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MacMum

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Apr 6, 2007
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Wonder what the country would be like now if the British hadn't landed..... none of us would be here today to enjoy all that this country offers to all its citizens .....definately wouldn't be having this conversation on here.....no education available or the opportunities to better ones self.

Wonder which world the protesters would choose to live in..
 

notting18

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Wonder what the country would be like now if the British hadn't landed..... none of us would be here today to enjoy all that this country offers to all its citizens .....definately wouldn't be having this conversation on here.....no education available or the opportunities to better ones self.

Wonder which world the protesters would choose to live in..
People lived in Australia just fine for 50,000+ years before the British arrived. And just why do you say there would be no "education" or "opportunities"?
 

Dylan12

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Wonder what the country would be like now if the British hadn't landed..... none of us would be here today to enjoy all that this country offers to all its citizens .....definately wouldn't be having this conversation on here.....no education available or the opportunities to better ones self.

Wonder which world the protesters would choose to live in..
Yep, because no doubt if the British didn't arrive in Australia, no other country would've found Australia and the indigenous peoples would have continued living here as they were 230 odd years ago, because its not like no other country would have stepped foot on Australian soil, even in 2021. :rolleyes:

Imagine what the Chinese would've done to the indigenous people had they found the land before the British.:oops:
 

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BangyBangy

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Oct 16, 2013
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Wonder what the country would be like now if the British hadn't landed..... none of us would be here today to enjoy all that this country offers to all its citizens .....definately wouldn't be having this conversation on here.....no education available or the opportunities to better ones self.

Wonder which world the protesters would choose to live in..
A. The country would've been invaded / occupied by another country. It's pretty much what everyone was doing at the time.
B. We would probably be on the soccer version of big footy as most of us would still be in England.
C. Not sure which team I would be following. Know nothing about soccer.

Edit: I do know the Dutch found us first btw. They just found the crappier bits. The West Coast Eagles & Fremantle Dockers areas.
 

Maroon Monsoon

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Just for the record, I couldn't care less about "Australia Day", don't celebrate it like millions of others don't and generally, like any other public holiday, catch up on work
If by your own admission you don't care about the holiday or the date itself why are you so affected by the views of people for whom it does matter?

this constant angst against white people who did nothing to them or their people is just absurd even though we love and respect indigenous people, their heritage, our land etc. But sure, hate on us anyway
I dont think the opposition to the date has ever been about hating or being 'angsty' against white people, its a recognition that for the indigenous population the landing of the first fleet represented the loss of a way of life and connection to the land that had lasted tens of thousands of years and heralded the beginning of centuries of subjugation and treatment as lesser people.

Its understandable why the indigenous population would view the celebration of this day that had such negative implications for their peoples history as almost offensive and at the least something that needs changing
 

Dylan12

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I dont think the opposition to the date has ever been about hating or being 'angsty' against white people, its a recognition that for the indigenous population the landing of the first fleet represented the loss of a way of life and connection to the land that had lasted tens of thousands of years and heralded the beginning of centuries of subjugation and treatment as lesser people.

Its understandable why the indigenous population would view the celebration of this day that had such negative implications for their peoples history as almost offensive and at the least something that needs changing
So why the carry on now, particularly on the back of the US BLM that had nothing to do with Australia?

The antics of today would have had much more credibility if most of these same people, including at the Brisbane Lions, had given a sh*t before 2021.
 

martinson

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Yep, because no doubt if the British didn't arrive in Australia, no other country would've found Australia and the indigenous peoples would have continued living here as they were 230 odd years ago, because its not like no other country would have stepped foot on Australian soil, even in 2021. :rolleyes:

Imagine what the Chinese would've done to the indigenous people had they found the land before the British.:oops:
Don't mean to get pedantic Dylan but it's 314 years.

It's the same story for indigenous peoples the world over except for many parts of South America where life is more or less unchanged.

I really don't think even the politicians have too much of a problem changing the date , it's working out who represents those agitating for a change and getting them to agree because some of the most public spokespeople don't want any Australia Day. Because Australia is a rotten country overall.

I think the Senate should get together and work out another day , hopefully one with some symbolic resonance to the first people.
 

Maroon Monsoon

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So why the carry on now, particularly on the back of the US BLM that had nothing to do with Australia?

The antics of today would have had much more credibility if most of these same people, including at the Brisbane Lions, had given a sh*t before 2021.
Taking advantage of high profile global protests against institutional racism to gain popular support for national level causes seems an entirely reasonable approach. But the change the date movement has been around for a good number of years (i remember large invasion day protests in Melbourne in 2017 when I first moved back to the country after living abroad). Theyre just gaining greater profile as the generations who support the issue become a larger share of the population.

Yep, because no doubt if the British didn't arrive in Australia, no other country would've found Australia and the indigenous peoples would have continued living here as they were 230 odd years ago, because its not like no other country would have stepped foot on Australian soil, even in 2021. :rolleyes:

Imagine what the Chinese would've done to the indigenous people had they found the land before the British.:oops:
Just because someone else would have done something doesn't change the fact the ones who did do it created our shared history with all associated impacts. For example, were all pretty happy to acknowledge the historical significance of the lions winning in 2001, 2002 and 2003 even though someone else would have won the premierships those years if they hadnt
 
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martinson

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Taking advantage of high profile global protests against institutional racism to gain popular support for national level causes seems an entirely reasonable approach. But the change the date movement has been around for a good number of years (i remember large invasion day protests in Melbourne in 2017 when I first moved back to the country after living abroad). Theyre just gaining greater profile as the generations who support the issue become a larger share of the population.
Correct. Most of those marching and agitating are not indigenous. And as we see a worldwide shift towards socialism, money printing and the focus on Western Governments to support their people in the light of the economic and social effects of covid we're going to see these sort of causes gain more momentum.

Those resisting it may as well step aside, the younger generations have have an entirely different view on all these matters. Of course a lot of that comes from affluence. Which in reality we have in abundance compared to how my parents lived.
 

briztoon

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Edit: I do know the Dutch found us first btw. They just found the crappier bits. The West Coast Eagles & Fremantle Dockers areas.
Define “found”.

The Dutch may have been the first Europeans to discover Australia, but I’m pretty sure the Chinese knew of Australia before then, so to some Indonesian kingdom.
 

Nunez

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Sure am, but like many others with a similar view, will not be losing sleep over it either because of some arbitrary date really makes a huge difference. I dare say the majority of those protesting today will have forgotten what they were protesting about today or will give a crap about some arbitrary date in 4 months time, but hey, keep hating on those day who can see right through this BS argument that makes no difference to anyone in 2021.
Out of touch is an understatement.
 

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martinson

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Define “found”.

The Dutch may have been the first Europeans to discover Australia, but I’m pretty sure the Chinese knew of Australia before then, so to some Indonesian kingdom.
I remember it from school Britzoon. Was it not Willian Dampier who explored part of the Aus coast and reported seeing large hopping animals prior to 1700.
 

briztoon

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Dylan12 i was at school in 1988, but I remember the Australia Day protests then.

Every year there’s been some form of protest in Brisbane, usually at Musgrave Park.

This isn’t a new cause. It’s more that society is ready to embrace it.

 

Dylan12

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This isn’t a new cause. It’s more that society is ready to embrace it.
And no doubt quickly move on to the next cause to wave their fists at because that is all Gen Z's seem to do these days because they are just so precious and special that constantly need positive reinforcement and told how right they are and how important their opinion is. :rolleyes:
 

Maroon Monsoon

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And no doubt quickly move on to the next cause to wave their fists at because that is all Gen Z's seem to do these days because they are just so precious and special that constantly need positive reinforcement and told how right they are and how important their opinion is. :rolleyes:

Edit: I'm old enough to remember when millennials were the entitled whingers. So this is what it feels like for another generation to be the 'kids these days'!
 

briztoon

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And no doubt quickly move on to the next cause to wave their fists at because that is all Gen Z's seem to do these days because they are just so precious and special that constantly need positive reinforcement and told how right they are and how important their opinion is. :rolleyes:
I saw people of all ages on News at these marches today. I don’t believe it’s a generation thing.

And it’s always been the younger generation from every era that appears to lead the marches.

Watch videos of the anti Vietnam marches. It’s always the uni kids.

Every era, every cause, it’s the 16 to 26 age group that appears to be at the forefront.


However I have noticed more parents taking their kids on these marches recently.

And personally, I’m glad there are people out there marching. It’s a great counter point to Morrison’s continued public gaffs.
 

briztoon

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Correct. Most of those marching and agitating are not indigenous. And as we see a worldwide shift towards socialism, money printing and the focus on Western Governments to support their people in the light of the economic and social effects of covid we're going to see these sort of causes gain more momentum.

Those resisting it may as well step aside, the younger generations have have an entirely different view on all these matters. Of course a lot of that comes from affluence. Which in reality we have in abundance compared to how my parents lived.
My wife and I sometimes have very in-depth discussion about some of the socialist nature of Australian society.

Coming from a communist country, she often views some of our socialist institutions as some of our societies biggest problems.
 

Gadzorks

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Out of curiosity, why hasn't the club or anyone else for that matter, protested about this say 4, 9, 13, 18 years ago or any other arbitrary year up until now? Seems pretty convenient and very rich if you ask me that a lot of people and organisations are only doing so because it is politically correct to do so or align to such a cause as a supposed "good corporate citizen"?

I would actually have some respect for anyone, including the Lions if they'd been passionate about this cause before it was "cool" to do so, but I have zero empathy or respect for anyone getting in on the bandwagon because it is convenient to do so as is the case in these modern times when it can be publicised or tweeted or whatever else and have even less interest in wanting a change

Hell, I reckon there would be plenty like me that wouldn't give two craps whether there is even an "Australia Day" as it really is just an excuse for a lot of bogans to get pissed, fight and carry on and believe me, I saw a tonne of that when watching the fireworks in Perth from the comfort of restaurant's years ago, but the carry on all of a sudden is pretty embarrassing.
IIRC at one stage the only Aboriginal player was Ash McGrath. Fortunately we have moved into a more enlightened period, and 2017 was when we laid down a significant framework for indigenous culture in The Reconciliation Action Plan, and it was the year we bought the Long Walk to Brisbane.

So four years ago we had already identified it as an area for improvement and taken action. Small detail that refutes the basis of your post.

Allen Christensen has done a magnificent job of integrating Aboriginal culture, bringing respect and developing communication to make our club an equal opportunity employer. And we are benefiting from this with indigenous players looking to come to our club.

I'll be at the Long Walk this year, hope to see you there.
 

Dylan12

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I’ve come round; best give them their change the date so we can move on to the next demand that the masses will beat their jungle drums about and we don’t have to put up with this crap.

They’re still kidding themselves if this will ‘unite’ the country because as if a date change will ever change anything.
 

Dylan12

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IIRC at one stage the only Aboriginal player was Ash McGrath. Fortunately we have moved into a more enlightened period, and 2017 was when we laid down a significant framework for indigenous culture in The Reconciliation Action Plan, and it was the year we bought the Long Walk to Brisbane.

So four years ago we had already identified it as an area for improvement and taken action. Small detail that refutes the basis of your post.

Allen Christensen has done a magnificent job of integrating Aboriginal culture, bringing respect and developing communication to make our club an equal opportunity employer. And we are benefiting from this with indigenous players looking to come to our club.

I'll be at the Long Walk this year, hope to see you there.
Allen Christensen’s work will not be forgotten and he should be very proud of his legacy that he left at the club as should the majority of indigenous Lions players. In addition, aside from Heritage Round, which seems to have long been forgotten, Indigenous Round is by and far the most exciting round of an AFL calendar. That all of course has nothing to do with moving the date of Australia Day.
 

Gadzorks

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Allen Christensen’s work will not be forgotten and he should be very proud of his legacy that he left at the club as should the majority of indigenous Lions players. In addition, aside from Heritage Round, which seems to have long been forgotten, Indigenous Round is by and far the most exciting round of an AFL calendar. That all of course has nothing to do with moving the date of Australia Day.
I was replying to your question as to why the club wasn't protesting four years ago, and not about changing the date of Australia Day.
 

Viceregal

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Sporting clubs are unified around their common passion - in our case for the Brisbane Lions.

Individuals that support that club have differing opinions amongst each other on a range of other matters.

Individuals that play for that club have differing opinions amongst each other on a range of other matters (and indeed on their approach to their athletic careers for that matter)

An organisation can choose to allow its members the freedom to express their diverse opinions individually (effectively a conscience vote)

When an orgnaisation chooses to give their support to a specific side in another field or on one side of a currently controversial topic then they are effectively stepping beyond their organising principles and run the risk of alienating those who do not support cause 'x' or believe that cause 'x' is no business of, in our case, the footy club.

Sometimes people don't realise that their attitudes even *have* a side - for example I have a friend who prides himself on his political neutrality and so is against nationalism but does not realise that his default globalism is just as much a political philosophy as nationalism.

How do conservative union members feel when their dues paid are spent to support non-conservative politicians / political causes?

How would a player or coach who chose not to kneel when the rest of the team knelt have been treated? With honour for his choice to stand as an individual ... with respect for the diversity of his opinion ... with appreciation for the courage it took for him to stand for whatever reason when every piece of group dynamic was pushing him to kneel?

I do not recall where I read it but someone said something along the lines of ... if you passionately believe that the country was illegally invaded and you have no right to be here then get on a plane or a boat and go back where you 'belong' ... if you passionately believe that there are too many people or that the plant would be better off without us then why are you still here? If you choose to stay then start to work with the realities of the situation and realise that your feelings and beliefs are not the arbiters of the universe.

Most problems are not black and white and certainly no predicaments are ...
 

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