Religion Folau

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Taylor

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Plenty of clubs have restrictions on character, actions or activities in order to be welcome. Particularly denial of what would be described as a base instinct, such as eating something, having something inside you, having yourself inside someone else, not consuming anything while the sun is shining in a special month etc.

This particular version of the christian God would like it if people don't have sex with the same sex, even if that same god challenged them with finding them really, really tasty. That's just the avenue you take to prove to your god that you're worthy.

You suck it up, lay back and hetero your bum off because that's the rule and you get into heaven.

Now if it's all made up, you've just denied some enjoyment of your body and that's unfortunate.

But if you believe that it is real then you're presented with a choice.
 

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Taylor

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So pre marital sex is an aberration too then is it?
Sex restricted to purely after marriage smells like one of those things a society that recognizes that women raising children alone leads to a worse outcome to having two adults to fund, raise and care for a child would be promoting.
 

raskolnikov

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That which deviates from the standard or normal. Limited to a small minority.

I will quote from a journal of psychiatry ....


The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973.
 

Taylor

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The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973.
I'm glad to hear they are free of political influence and found the naturally occurring pathology of homosexuality, as they did with gender dysphoria recently too.
 

Crankitup

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Pretty obvious I would have thought.

Well you thought it was pretty obvious that the Paul Murray I quoted from earlier in the thread was a flog and then accused him of other things until you found out that the Paul Murray I quoted was different to the Paul Murray you had in mind.
 

raskolnikov

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Well you thought it was pretty obvious that the Paul Murray I quoted from earlier in the thread was a flog and then accused him of other things until you found out that the Paul Murray I quoted was different to the Paul Murray you had in mind.

And this drivel is relevant how?
 

kranky al

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That which deviates from the standard or normal. Limited to a small minority.

I will quote from a journal of psychiatry ....

Where the original article came from.

A psychiatric journal from a country that only legalised gay sex last year and where the stigma of homosexuality is closer to where we were in the 50’s.

I wonder if you would get a different view in say the lancet?
 
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Evolved1

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In your opinion.
When did you choose to be heterosexual?
He didn't say that though. They are your words.
The bible can be used to justify race based discrimination just as easily as that based on discrimination. Discrimination against homosexuals seems to be more socially acceptable, for now at least.
 

Evolved1

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Are you sure? You are probably of the opinion that people are sexual automatons with no power of choice over their sexual behaviour. I disagree. I think it's definitely more of a choice than being born black. Many "gays" probably pander to society's prevailing view that they were "born that way" and "can't help it" but many others are more courageous and tell a much different story. They unashamedly and categorically affirm that for them it IS a choice.
Yes I'm sure. Scientific studies have shown that sexuality has a biological basis.

Given the way that homosexuals have been demonised by society, why would anyone choose to be gay? It makes no sense.
 

Evolved1

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How about you consider the reasoned arguments of lesbian feminist author Karla Mantilla in an article entitled 'Biology My Ass', extracts from which I'll give below.
Quoting from your link, saying "Hunger may be biological, but eating M&Ms is a choice".

That's a really shitty analogy about sexuality tbh.

Both our sexuality and the desire to eat are biological, while eating ANYTHING is a choice. That's a much more accurate analogy.
 

Evolved1

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If you're referring to a gay gene that was debunked years ago.
Not at all. Few people with any sense thought that a complex sociobiological aspect like sexuality could be factored down to a single gene.

Look into monozygotic twin studies, especially those raised apart, and you'll find some interesting statistics.
 

raskolnikov

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You can GAGF as far as I'm concerned.

I will be. Tonight. By another guy. Deal with it.
You were mistaken then. So you could be mistaken again. But I couldn't care less. You can GAGF as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: This might appear harsh but I haven't had much time for you since this post => #6,416.

I couldn't give a fu** if it's harsh or not or whether you have much time for me. And I was only stating a fact.
 

Evolved1

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Getting back to Folau I don't think he was very tactful in what he did but it was still better than what the progessive elements in the church do. They welcome those who see themselves as 'born that way' and pat them on the back telling them what they want to hear. By preaching tolerance of homosexual behaviour they think they are loving the homosexual. They twist scripture and use warped logic to categorise such behaviour as normal. In reality they deumanize homosexuals, portraying them as mere animals, unable to resist their 'natural' desires. This removes moral responsibilty from them belying the fact that according to the Bible they supposedly believe in, we are all created in the image of God, with the power to make moral choices.

I suppose it's a reflection of how much society has changed in that large elements of it now view the Christian God as a prejudiced bigot for laying out boundaries for normal sexual behaviour and even more so for stridently warning us if we transgress those boundaries, we do so at our own cost (1 Cor 6:18).

Maybe one day society will move so far that it will come to believe there should be no real boundaries on sexual behaviour at all. Where will that leave us? What about people who feel like having sex with animals or young children? Will society come to believe them as being "born that way" and not to be condemned for just pursuing their 'natural' inclinations? Hopefully not.
Some would call it a moral choice to reject the bible. Each to their own, huh?

If we're not animals, are we vegetables? Personally, I like Agent Smith's analogy where he calls humans viruses.

Non-human animals and children can't give consent to have sex with adult humans, mate. Adults are more than capable of engaging in consensual sex with other adults. If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to participate.
 

Evolved1

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I didn't equate them at all. Read what I wrote again. I questioned whether we will reach a point where such people are not condemned and are instead viewed as just pawns of their biology without the power of making a moral choice.
Given that Australia isn't a theocracy, your ideas about morality don't have much relevance here in 2019.

Other than religious-based reasons, which in itself aren't based on logic, there's no reason to see homosexuality as abnormal, disgusting, or evil.

The correct moral choice is to reject Abrahamic religions imho.
 

Evolved1

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Where do you get 'hundreds of hours' from. Comprehension and maths obviously not a strong suit. Most of them are from here http://www.queerbychoice.com/
That was a site I was directed to years ago when I thought the same way as you and challenged someone to direct me to a single instance of someone choosing to be gay. Each snippet takes less than a minute to read.



Artciles? I haven't looked for or posted any articles.



The same person who directed me to that website years ago also challenged me to match the number of people who have explicitly said they chose, with an equal number that have explicitly said choice played no role or they were 'born that way'. I lost the challenge because I hardly found any. Hence why my outlook on the issue changed. Unlike some others I have no problem changing my view regardless of my presuppositions.
If you wanted to, could you choose to look at the hairy starfish of another man and be enticed to eat of that delicious fruit? :think:
 

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