2nds Footscray Bulldogs 2019 Thread

dogwatch

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LOL. Footscray FC surely having a joke here. Mind you the VFL "best players" so often seems to be just a lottery.

Can someone explain this to me? Lukas Webb gets 31 possessions (incl 16 kicks) which is 20% more than anyone else on the field, has 5 marks 7 tackles 7 i50s, doesn't give away any frees, kicks 1.2 and yet he doesn't even rate in the top 6 players.

Can someone who was there confirm that despite the impressive stats he really played an ordinary game and wasn't worthy of top 6?

Or is it that Sam Power is gearing up to delist him and the club doesn't want to be embarrassed by outstanding late season form in the VFL?

I don't mind if the club decides to delist him. That's their call. It's the hint of dishonesty in the process that I don't like. Or at best, if they are really genuine about who they name as the best 6, it's the total unpredictability and lack of credibility in their choices each week.
 

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fpcookie

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It does seem a bit odd I agree, but BOGs from coaches are often framed around specific jobs/tasks/roles/challenges. Maybe they think that should be a par game for Webb at that level? Wouldn't necessarily go straight to dishonesty.
 

Hard Ball Get

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LOL. Footscray FC surely having a joke here. Mind you the VFL "best players" so often seems to be just a lottery.

Can someone explain this to me? Lukas Webb gets 31 possessions (incl 16 kicks) which is 20% more than anyone else on the field, has 5 marks 7 tackles 7 i50s, doesn't give away any frees, kicks 1.2 and yet he doesn't even rate in the top 6 players.

Can someone who was there confirm that despite the impressive stats he really played an ordinary game and wasn't worthy of top 6?

Or is it that Sam Power is gearing up to delist him and the club doesn't want to be embarrassed by outstanding late season form in the VFL?

I don't mind if the club decides to delist him. That's their call. It's the hint of dishonesty in the process that I don't like. Or at best, if they are really genuine about who they name as the best 6, it's the total unpredictability and lack of credibility in their choices each week.
That is one hell of a long bow to draw. Not sure how you can possibly reach that conclusion.
 

Hard Ball Get

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Just joining a few random dots mid-week. ;)

They have form in relation to team selections. Let's see how it pans out.
Just sems like very random dot connecting.

Webb could be delisted at the end of the year and it could still have nothing to do with not being named in the best.
 

dogwatch

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Just sems like very random dot connecting.

Webb could be delisted at the end of the year and it could still have nothing to do with not being named in the best.
True, and maybe it is a long bow. But how come he wasn't considered among their best? Nobody who was there has yet responded to my appeal for a first hand account and I didn't see the game, but usually there's a pretty strong correlation between match stats (at least stats on that scale) and being among your side's best.

As I said earlier, the very least I'd accuse them of is a lack of credibility in nominating their bests. Random players seem to figure in the best players quite often while others who have played extremely well miss out. There could be lots of reasons for it (I expect you'll raise matters like coaches see it differently, players following the team plan, playing a role to perfection, most of Webb's disposals could have been turnovers, etc) but lots of people have commented on this phenomenon over the last season or two, so it's not just me.

This is one issue I'd rather be wrong on, BTW!
 

Hard Ball Get

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True, and maybe it is a long bow. But how come he wasn't considered among their best? Nobody who was there has yet responded to my appeal for a first hand account and I didn't see the game, but usually there's a pretty strong correlation between match stats (at least stats on that scale) and being among your side's best.

As I said earlier, the very least I'd accuse them of is a lack of credibility in nominating their bests. Random players seem to figure in the best players quite often while others who have played extremely well miss out. There could be lots of reasons for it (I expect you'll raise matters like coaches see it differently, players following the team plan, playing a role to perfection, most of Webb's disposals could have been turnovers, etc) but lots of people have commented on this phenomenon over the last season or two, so it's not just me.

This is one issue I'd rather be wrong on, BTW!
Another one is misdirection, in terms of opposition analysis and teams planning for potential ins.

There are a ton of possibilities. I just cant see any chance of a list manager telling others not to put someone in the best because they are going to be delisted.
 

dogwatch

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Another one is misdirection, in terms of opposition analysis and teams planning for potential ins.

There are a ton of possibilities. I just cant see any chance of a list manager telling others not to put someone in the best because they are going to be delisted.
If misdirection (to mislead oppo analysts) is a factor then I'd rather they didn't waste our time by publishing them at all. Oppo analysts probably watch a lot of games and can quite easily decide for themselves. Personally I think that's another long bow, but when things just don't add up who can tell?
 

Hard Ball Get

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If misdirection (to mislead oppo analysts) is a factor then I'd rather they didn't waste our time by publishing them at all. Oppo analysts probably watch a lot of games and can quite easily decide for themselves. Personally I think that's another long bow, but when things just don't add up who can tell?
Just checked. Webb named best in the official Dogs write up of the game. Is also spoken about glowingly throughout the article.

 

dogwatch

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Just checked. Webb named best in the official Dogs write up of the game. Is also spoken about glowingly throughout the article.

My bad. In fact I've always said when it's a choice between a conspiracy and incompetence, go for incompetence every time.



It's just that conspiracies are much more fun.
 
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fpcookie

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True, and maybe it is a long bow. But how come he wasn't considered among their best? Nobody who was there has yet responded to my appeal for a first hand account and I didn't see the game, but usually there's a pretty strong correlation between match stats (at least stats on that scale) and being among your side's best.

As I said earlier, the very least I'd accuse them of is a lack of credibility in nominating their bests. Random players seem to figure in the best players quite often while others who have played extremely well miss out. There could be lots of reasons for it (I expect you'll raise matters like coaches see it differently, players following the team plan, playing a role to perfection, most of Webb's disposals could have been turnovers, etc) but lots of people have commented on this phenomenon over the last season or two, so it's not just me.

This is one issue I'd rather be wrong on, BTW!
I don't understand why you're attributing it to randomness but then in the very next sentence give several valid reasons for it?
If anything the fact it's happened over 2 years shows it's not random at all.
 

fpcookie

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My bad. In fact I've always said when it's a choice between a conspiracy and incompetence, go for incompetence every time.



It's just that conspiracies are much more fun.
Which leads to the question, who does the other votes that we tend to see on a weekly basis in here? :/
 

NoName

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Just read that the game on Saturday will be played at Whitten Oval and not at Piranha Park. As it’s not a Footscray home match, entrance fees will apply.

 

Mr. Walker

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Just read that the game on Saturday will be played at Whitten Oval and not at Piranha Park. As it’s not a Footscray home match, entrance fees will apply.

Thanks NoName. I was beginning to think no-one was going to post anything on this weekends Footscray game. That big blackhole that is the AFL is swallowing up all interest. Keen to see how Williams goes. I live in hope for a return to the ones!
 

King Harold

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I really like Webb, don't get me wrong. Was very excited about him in 2015 (Year 1).

Question - How many midfielders who have spent 5 years on an AFL list, have become senior regulars in Year 6? This is Lippa's 3rd year ...
This -- same for me Bazza , thought he would make it early on.
Just does not have the intensity to be an AFL footballer. Time he moved on.
 

NthBondiDoggies

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We have been extremely well served by late starters: Picken, Morris, Boyd, Dickson to name a few. Whether they are on our list and playing VFL:WAFL etc or playing unlisted does make a difference (training, development) etc but will just take longer.

For Webb he started clearing showing AFL qualities - as a half back flanker he looked a star but like many young players he was great when the play came to him but lacked ability to make things happen. Defence constructions now require defenders to be proactive.

So he was sent into the middle to build his tank (also a problem) and to get more skills being proactive. This is hard to do but necessary for him to play the structures we play in. A run and gun team like Essendon (tried to be) would have been more suited. This put him back a couple of years.

He then starts making real progress - his stats numbers and his active other numbers (tackles) etc start tracking up. But the positions he plays have some real depth already - others come into to the team that are ahead in development but he is making progress.

Then he breaks his neck and out for 18 months with the psychological effects but works his way back and starts leading the team in the stats he is asked. We all know how playing catch up from a weak preseason rarely works with good players only starting to come through towards the end of year barring injuries.

A strong preseason (not in a brace) and he is back on track but realistically only in year 4 with some good experience behind him. Would love to see his kicking used - Suckers has some brilliant kicks but has a lot of duds and is getting towards the end.

I can see him going back to HBF or Wing in a future (current-future) - so of which is already happening:

Wood(Khamis-L.Young) // Young (McAsey/DeKoning?) // Daniel-Suckling (Webb)

Crozier-Doc // Cordy-Morris(Trengrove ) // JJ (Richards will
Play wing also)-Vandermeer)
 

Golden_6

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You’d want to hope the Footscray breeze is out and about, that’s a bloody awful start.
 

Golden_6

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We’ve also had 20 more disposals and down by nearly 40 points. Staggering.
 

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