Religion Folau

Herne Hill Hammer

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Isn't this thread about Rugby Australia and their right to breach Folau for religious bigotry and discrimination? I wouldn't like to see that taken away particularly from a sporting organisation.
It is, but you were the one that posed the question so I was just asking for examples of what, hypothetically, Hizb ut-Tahrir and the Australian Christian Lobby, if they joined forces could petition the Government for with regards to extra protections of religious freedoms that they don't already receive?
 

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randyzany

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I find it really difficult not to suspect partisan zealotry from anybody who sledged Abdel Magied but is now fiercely backing Folau.
I didn't give a sh*t about either, it's only extremists from the right an left who are prone to throwing hissy fits when one their precious sacred cows are being 'attacked'.

He deliberately trolled Rugby Australia Lebbo in reposting the same meme they objected to a year before. His motivation the second time was not to save anybody.
Homosexuality being a sin is a core belief among the vast majority of Christians not only in Australia but millions, if not billions, around the world. What you are essentially asking is that Christians residing in Australia be forced to tamper with the Bible and change one of the most important tenets (along with adultery, fornication, etc...) of the New Testament to appease and suit a bunch of people (i.e. hard left) who openly mock and ridicule it because they think it's a bunch of fairy tales.

I doubt that the reverse, that gays accept that their sexuality is sinful or else risk getting fired from their workplace for propagating immoral behaviour in society, would be tolerated by so-called progressives and would be squealing probably louder for how unfair and undemocratic that would be. Sometimes you just have to live and let live, there's always gonna be something that a person with different values from our own can find offensive but to lose work and other revenue opportunities as a result of it is beyond the pale.

As long as a Christian sentiments expressed in public aren't advocating real physical violence against members of a particular community this request (forcing changes in Christian doctrine to make it palatable to hard left thinking who enjoy denigrating Christianity) is way out line and bordering on the demands of a police state. I've said this again and again, Australia is not a Christian theocracy where you have no choice but to accept what Folau has reiterated from the Bible. You and your like minded friends can easily ignore his warning and move on to what it is that you want to do next. You are not obliged to follow his beliefs just like Folau and other Christians shouldn't be strong armed to recalibrate their values to align with that of the hard left's.
 
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shellyg

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It is, but you were the one that posed the question so I was just asking for examples of what, hypothetically, Hizb ut-Tahrir and the Australian Christian Lobby, if they joined forces could petition the Government for with regards to extra protections of religious freedoms that they don't already receive?
You continue to answer me with questions, what I asked was pretty simple.
 

Opine

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We've already got that so I don't see the point...
Recommendation 15 of the report issued to the PM on 18th May 2018 by the expert Panel on the Religious Freedom Review concluded that;
The Commonwealth should amend the Racial Discrimination Act 1975, or enact a Religious Discrimination Act, to render it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of a person’s ‘religious belief or activity’, including on the basis that a person does not hold any religious belief. In doing so, consideration should be given to providing for appropriate exceptions and exemptions, including for religious bodies, religious schools and charities.
 

Socrates2

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Tim Costello telling christians to pull there heads in.
But Reverend Costello doesn’t believe a Religious Freedom Act is necessary, calling for the debate to focus on “respect rather than rights”.
“I think we can coexist and that’s why I talk about respect rather than rights, with different beliefs and visions flourishing. That’s good for society. We don’t just look to the state or look to the individual.”


Respect!!!!! Hey Issy , have you read this?
Tim Costello is a genuine bloke who helps people, the people pushing the unnecessary religion freedoms act are fringe right wing nuts who are not true christians at all .We all know that. Christians are supposed to be for social justice but many are not, they are called pseudo christians and Jesus would spit on them.
Most of you blokes who love what Filou is doing are nothing more than homophobes and hypocrites.
 

Socrates2

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Recommendation 15 of the report issued to the PM on 18th May 2018 by the expert Panel on the Religious Freedom Review concluded that;
The Commonwealth should amend the Racial Discrimination Act 1975, or enact a Religious Discrimination Act, to render it unlawful to discriminate on the basis of a person’s ‘religious belief or activity’, including on the basis that a person does not hold any religious belief. In doing so, consideration should be given to providing for appropriate exceptions and exemptions, including for religious bodies, religious schools and charities.
How can you call it an expert panel when it's full of hateful Cory Bernadi types? What extra freedoms do u want that you dont have now? Is it to protect extremely wealthy homophobic sportsmen who can't keep their word? Fight to the death for that lol and gmab
 

Opine

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How can you call it an expert panel when it's full of hateful Cory Bernadi types? What extra freedoms do u want that you dont want now? Is it to protect extremely wealthy homophobic sportsmen who can't keep their word? Fight to the death for that lol and gmab
According to that panel's terms of reference, it was chaired by the Hon Philip Ruddock, and consisted of:
• Emeritus Professor Rosalind Croucher AM
• The Hon Dr Annabelle Bennett AO SC
• Fr Frank Brennan SJ AO
• Professor Nicholas Aroney.

It was supported by a secretariat led by the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet.

The panel's objective was to examine and report on whether Australian law (Commonwealth, State and Territory) adequately protects the human right to freedom of religion.
 

shellyg

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How can you call it an expert panel when it's full of hateful Cory Bernadi types? What extra freedoms do u want that you dont have now? Is it to protect extremely wealthy homophobic sportsmen who can't keep their word? Fight to the death for that lol and gmab
They want the positive right to express religious opinions even where they breach employment codes of conduct on top of the right as a protected attribute to discriminate against LGBT kids in schools, the easy targets.

The ACL, pumped up on it's bloated coffers won't stop there.
 

Sainteric

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I have no motivation to apologise for, or demonise Christianity, nor allow my prejudices to filter my perspective. That both “bad” and “good” can come from the same source, or that something integral to one stage of development must be abandoned to reach the next, is not incongruent to me; it is normal, even expected.

Take the free market economy, fiat monetary system and representative democracy as an example; it’s been a factor in unlocking all kinds of human potential, both “good” and “bad”, but it is not the final destination. At some point (I expect) humanity will happen upon something better and who knows, perhaps someone will do similar to you down the track and point to throw offs like pollution, corruption, wage gaps, child lab

The fact remains that Christian groups like the Quakers, who led the abolition of slavery, did so on the basis of Gosepl
Lol, you need to listen to Tim Costello my christian friend, a bigot is a bigot ,a homophobe is a homophobe and an ex-drunken womeniser is a hypocrite. Everyone knows that Filou and his wife are the two biggest jerks in Australia.
I think we alrea
Here is an article after the meeting with RA in 2018 following his homophobic comments.
Interesting to see he said he would walk away from rugby which shows he knew his comments were in conflict with RA.


Issy wanted to play the knowledgeable hero but has just been shown to be a hate filled buffoon.
He wanted to convert the world to his stupid ideals and in doing so keep making comments which were homophobic and contravened RA policy.
He's been posting homophobic rubbish for a while now.Australia already has religious freedom, probably more so than any one country.
He didn't break any laws whatsover, he reneged on his word and his contract and was sacked by the sponsors. He is totally free to post his hateful messages. If he is so principled, why is he begging for money off people who can't afford it? He has probably 8 million dollars in the bank from his AFL and rugby salaries yet I sit in amazement at the conga line of backward hateful people rushing to defend him. The guy is a jerk, he can leave Australia and go live in the Philippines if he wants, they hate gays over there.
I'm surprised at how many people fall for this freedom of speech crap, he broke a contract not to be a hateful homophobe, that's why he was sacked.
Maybe if he wins his case, 'poofta bashing' will come back into vogue .That would be great wouldn't it .
What sort of a-hole defends George Pell and Israel Filou? They are called hateful religious zealots and don't belong in this country.
Bigots against christians, we get.it.
 

Socrates2

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Bigots against christians, we get.it.
No christisns are ok, it's the hateful homophobe hypocrites we dont like.Filou was a drunk drug taking womeniser for years, what right does he have to judge someone else, at least that is what Jesus would say.
 

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Opine

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They want the positive right to express religious opinions ...
That is reasonably understandable, given that, as highlighted @ [1.24] of the report I referred to above, based on 2016 census, religion remains an important aspect of Australia's social fabric; 52.1% of the Australian population reported as Christian, 2.6% Islamic and 2.4 Buddhism.
 

Socrates2

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That is reasonably understandable, given that based on 2016 census, religion remains an important aspect of Australia's social fabric; 52.1% of the Australian population reported as Christian, 2.6% Islamic and 2.4 Buddhism.
How many Christians go to church? They are dropping like flies, would be less than 7% of the population that go to church regularly. They only call themselves christian because their parents got them baptised. Since the royal commission into church paedophilia cover ups, attendance has dropped dramatically and so it should. The ones that are still left seem to be the antithesis of Jesus , they vote for racist parties, hate immigrants and don't care for social justice.
 

Opine

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How many Christians go to church? They are dropping like flies, would be less than 7% of the population that go to church regularly. They only call themselves christian because their parents got them baptised. Since the royal commission into church paedophilia cover ups, attendance has dropped dramatically and so it should. The ones that are still left seem to be the antithesis of Jesus , they vote for racist parties, hate immigrants and don't care for social justice.
Ok.
 

Kwality

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How many Christians go to church? They are dropping like flies, would be less than 7% of the population that go to church regularly. They only call themselves christian because their parents got them baptised. Since the royal commission into church paedophilia cover ups, attendance has dropped dramatically and so it should. The ones that are still left seem to be the antithesis of Jesus , they vote for racist parties, hate immigrants and don't care for social justice.
Are you targeting Christians only?
 

shellyg

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That is reasonably understandable, given that, as highlighted @ [1.24] of the report I referred to above, based on 2016 census, religion remains an important aspect of Australia's social fabric; 52.1% of the Australian population reported as Christian, 2.6% Islamic and 2.4 Buddhism.

You chopped my opinion up after saying you respected it and left the best part out. Here it is again. "They want the positive right to express religious opinions even where they breach employment codes of conduct on top of the right as a protected attribute to discriminate against LGBT kids in schools, the easy targets.

Take no notice of the 2016 census figures, it was a debacle.
 

Kwality

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You chopped my opinion up after saying you respected it and left the best part out. Here it is again. "They want the positive right to express religious opinions even where they breach employment codes of conduct on top of the right as a protected attribute to discriminate against LGBT kids in schools, the easy targets.

Take no notice of the 2016 census figures, it was a debacle.
Isnt the issue here the employment code of contract, if/when the code is introduced, if/when its modified, is the employee required to abide by the modified document into which they had NO input.

More practically, why would you send LGBT kids to a religious school if you dont agree with what they are exposed to, almost as silly as following a religious type on social media.
 

shellyg

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Isnt the issue here the employment code of contract, if/when the code is introduced, if/when its modified, is the employee required to abide by the modified document into which they had NO input.

More practically, why would you send LGBT kids to a religious school if you dont agree with what they are exposed to, almost as silly as following a religious type on social media.
I'll quote Fr Frank Brennan, he was on the Religious Freedom Review Panel. Folau traded his freedom of religious expression away and he signed the contract.

"I’m one who strongly advocates freedom of expression and the capacity of employers to interfere with that freedom of expression I think as a society a lot of us say no we don’t think you should be able to do that. But equally with freedom of contract those who want to trade it away, so be it."


From kindergarten to high school, kids change. 'Oh, Billy is wearing pinks socks around the house. Should I take him out of school?" Just leave the poor kid alone right and let him be happy in his socks.
 
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Opine

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You chopped my opinion up after saying you respected it and left the best part out. Here it is again. "They want the positive right to express religious opinions even where they breach employment codes of conduct on top of the right as a protected attribute to discriminate against LGBT kids in schools, the easy targets.

Take no notice of the 2016 census figures, it was a debacle.
I chose to focus on a very narrow aspect of your post because it provided an opportunity to highlight what I believe to be a pertinent point on the broader issue of protection of freedom of religion generally; on that basis I'm most appreciate of your original post for providing that platform.

The rest of your post seems to want to venture into a factual scenario that appears to resemble the matter soon to be decided by a court; you should wait for that finding.
 

Kwality

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I'll quote Fr Frank Brennan, he was on the Religious Freedom Review Panel. Folau traded his freedom of religious expression away and he signed the contract.

"I’m one who strongly advocates freedom of expression and the capacity of employers to interfere with that freedom of expression I think as a society a lot of us say no we don’t think you should be able to do that. But equally with freedom of contract those who want to trade it away, so be it."


From kindergarten to high school, kids change. 'Oh, Billy is wearing pinks socks around the house. Should I take him out of school?" Just leave the poor kid alone right and let him be happy in his socks.
Read that.
Specific to the Folau case, whether or not Folau traded away his religious expression is (to me) the crux of the Court case. If he has, why would the case not get tossed out?
 
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