Religion Folau

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Opine said:
Thanks, your response provides an opportunity to once again touch on an important point.

While you might be technically correct, as previously mentioned, for the purposes of establishing the scope of the right to hold and express a religious belief, the UN Human Rights Committee has adopted a broad approach to the term “religion;” it has said that ‘religion’ should be interpreted broadly to include ‘theistic, non-theistic and atheistic beliefs, as well as the right not to profess any religion or belief. It’s clear that atheism has been intentionally treated as a religious belief, otherwise the UNHRC would not have made additional express reference to “the right not to profess any religion or belief;” you can see this for yourself in UN Human Rights Committee, General Comment 22, Article 18 (Forty-eighth session, 1993), UN Doc. CCPR/C/21/Rev.1/Add.4 (1993).

if you prefer the above explanation in the context of an Australian jurisdiction look here http://humanrights.vgso.vic.gov.au/...reedom-thought-conscience-religion-and-belief. The report referred to earlier, to which you initially responded, adopts the same approach; treating atheism as a religion.

Why is this important?; because in light of the broad scope of the term “religion,” limiting the right to express a theistic belief will logically result in limiting the right to express a non-theistic and or an atheistic belief. Add to this the many forms by which those beliefs/non beliefs can be expressed and we arguably end up with censorship of art, music, written, electronic, etc etc etc etc.
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I do like the broader concept of religion as quoted above, because it satisfies a number of anomalies for me. I consider philosophy as encompassing religion, political and philosophical beliefs, etc., and virtually all human thought. So your concerns are well-founded, imho.
Burgess-Jackson's Taxonomy of Religion (2017) contains the following:
• A religion is theistic when it posits (i.e., assumes as a fact; postulates) the existence of at least one personal god.
• A religion is atheistic when it does not posit the existence of at least one personal god.
• A religion is monotheistic when it posits the existence of exactly one personal god.
• A religion is polytheistic when it posits the existence of more than one personal god.
We could get into the semantics of "belief" vs "personally held opinion" vs "philosophical posit" vs "religion", but do need to discern atheism and theism as "religions" in the broader sense. Jainism and Buddhism are each atheistic religions- having no deities. However they could also be considered within the (rather insipid?) description of 'spiritual'.
So we can have spiritual atheism and non-spiritual atheism.
Humanism is a philosophically-based atheism, I would think.
 
shellyg said:
See this Christian family who argued paying taxes was against God's will and had to pay $2.3 million? And here is what Justice holt said.


"I believe the submissions to be honestly and genuinely held beliefs rather than an attempt to avoid tax liabilities.

"But in my view, the Bible effectively said that civil matters and the law of God operate in two different spheres."

www.abc.net.au

Family who argued taxes 'against God's will' ordered to pay $2.3m bill

A family that refused to pay tax because it was "against God's will" are ordered to pay $2.3 million in outstanding taxes and other bills, as the judge tells them 'thou shalt not pay tax' is not in the Bible.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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Yep! When queried on whether to pay taxes, Jesus said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21
Even Jesus acknowledged the separation of church and state.
 
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Monniehawk said:
Yep! When queried on whether to pay taxes, Jesus said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21
Even Jesus acknowledged the separation of church and state.
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If there was ever an historical figure we have come to know as Jesus the words that are attributed to him were probably written by someone who never met him.
 
ep2018 said:
Where my Christian mates have premarital sex and treat everyone (mostly) equal (I unfortunately do know a couple who are bigots) etc.
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Considering what the bible says about pre-marital sex, you can't call yourself a Christian, have sex before marriage, and still claim you are a Christian

Say what you will about the fundamentalists, but at least they are actually trying to follow that crazy book to a tee, which is what the book says a Christian has to do. Except their behaviour only shows what a dangerous book it is

Those kind of cherry picking Christians who only claim to be a Christian when it suits them or pick out certain bits of the bible to fit their own lives are as dangerous as the fundamentalists, because you'll just end up with those kind of dicks who wouldn't pay income tax because they selectively apply their religion to wiggle out of their responsibilities. Religion just ended up being the get out of jail free card for these people to use when it suits them
 
Whats happened to Folau in this thread
Cooldude said:
Considering what the bible says about pre-marital sex, you can't call yourself a Christian, have sex before marriage, and still claim you are a Christian

Say what you will about the fundamentalists, but at least they are actually trying to follow that crazy book to a tee, which is what the book says a Christian has to do. Except their behaviour only shows what a dangerous book it is

Those kind of cherry picking Christians who only claim to be a Christian when it suits them or pick out certain bits of the bible to fit their own lives are as dangerous as the fundamentalists, because you'll just end up with those kind of dicks who wouldn't pay income tax because they selectively apply their religion to wiggle out of their responsibilities. Religion just ended up being the get out of jail free card for these people to use when it suits them
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Interesting your view of what a Christian must do ... news flash, your view doesnt count.
 
Kwality said:
Whats happened to Folau in this thread


Interesting your view of what a Christian must do ... news flash, your view doesnt count.
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My view clearly counts as it seems to trigger you

It isn't my view, it's the bible's view

Christians love to tell gay people how to live their lives but no one can tell them to, why you stopping muh freee speeech? I thought you were a freedumb warrior
 
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So it's a pretend church, they might is well believe in Elvis Presley as the son of god for all the credibility Issy's "church" has. This is just sad now, he's clearly being used and being blessed with an iq that would struggle to reach room temperature he just can't see it.
 
A semi close mate of mine from high school was indoctrinated by a group called church of the living god.

Sounds like the same thing as the Truth of Jesus Christ. Turns a normal bloke into a complete lost cause.
 
Cooldude said:
My view clearly counts as it seems to trigger you

It isn't my view, it's the bible's view

Christians love to tell gay people how to live their lives but no one can tell them to, why you stopping muh freee speeech? I thought you were a freedumb warrior
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indeed because many of those who identify as Christians are sinners as defined by the Bible/Folau yet are the people that carried the same sex marriage referendum.
Perhaps you are trying to identify those who go to Church regularly?

There are those who seek to tell others how to live their lives, as you are telling Christians how they should.
Personally I can accomodate both views.
 
Kate McClyrmont doing a job on Folau's church and it's quite good but scary.

The Folau's church has been described by someone who went to have a look as an 'isolated hate group'. The Folau's believe Catholicism is the Synagogue of Satan and that homosexuality is a sin worthy of death.

A Christian parent of a promising young rugby player was concerned when Israel Folau began inviting players to his church. The parent decided to find out for herself what the Folaus were preaching. What she discovered has disturbed her greatly.

www.smh.com.au

Why the PM and most Christians are 'going to hell'

Inside the teachings of Israel Folau’s family church, which believes Catholicism is the ‘synagogue of Satan’.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 

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shellyg said:
Kate McClyrmont doing a job on Folau's church and it's quite good but scary.

The Folau's church has been described by someone who went to have a look as an 'isolated hate group'. The Folau's believe Catholicism is the Synagogue of Satan and that homosexuality is a sin worthy of death.

A Christian parent of a promising young rugby player was concerned when Israel Folau began inviting players to his church. The parent decided to find out for herself what the Folaus were preaching. What she discovered has disturbed her greatly.

www.smh.com.au

Why the PM and most Christians are 'going to hell'

Inside the teachings of Israel Folau’s family church, which believes Catholicism is the ‘synagogue of Satan’.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
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Sadly there is no hell. Be nice if there was a place of sorts where the preachy self righteous hypocrites could spend time repenting though.
 
Gough said:
Can I claim that 10 people gathered in my front room is a church and that I should have my words protected by law. Old man Folau sounds about as legit as those self proclaimed Imams.
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We all seem to cut the Imams a darned sight more rope IMHO, just they are not sports stars - its Folaus sporting status that makes him a target for the media?
 
damn he is such a liability because he purports to believe in certain incomprehensible things.. don't think it myself...
so he should be determined as a diabolical liability... no that might be too many words...
He is just waling the fine line and we don't want that.. evidence is that he despises people who are of a different category...
So it is rather dynamic that he is the person we all should try to reduce his influence...
 
Leeda said:
damn he is such a liability because he purports to believe in certain incomprehensible things.. don't think it myself...
so he should be determined as a diabolical liability... no that might be too many words...
He is just waling the fine line and we don't want that.. evidence is that he despises people who are of a different category...
So it is rather dynamic that he is the person we all should try to reduce his influence...
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You are entitled to your view no more/less than Folau ...
 
Dixie Normous said:
I wonder if Folau watched the Adam Goodes documentary? He might learn something about people who go through real persecution
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No need to lose the boos, says Goodes
"It hasn't been difficult. It's not something that I'm not used to. There's been many a time being booed at football grounds. Sometimes it's a mark of respect, that the opposition fans don't want you to play well, and every time you get the football. It doesn't bother me to be honest."
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