a thought.

 

[John Who]

The club needs to be realistic. 1. We aren't making finals. 2. Even if we made the finals(which we won't) we would be out first week and clearly making up the numbers. I understand the club needs to sell hope. They have been selling it for 20 years and are masters of the sell. Maybe it's time to take a realistic look of where we're at as a club and start managing for success instead of focusing on selling hope. Just a thought.

If we end up winning all 4 games, we would have beaten Port, GWS and North. All are possible candidates for a first Finals matchup should we make it to the major rounds. It's likely we won't make it, but whilst the other teams aren't all that flash apart from the Tigers, no reason to give up hope entirely as yet.

 

[Murray2503]

If we end up winning all 4 games, we would have beaten Port, GWS and North. All are possible candidates for a first Finals matchup should we make it to the major rounds. It's likely we won't make it, but whilst the other teams aren't all that flash apart from the Tigers, no reason to give up hope entirely as yet.

There is hope and then there is delusional thinking. I'm all for hope but my hope is grounded in reality and truth. Knowing where you are at is the first step in progression along with honestly looking at your weaknesses. I would prefer us to be using the last 4 weeks as a tool to our playing list for next year. I would say to the playing list right the days of guaranteed selection based on games played, contract size and incompetent performances are over. Next year you will only be picked if you perform whether you are eddie betts or taylor walker. Next year starts now. I would pick a team based on form and would be picking the likes of himmelberg, davis, dear to see what they offer. This would prove to the playing group that if they work their asses off over summer then they are every chance to be starting 22 next year. I cuurently feel that many players on our list don't feel that way. That needs to change now. Genuine competition for spots along with a strong draft and trade performance will see us moving in the right direction next year. The club also needs to make significant hard decisions in it's general manager of football, fitness staff, coaches, playing group list managent and chairman of our board. Is the club strong enough to take on those decisions? Time will tell but they need to.

 

[betterthanu]

The thing that always annoys me during off seasons is when players are allowed time off to let injuries theyve been carrying heal, only for them to then need surgery anyway come January. They then miss a chunk of preseason and are behind the 8-ball once again. Any player that is carrying niggles like that should be the ones to first. We desperately need the numbers on the track during the break to get our ball movement back.

 

[Carmo]

Is this thread meant to be called "blooding in the final weeks" ?

 

[Coopers]

The thing that always annoys me during off seasons is when players are allowed time off to let injuries theyve been carrying heal, only for them to then need surgery anyway come January. They then miss a chunk of preseason and are behind the 8-ball once again. Any player that is carrying niggles like that should be the ones to first. We desperately need the numbers on the track during the break to get our ball movement back.

It's the AFC way! Let's all have December surgery!

 

[Mike Smyth]

looks like some have got sucked into the lie that Hunter is even a mediocre footballer. is he even average sanfl standard. pass.

 

[Mike Smyth]

If we end up winning all 4 games, we would have beaten Port, GWS and North. All are possible candidates for a first Finals matchup should we make it to the major rounds. It's likely we won't make it, but whilst the other teams aren't all that flash apart from the Tigers, no reason to give up hope entirely as yet.

Seriously, give it a rest. The season is over.

 

[BRL121]

Seriously, give it a rest. The season is over.

Yes, it is. In fact, I thought that we weren't even mathematical. However, I did the predictor, and with reasonably expected results in other matches, there is still a "chance". I had us needing to beat Carlton in the last by a big margin, in order to go past Essendon on percentage, with Port and the Swans dropping out. 13 wins and percentage will get in. In fact, it's quite possible that teams 5-10 will end up on 13 wins.

...... Of course, the season is over, but it's only over because we will not win the last four games, not being good enough.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Yes, it is. In fact, I thought that we weren't even mathematical. However, I did the predictor, and with reasonably expected results in other matches, there is still a "chance". I had us needing to beat Carlton in the last by a big margin, in order to go past Essendon on percentage, with Port and the Swans dropping out. 13 wins and percentage will get in. In fact, it's quite possible that teams 5-10 will end up on 13 wins.

...... Of course, the season is over, but it's only over because we will not win the last four games, not being good enough.

So I can fit in I'm going to get a prescription for Lithium.

 

[John Who]

There is hope and then there is delusional thinking. I'm all for hope but my hope is grounded in reality and truth. Knowing where you are at is the first step in progression along with honestly looking at your weaknesses. I would prefer us to be using the last 4 weeks as a tool to our playing list for next year. I would say to the playing list right the days of guaranteed selection based on games played, contract size and incompetent performances are over. Next year you will only be picked if you perform whether you are eddie betts or taylor walker. Next year starts now. I would pick a team based on form and would be picking the likes of himmelberg, davis, dear to see what they offer. This would prove to the playing group that if they work their asses off over summer then they are every chance to be starting 22 next year. I cuurently feel that many players on our list don't feel that way. That needs to change now. Genuine competition for spots along with a strong draft and trade performance will see us moving in the right direction next year. The club also needs to make significant hard decisions in it's general manager of football, fitness staff, coaches, playing group list managent and chairman of our board. Is the club strong enough to take on those decisions? Time will tell but they need to.

There's 2 parts to me right now:
1. The part that agrees with everything in the above.
2. The part that whilst there's still hope, some positive outlook in more of our better players returning, improvement in overall skills with the better players, there's a sneaky chance we can make it to the Finals still. IF we get there, and a BIG IF, we would have beaten most of the teams in the top 8, including Richmond. So a part of me refuse to give it up, just yet.

 

[John Who]

The thing that always annoys me during off seasons is when players are allowed time off to let injuries theyve been carrying heal, only for them to then need surgery anyway come January. They then miss a chunk of preseason and are behind the 8-ball once again. Any player that is carrying niggles like that should be the ones to first. We desperately need the numbers on the track during the break to get our ball movement back.

Not all conditions are amenable to surgery. Not all surgeries are guaranteed quick fix. And surgery carry its own risks.
If you collate all the above data, some conditions you can jump straight to surgery (eg. displaced fracture, torn tendons, appendicitis), and other conditions you're better off trialiing a period of rest before you even consider surgery.

Some are quick to blame the club for delayed surgeries. We're somehow forgetting that players have brains and have Google app. If a surgical procedure is a guaranteed quick fix instead of trialling rest first, wouldn't players opt surgery with/without the club's suggestion?

 

[Scrogdogg]

The thing that always annoys me during off seasons is when players are allowed time off to let injuries theyve been carrying heal, only for them to then need surgery anyway come January. They then miss a chunk of preseason and are behind the 8-ball once again. Any player that is carrying niggles like that should be the ones to first. We desperately need the numbers on the track during the break to get our ball movement back.

Ye of little faith in our Head of Football and his cohort.

 

[Thetrader15]

They are hardly going to come out and say season is over and we are going to play the kids.

I assume we put basically our best side in this week in the showdown and next week we start putting players away for surgery.

Why not? Essendon sid that and haven't lost since.

Maybe Port sunconsciously drop their intensity if they hear that too

 

[Thetrader15]

It's the AFC way! Let's all have December surgery!

Or leave it to rest until May then send them in

 

[Mismatched]

It's the AFC way! Let's all have December surgery!

It’s actually a really difficult thing to juggle, surgery vs conservative management, especially in elite level footballers.

The evidence regarding surgery for a lot of conditions is increasingly pointing to conservative management, where traditionally surgery has been performed. The trouble is we live in a culture with a belief that surgery cures all and footballers are no different.

I suspect with some of our issues over the preseason, the club was actually following evidence based management. The trouble is footballers are naturally active and competitive people, so often rarely follow the rehab/rest advise as they should, they also don’t quite buy in given this “surgery cures all” culture.

As a result, essentially they don’t get better. Thus they go have surgery and you know what? They’re forced to rest and suddenly do do their rehab properly, because that’s what you do post surgery, and they get better, probably through little fault of the Surgeon.

It’s similar to how kids with injuries are placed in a plaster, not because the injury requires it, but because it forces them to rest.

This is where our medico’s perhaps need to get better at picking up on which players will do well with conservative management and which once’s they’d be better off just sending for surgery early. I’m certainly not going to pretend it’s an easy decision, because it’s not.

 

[John Who]

It’s actually a really difficult thing to juggle, surgery vs conservative management, especially in elite level footballers.

The evidence regarding surgery for a lot of conditions is increasingly pointing to conservative management, where traditionally surgery has been performed. The trouble is we live in a culture with a belief that surgery cures all and footballers are no different.

I suspect with some of our issues over the preseason, the club was actually following evidence based management. The trouble is footballers are naturally active and competitive people, so often rarely follow the rehab/rest advise as they should, they also don’t quite buy in given this “surgery cures all” culture.

As a result, essentially they don’t get better. Thus they go have surgery and you know what? They’re forced to rest and suddenly do do their rehab properly, because that’s what you do post surgery, and they get better, probably through little fault of the Surgeon.

It’s similar to how kids with injuries are placed in a plaster, not because the injury requires it, but because it forces them to rest.

This is where our medico’s perhaps need to get better at picking up on which players will do well with conservative management and which once’s they’d be better off just sending for surgery early. I’m certainly not going to pretend it’s an easy decision, because it’s not.

Thank you for your measured response. I've been harping about this issue on the BCrouch thread previously. Some want to keep thinking everything is quickly fixed with surgery, when in fact it ain't that simple!

It's like "Doc, I've got a flu". Doc: "no probs, off you go for sinus surgery!"

"Doc, I've got a mild ankle sprain". Doc: "Ok, get ready for major ankle reconstruction!"

[Hint: if your doc actually says the above, perhaps seek another doc]

 

[Rotayjay]

It's not like 2015 when we were a team on the rise and needed some finals experience. Last year we were thinking about sewing up a top 2 spot and now we are reduced to discussing our 5-30% chance of making the eight. I'll be the first to put my hand up and say I was very optimistic right up until the Alice Springs match, but our season has gone through various degrees of 'over' since then.

 

[BRL121]

I would have put this under the changes for next week or SANFL thread but they weren't right for this.

Pyke is talking up the mathematical possibility whilst Talia says they need to get back to playing the "Crows" way. This all points to putting in the best possible side each week and not putting players like Tex in for surgery.

We would all like to see a more future-looking perspective, so if you could, who would you blood in the final weeks.

Himmelberg - get this kid playing with form
Hunter - agile, same height as Sauce, build up some currency and Sauce is cooked

After than who else would you throw in. Sig, Jars, Davis???/do we put more miles into Wilson?

I think that you should change your heading to "Folding in the Final Weeks".

 

[betterthanu]

Not all conditions are amenable to surgery. Not all surgeries are guaranteed quick fix. And surgery carry its own risks.
If you collate all the above data, some conditions you can jump straight to surgery (eg. displaced fracture, torn tendons, appendicitis), and other conditions you're better off trialiing a period of rest before you even consider surgery.

Some are quick to blame the club for delayed surgeries. We're somehow forgetting that players have brains and have Google app. If a surgical procedure is a guaranteed quick fix instead of trialling rest first, wouldn't players opt surgery with/without the club's suggestion?

Thats reasonable. I simply mean give these players an early rest if possible so we have more time to monitor their recovery. If we can make our assessment a month earlier than usual, then if we need to go down the surgery road they have time to recover and still have a pre-season. An example was Greenwood not having surgery until the very end of November last year for his Achilles.

 

[Cincinnatus]

At this point the club is just waiting for one more loss to confirm what we all know is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

Surgery this week or next, not a huge difference.