Religion Folau

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
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Yes, please do if you have the time :)

As abstract as implied rights may be, they form an integral mechanism of our legislative framework; not everything is, nor can be, codified. At its pinnacle, Australians have only one entrenched freedom which, arguably, cannot be removed by lawmakers, but even that is implied; i.e the implied freedom of political expression. It's implied because it's inferable from the very structure of our constitution; our democracy won't function if our ability to express our political views is removed. Other than that, every other right and obligation is posited; and can be diminished in the same way. So when we talk of an implied right, it's a right that, although not expressly stated, may nonetheless be inferred as necessary to facilitate the exercise of some other right or power.

Although now an instrument of contract law, an employment relationship operates in a similar way; in that binding terms need adhere to, for lack of a better expression, a constitutional hierarchy of rights and powers emanating from applicable laws; whether expressed or implied. This is why, the existence of expressed rights and obligations found in work place legislation are accompanied by range of implied duties of employer and employee.

Until relatively recently, the relationship between employer and employee took the form of employer as master and employee as servant; there was a time where an employee was subject to imprisonment for leaving his/her employment. As repugnant as that might seem, there are some persisting features of the master servant relationship in modern employment arrangements; eg employers power to exercise authority over an employee, and the idea that workplace conduct rules can be incorporated by reference as implied terms. Some have referred to the latter in the current public debate concerning the subject of this thread, in support of employer rights; while others have attempted to infer the scope of right of religious expression from the implication that comes from other legislative instruments, in support of employee rights.

The implied duty of mutual trust and confidence, which has received judicial recognition, outside of Australia, is said to derive from the notion that the employment contract is not merely about economic exchanges; but rather reflects broader public concerns relating to equity and fairness. It has been opined that if broadly applied it could potentially rebalance the interests of employer and employee. I regard this as progressive thinking, and believe that proceeding generations will continue to explore and pursue its potential application.
 
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Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
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In other-words, I am sick and tired of constantly reading references to the need to protect the employers brand. End of rant.
 
As abstract as implied rights may be, they form an integral mechanism of our legislative framework; not everything is, nor can be, codified.
At its pinnacle, Australians have only one entrenched right which, arguably, cannot be removed by lawmakers, but even that is implied; i.e the implied right of freedom of political expression. It's implied because it's inferable from the very structure of our constitution; our democracy won't function if our ability to express our political views is removed. Other than that, every other right and obligation is posited; and can be diminished in the same way. So when we talk of an implied right, it's a right that, although not expressly stated, may nonetheless be inferred as necessary to facilitate the exercise of some other right or power.

Although now an instrument of contract law, an employment relationship operates in a similar way; in that binding terms need adhere to, for lack of a better expression, a constitutional hierarchy of rights and powers emanating from applicable laws; whether expressed or implied. This is why, the existence of expressed rights and obligations found in work place legislation is accompanied by range of implied rights for employer and employee.

Until relatively recently, the relationship between employer and employee took the form of employer as master and employee as servant; there was a time where an employee was subject to imprisonment for leaving his/her employment. As repugnant as that might seem, there are some persisting features of the master servant relationship in modern employment arrangements; eg employers power to exercise authority over an employee, and the idea that workplace conduct rules can be incorporated by reference as implied terms. Some have referred to the latter in the current public debate concerning the subject of this thread, in support of employer rights; while others have attempted to infer the scope of right of religious expression from the implication that comes from other legislative instruments, in support of employee rights.

The implied duty of mutual trust and confidence, which has received judicial recognition, outside of Australia, is said to derive from the notion that the employment contract is not merely about economic exchanges; but rather reflects broader public concerns relating to equity and fairness. It has been opined that if broadly applied it could potentially rebalance the interests of employer and employee. I regard this as progressive thinking, and believe that proceeding generations will continue to explore and pursue its potential application.


Thanks for that.

We're in a bit of a mess unfortunately and we have to just put up with it all until the issues of employer/employee rights predominantly over social media inevitably end up before the High Court and we see decisions which brings me to yesterday where after seven years through the courts, Michaela Berjiklan operating over twitter as @LaLegale lost her case over her termination. The High Court ruled her conduct breached the Public Service Code of Conduct and it trumped her 'implied freedom of political communication'. That doesn't mean she's locked out of engagement and participation.

Are you familiar with this case and her history? If so, would you agree with the High Court ruling?
 
The implied duty of mutual trust and confidence, which has received judicial recognition, outside of Australia, is said to derive from the notion that the employment contract is not merely about economic exchanges; but rather reflects broader public concerns relating to equity and fairness. It has been opined that if broadly applied it could potentially rebalance the interests of employer and employee. I regard this as progressive thinking, and believe that proceeding generations will continue to explore and pursue its potential application.

I didn't intend to ignore this paragraph, we've quite a way to go before getting anywhere near that though imo.
 

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
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I didn't intend to ignore this paragraph, we've quite a way to go before getting anywhere near that though imo.
Yes we do. But I get the feeling the current/emerging generation wont be backward in going forward. I think we'll be in good hands. :thumbsu:
 

Opine

Norm Smith Medallist
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Thanks for that.

We're in a bit of a mess unfortunately and we have to just put up with it all until the issues of employer/employee rights predominantly over social media inevitably end up before the High Court and we see decisions which brings me to yesterday where after seven years through the courts, Michaela Berjiklan operating over twitter as @LaLegale lost her case over her termination. The High Court ruled her conduct breached the Public Service Code of Conduct and it trumped her 'implied freedom of political communication'. That doesn't mean she's locked out of engagement and participation.

Are you familiar with this case and her history? If so, would you agree with the High Court ruling?
I wasn't familiar with it, until I saw a reference to it posted in here, and your question earlier. But I have just read it; albeit quickly.

I think I agree with HC's finding, that it is reasonable to impose some restrictions on freedom of political expression; if that restriction applies to political officers charged with the responsibility of ensuring that an apolitical system exists, and providing there are other mechanisms in place capable of serving as a check on political power. After-all, the ability of private individuals to express their political views rests, to some degree, on the ability of government to provide relevant and accurate information, efficiently, to its community; This enables greater participation of political expression on the whole.

She arguably isn't locked out because she participates in promoting greater overall political expression, but I think her personal engagement is effected; at least to the extent deemed necessary to facilitate the greater democratic benefit.

There has been differing opinions on whether the notion of proportionality, in which the court looks behind a statute to establish whether underlying circumstances are such that the exercise of a political power is proportionate, should be justiciable; separation of powers often used as argument against proportionality. However, the court has exercised such power over a long period of time, so it clearly exists; the Communist Party Case being a prime example of this. if it didn't have the power to exercise proportionally then the question of whether termination of employment was a proportionality appropriate response would arguably not have been relevant.
 
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After all this, the day before he's to appear in Federal Court for directions. Pouffe, it's gone.

 
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Evolved1

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My view clearly counts as it seems to trigger you

It isn't my view, it's the bible's view

Christians love to tell gay people how to live their lives but no one can tell them to, why you stopping muh freee speeech? I thought you were a freedumb warrior
Not all Christians are bible worshipers.
 

Evolved1

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So it's a pretend church, they might is well believe in Elvis Presley as the son of god for all the credibility Issy's "church" has. This is just sad now, he's clearly being used and being blessed with an iq that would struggle to reach room temperature he just can't see it.
All churches are selling the same shite, mate. Some just polish it better than others!

For all of Elvis' faults, at least he was real.

An old bloke in a skirt who hears the voices of talking snakes and donkeys, and relies on selling promises of life after the grave with a no refund policy has it made, no?

Selling snake oil to the masses is big business, and nobody ever returns to give them a bad review. Fortunately, atheists are here to bring rationality to the masses. ;-)
 

Evolved1

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He lost his job because of it, you wouldn't

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Public figureheads are held to higher standards of conduct, just as they have been since the dawn of time.

By all means, throw yourself in front of all the vile racist, homophobic, and misogynistic morons who demand their RIGHT to freedom of speech, yet do nothing to promote causes that benefit this planet. Just don't assume you're doing the world a favour by doing so.
 

chelseacarlton

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Missus cc is a kiwi, I have to watch the All Blacks every time they play, unless it somehow crosses over with a Blues game.
The Bledisloe is the Holy Grail, the World Cup might be Everest, but the Bledisloe is the one that really means something, it’s their Ashes.
I know a bit about Rugby now because I’ve watched a bit because of her.
I went to a game last year Australia v Ireland, it was a great spectacle and I found myself barracking fairly hard and being more emotionally involved than I could imagine.
Folau played that night and whenever he went near it or had it, the Aussie crowd went nuts, I was with them.

We were so much better without him in the team, that team last weekend with Pocock in it is a real threat.
RA should just walk into court and say Issy was sacked cause he’s s**t, we’re better without him.
All my kiwi mates agreed, his absence was a blesssing to the Wallabies.
10 mil is a joke, if we win this weekend though, they should offer to pay him the entirety of it in gold coins, as long as they can ram each one up his clacker.
You were a weight on the teams shoulders Israel, they are free now, now kindly * off!👍
 

M Malice

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Missus cc is a kiwi, I have to watch the All Blacks every time they play, unless it somehow crosses over with a Blues game.
The Bledisloe is the Holy Grail, the World Cup might be Everest, but the Bledisloe is the one that really means something, it’s their Ashes.
I know a bit about Rugby now because I’ve watched a bit because of her.
I went to a game last year Australia v Ireland, it was a great spectacle and I found myself barracking fairly hard and being more emotionally involved than I could imagine.
Folau played that night and whenever he went near it or had it, the Aussie crowd went nuts, I was with them.

We were so much better without him in the team, that team last weekend with Pocock in it is a real threat.
RA should just walk into court and say Issy was sacked cause he’s s**t, we’re better without him.
All my kiwi mates agreed, his absence was a blesssing to the Wallabies.
10 mil is a joke, if we win this weekend though, they should offer to pay him the entirety of it in gold coins, as long as they can ram each one up his clacker.
You were a weight on the teams shoulders Israel, they are free now, now kindly fu** off!👍
I think you are onto something cc, they won because they finally got rid of that hypocritical god deluded bible bashing tweeting boat anchor that was holding them back.

Long live the atheist Wallabies. They have gone from praying for victory to actually working for it, some would say a logical/commonsense direction to follow.
 

chelseacarlton

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I think you are onto something cc, they won because they finally got rid of that hypocritical god deluded bible bashing tweeting boat anchor that was holding them back.

Long live the atheist Wallabies. They have gone from praying for victory to actually working for it, some would say a logical/commonsense direction to follow.
Several of my kiwi mates through my missus, texted me during the game, all stated that it was “him” that was the difference in our freer and more expressive play making.
He was obviously a mental and physical hindrance to the team!
He must have been watching and realised he was holding them back!
He was probably barracking for the all blacks!!
Dumb campaigner
 
Several of my kiwi mates through my missus, texted me during the game, all stated that it was “him” that was the difference in our freer and more expressive play making.
He was obviously a mental and physical hindrance to the team!
He must have been watching and realised he was holding them back!
He was probably barracking for the all blacks!!
Dumb campaigner
O'Connor at in centre was a revelation too, set up two tries and was fantastic in defence.
 

chelseacarlton

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O'Connor at in centre was a revelation too, set up two tries and was fantastic in defence.
Hodge was the difference according to kiwis, instrumental.
But they rate Pocock above all others, he makes them tremble!
 

Sainteric

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I think you are onto something cc, they won because they finally got rid of that hypocritical god deluded bible bashing tweeting boat anchor that was holding them back.

Long live the atheist Wallabies. They have gone from praying for victory to actually working for it, some would say a logical/commonsense direction to follow.
Or the Wallaby forwards, (which happens about once every 20 years), absolutely pounded the all blacks.
 
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