Religion Folau

[Frank Bunn]

This is a little more important than political dick sizing mate.

These people are organised, permeating through academia and the bureaucracy, and want to seize political power.

The election result showed that there is a huge disconnect between the views of ordinary Australians and those in academia, the public service and corporate executive positions. The competitive victimhood narrative originated in academia but has now been absorbed as orthodoxy in our institutions, all the way from schools to the armed forces.

 

[Opine]

Okay, if the issue of freedom of speech or corporate overreach whatever is such a massive problem that it needs addressing what I don't understand is why it has to be Folau's particular religious bigotry the fight is raised on?

Don't think its anything more than timing. His case, recent debate on SSM, numerous consequential scenario's and protections requiring resolution.

 

[skipper kelly]

If the person was a high profile sports person who breached the code of conduct of his sport in the same circumstances and then sought $3M to help his legals costs? Yes I think I would. Would you?

I most definitively wouldn't donate and I would be surprised if those that have contributed to Folau would either.

So it's the high profile that you would object to rather than the religion. Thanks for your honesty, it adds to the discussion.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

All employment contracts can have whatever you want in them.

But the problem is you are restricted federally and by the state's more than any other contract in what you can enforce and regardless of that what is reasonable.

So just because you willingly agree to something doesn't mean you pay the price. Very simplistically and without getting into whether he did this as a private person or not there are two pieces of legislation that come into play the various state anti discrimination legislation and fairwork act. In NSW the anti descrimination legislation may not protect him with a religious exemption and the contract may be able to be enforced, in Victoria it possibly would protect him. Contracts go through the state courts.

Regardless of the contract fairwork protects employees against discrimination including religion, this goes through the commission and probably the federal court. This does not require him to be on an award/EA specifically. This is what folau is relying on that it was unlawful to dismiss him , not fighting the contract clauses per se.

Hope that makes sense

Thanks for that background; you clearly know a lot more about employment law than me.

But I reckon if the court DOES find that contract law takes precedence over the relevant employment regulations, well, given that he breached once and was warned, Folau will have a very hard time doing a Gilbert O’Sullivan and convincing the court that he signed the contract when not in full knowledge of the implications of the clauses it contained.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Theory of mind my friend.

See bolded............. and that ends the discussion.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Has Gofundme explained why the collection for Eggboy, someone who assaulted an elected official, was ok? Over $80,000 raised for the stated purposes of

- Legal fees
- More eggs

Donate to Money for EggBoi, organized by Egg Boi

Our hero EggBoi takes on Fraser Anning, the senator for Queensland that is now despised around the world for … Egg Boi needs your support for Money for EggBoi

www.gofundme.com

 

[Maggie5]

So it's the high profile that you would object to rather than the religion. Thanks for your honesty, it adds to the discussion.

If they weren't high profile, would we be discussing?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The election result showed that there is a huge disconnect between the views of ordinary Australians and those in academia, the public service and corporate executive positions. The competitive victimhood narrative originated in academia but has now been absorbed as orthodoxy in our institutions, all the way from schools to the armed forces.

rrrrrrrrightttttttt......

 

[raskolnikov]

He condemned about 7 groups of people to hell.

6 of whom have some kind of choice over their behaviour.

 

[Downhill Skier]

.

Thanks for that background; you clearly know a lot more about employment law than me.

But I reckon if the court DOES find that contract law takes precedence over the relevant employment regulations, well, given that he breached once and was warned, Folau will have a very hard time doing a Gilbert O’Sullivan and convincing the court that he signed the contract when not in full knowledge of the implications of the clauses it contained.

His previous contract would have no bearing on this though . This was his first breach . The same argument could be reversed to say you knew the risks of re-signing Folau under a new contract and went ahead and did it anyway .

That’s the hilarious thing . People call FOLAU greedy but the only reason the ARU re-signed FOLAU in the first place is that they wanted to line their own pockets

People claim FOLAU brought this on himself . So
So did the ARU

 

[Tiger08]

If the person was a high profile sports person who breached the code of conduct of his sport in the same circumstances and then sought $3M to help his legals costs? Yes I think I would. Would you?

I most definitively wouldn't donate and I would be surprised if those that have contributed to Folau would either.

If this was Bachar Houli quoting the same passage from the Koran, no way does he get kicked out of the league.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

The election result showed that there is a huge disconnect between the views of ordinary Australians and those in academia, the public service and corporate executive positions. The competitive victimhood narrative originated in academia but has now been absorbed as orthodoxy in our institutions, all the way from schools to the armed forces.

I mean for starters, the election result shows nothing of the sort.

You’re forgetting that the outcome was extremely close. Morrison ended up with a one-seat majority, the same precarious result as before. We’re still only one heart attack away from minority government and no-confidence motions.

The only reason the election result was so dramatic was because everyone (including the government and the Murdoch press) thought Labor was going to win.

 

[skipper kelly]

If they weren't high profile, would we be discussing?

I thanked you for your honesty. This discussion is very layered and it's good to hear all opinions especially the honest ones.

To answer your question, it would depend on if the media one gets their information from highlighted it. Plenty of low profile people get into the media for their actions.

Thanks again for your honesty as it adds to the discussion.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Thanks for that background; you clearly know a lot more about employment law than me.

But I reckon if the court DOES find that contract law takes precedence over the relevant employment regulations, well, given that he breached once and was warned, Folau will have a very hard time doing a Gilbert O’Sullivan and convincing the court that he signed the contract when not in full knowledge of the implications of the clauses it contained.

There's an even higher court which can come in to play here. A court that has the power to strike out contracts, and the legislation on which they are based.

".....a pretended law made in excess of power is not and never has been a law at all. Anybody in the country is entitled to disregard it. Naturally he will feel safer if he has a decision of a court in his favour........but such a decision is not an element which produces invalidity in any law. The law is not valid until a court pronounces against it......and thereafter invalid. If it is beyond power, it is invalid ab initio." - South Australia v Commonwealth (1942) 65 CLR 373, 408 (Latham CJ).

"..........an unconstitutional act is not a law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; it affords no protection; it creates no offices; it is, in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed." - Haskins v Commonwealth (2011) 244 CLR 22, 42 (French CJ, Gummow, Hayne, Crennan, Kiefel and Bell JJ)

 

[Downhill Skier]

6 of whom have some kind of choice over their behaviour.

Behaviour is a choice though . It’s not the loving part that is the issue in Christianity , it’s the physical part which can be considered a choice .

I don’t agree with it but if that’s the case you could say the same thing about adulterers. They had an attraction to a female and it’s not a choice

 

[raskolnikov]

Behaviour is a choice though . It’s not the loving part that is the issue in Christianity , it’s the physical part which can be considered a choice .

I don’t agree with it but if that’s the case you could say the same thing about adulterers. They had an attraction to a female and it’s not a choice

Ridiculous analogy.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Behaviour is a choice though .

Come again?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

.

His previous contract would have no bearing on this though . This was his first breach . The same argument could be reversed to say you knew the risks of re-signing Folau under a new contract and went ahead and did it anyway .

That’s the hilarious thing . People call FOLAU greedy but the only reason the ARU re-signed FOLAU in the first place is that they wanted to line their own pockets

People claim FOLAU brought this on himself . So
So did the ARU

I didn’t know there was a fresh contract. (Really haven’t followed this story very closely; it bores me.)

Are you sure?

And if there was indeed a second contract, I’d be very surprised if RA didn’t include the exact same clauses about protecting their “brand”

 

[Maggie5]

If this was Bachar Houli quoting the same passage from the Koran, no way does he get kicked out of the league.

But it wasn't. Maybe he just follows the terms of his employment.

To answer your question, it would depend on if the media one gets their information from highlighted it. Plenty of low profile people get into the media for their actions.

Thanks again for your honesty as it adds to the discussion.

Not sure the media would take up the case in the same way. I don't read all items in the media and quite likely would have missed it therefore unlikely to post.
Not sure what this has to do with honesty.

 

[Downhill Skier]

Come again?

The sexual act is a choice , which is what is considered a sin

 

[Snake_Baker]

Why has Folau's profession been targeted and not his church?

Are the SJW's too cowardly to take on anything more than an individual?

 

[Downhill Skier]

Ridiculous analogy.

It’s not ridiculous dude . Do you choose to have sex with someone or not . You can disagree with the stance but you can’t say it is not a choice

 

[Snake_Baker]

The sexual act is a choice , which is what is considered a sin

Yeah, what you are stating is incredibly complex and does not solely involve choice.

 

[Downhill Skier]

I didn’t know there was a fresh contract. (Really haven’t followed this story very closely; it bores me.)

Are you sure?

And if there was indeed a second contract, I’d be very surprised if RA didn’t include the exact same clauses about protecting their “brand”

Yes he signed the 4 million dollar contract after the original alleged breach . The clause was allegedly a generic inclusiveness clause supposedly.

 

[Downhill Skier]

Yeah, what you are stating is incredibly complex and does not solely involve choice.

I don’t know how you can argue the physical act of sex is not a choice .