Religion Folau

Evolved1

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Undue influence? ummm ok.
If fundamentalist Christians spent their time and energy policing themselves rather than seeking to impose their morality over this nation, nobody would give a s**t. Die a slow painful death for god if you see that as a dignified end, but leave the rational folk alone.

I would personally appreciate the opportunity to vote against Christian marital rights. Allowing Christians to legally marry is in oppostion to my faith and values. :devil:
 

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Evolved1

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I have no motivation to apologise for, or demonise Christianity, nor allow my prejudices to filter my perspective. That both “bad” and “good” can come from the same source, or that something integral to one stage of development must be abandoned to reach the next, is not incongruent to me; it is normal, even expected.

Take the free market economy, fiat monetary system and representative democracy as an example; it’s been a factor in unlocking all kinds of human potential, both “good” and “bad”, but it is not the final destination. At some point (I expect) humanity will happen upon something better and who knows, perhaps someone will do similar to you down the track and point to throw offs like pollution, corruption, wage gaps, child labour etc and claim no positive impact.

The Old Testament verses I won’t bother addressing, as I was talking about Gospel teachings.

The Gospel verse you quote from Jesus does not at all support your point. This was a simile, comparing the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven, to the workings of Kings and servants on earth, not tacit approval of slavery. Slavery and servitude is pre-Christian. In the Roman Empire it’s was as normal as a 9-5 job is today and was the ultimate lifelong fate of many Christian’s. Finding metaphors and references to slavery in any texts from these times, and then putting them forward as tacit approval of slavery, is just poor critical thinking or bias.

The fact remains that Christian groups like the Quakers, who led the abolition of slavery, did so on the basis of Gosepl teachings. That’s those the same teachings inspired Dr. Martin Luther King contributions to civil rights. If you have trouble accepting historical fact because of a belief you hold, then not much can be discussed rationally.
The religious text that Jesus followed was the tanakh, a book that is unashamedly pro-slavery. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian, so there is no reason to believe he opposed slavery.

There's really no point repeating the same points ad nauseum so I'll leave you be on that high horse of yours.
 

Kwality

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If fundamentalist Christians spent their time and energy policing themselves rather than seeking to impose their morality over this nation, nobody would give a s**t. Die a slow painful death for god if you see that as a dignified end, but leave the rational folk alone.

I would personally appreciate the opportunity to vote against Christian marital rights. Allowing Christians to legally marry is in oppostion to my faith and values. :devil:
Do not know one person who cares whether anyone has religious views, but they sure as hell wont have anything pushed down their throats, for or against.
 
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Evolved1

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This is what I don't understand. They already have special rights to discriminate, WTF else do they want? How much more protection does it need?

Religion of all stripes has got in behind the ACL, scratch around you'll find it.
The end goal of fundamentalist followers of the Abrahamic faiths is a theocracy, and they'll continue playing politics until they get it. Anything less denies god his rightful place on the throne to govern this nation and the world.
 

Evolved1

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Do not know one person who cares whether anyone has religious views. but they sure as hell wont have anything pushed down their throats, for or against.
38.4% of Australians voted against gay marriage equality. How many of those who voted 'no' did so because they were pushing their religious 'values' down the throats of others?
 

Opine

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If fundamentalist Christians spent their time and energy policing themselves rather than seeking to impose their morality over this nation, nobody would give a s**t. Die a slow painful death for god if you see that as a dignified end, but leave the rational folk alone.

I would personally appreciate the opportunity to vote against Christian marital rights. Allowing Christians to legally marry is in oppostion to my faith and values. :devil:
Am I supposed to feel unduly influenced after reading your post?
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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How many Christians go to church? They are dropping like flies, would be less than 7% of the population that go to church regularly. They only call themselves christian because their parents got them baptised. Since the royal commission into church paedophilia cover ups, attendance has dropped dramatically and so it should. The ones that are still left seem to be the antithesis of Jesus , they vote for racist parties, hate immigrants and don't care for social justice.
Attending church doesn't make you any more or less a Christian, just as going to a game of footy or watching it on tv doesn't make me any less a footy fan.
 

Evolved1

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Yes, your position appears to be consistently on the side of atheistic , or non-theistic belief.
In anycase, it's clear that your advocating for removal of freedom to publicly express a theistic belief.

Importantly, the originating source of the protection in your "WTF do they want" comment is arguably Article 18 of the ICCPR. The Human Rights Committee has interpreted the phrases religion and belief, in that Article, as incorporating theistic, non-theistic and atheistic beliefs, as well as the right not to profess any religion or belief. That logically translates into a protection of the right to hold and express anti-theistic or atheistic beliefs, as well as the right to hold and express theistic belief; such as those which you're seemingly in preference of driving underground into the private realm.

If you're ok with limiting the expression of theistic beliefs, then you should also expect that the same limitations would apply to opposing beliefs. Otherwise, all you are really advocating for is the right of one ideology over another; and that is not what the protections seek to do.
Non theistic belief? :drunk:

There is no atheistic ideology.
 

Opine

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Non theistic belief? :drunk:

There is no atheistic ideology.
That may or may not be so. But it is the adopted legal definition, and it underpins related rights and obligations that you are likely going to be bound by; along with the rest of us. So we move on.
 

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Kwality

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The end goal of fundamentalist followers of the Abrahamic faiths is a theocracy, and they'll continue playing politics until they get it. Anything less denies god his rightful place on the throne to govern this nation and the world.
Maybe its just me but, what are you talking about, just how it relates to the Folau issue would do me.
 

Slartibartfast

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Bigots against christians, we get.it.
You stated no meeting happened last year,I just showed you the proof. Issy was fully aware that he was treading a fine line.
So that make me a bigot. Hahaha

Hiding behind your hate???
Issy chose to vilify homosexuals , how can you try justify this??
 

Monkey King

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The religious text that Jesus followed was the tanakh, a book that is unashamedly pro-slavery. Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian, so there is no reason to believe he opposed slavery.

There's really no point repeating the same points ad nauseum so I'll leave you be on that high horse of yours.
Who said Jesus opposed slavery? It would not be incongruent for Jesus to be a slave owner and his teachings still influence others centuries later to fight for abolition. One doesn’t cancel out the other. Fallacious reasoning.

Anyway, there is no evidence Jesus supported slavery. There is no evidence Jesus opposed slavery. He owned no slaves and his teachings were of equality, so we can say that he did not promote nor engage in such things; just as we can say his teachings were the stated inspiration of abolitionists and civil rights activists.

Happy to stop at your ironic last sentence. You sit in judgement of Folau and his religion, make unsupported accusations and ignore historical fact. If my pleas for you think more objectively put me on a high horse, then yeee hawww!
 

Seeds

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But his beliefs are bigoted and disgusting.

Had he kept his light under a bushel he’d be fine.

Now we’re all looking at him like the idiot he is and... he spent how much to say he hates the gays?
So you disagree with his religion. So do I. How do we stop relgion in a world where most liberals want religious tolerance?
 

Seeds

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Yep I sign contracts on a regular basis and they almost 100% have a no-media comment clause, or a no-adverse exposure/comment clause that prohibits me from undertaking in any activity, including commenting on social media, that is likely to have an adverse or negative affect on the principal.

I sign these contracts in the full knowledge of what this means, Folau knew, if he didn't agree to this term, then he should have negotiated this out of his contract. Now he breached the terms of his contract and the RWNJ and yelling religious oppression!

The irony of this is, the same people who are now yelling about Folau being unfairly dismissed, are the same RWNJ who claimed that unfair dismissal laws are unfair to employers, and employers should be able to terminate employees for any reason.
You are giving far too much power to corporations. Just because you signed away your social media freedom doesnt mean we all should have to.

Folau is a rugby player who faces close to a monopoly in terms of a employer. He cant go and play elite rugby union for another australian employer. He has no power in any negotiation. He had no choice to sign the contract in front of him no matter how much he disagreed with the media terms.
 

yodellinhank

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You are giving far too much power to corporations. Just because you signed away your social media freedom doesnt mean we all should have to.

Folau is a rugby player who faces close to a monopoly in terms of a employer. He cant go and play elite rugby union for another australian employer. He has no power in any negotiation. He had no choice to sign the contract in front of him no matter how much he disagreed with the media terms.
Tell it to the federal court:
The legal consequences of Mr Hird and the 34 Players voluntarily entering into the contractual regime with Essendon and the AFL, and subjecting themselves to the Player Rules and AFL Code, included undertaking certain obligations and relinquishing certain rights
 
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