Forget Dawsons 3rd quarter!

Shwab

Senior List
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Posts
278
Likes
659
Location
Waverley
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawthorn
Thread starter #1
Dawson can't tackle, won't chase, can't contest, cant...play footy.

Foxtel had the Coll VS Hawks game replayed in full (hate the 4pm Sunday Channel 9 highlight rubbish) so I recorded it on Foxtel IQ and couldnt believe what I saw in the 1st quarter.

4 minutes into the game Dermie said, 'Watch the Dawson / Rocca match up, Rocca will win that 1 on 1 contest everytime'

Watch the reply (if you can) and check these contests -

Q1 - 13:47 - Ball kicked by Thomas to Coll HFF, Dawson strolls behind Rocca (no attempt to tackle), Rocca handballs to Thomas. Dawson lays very weak tackle attempt, Thomas (76kg) brushes him off handballs back to Rocca.

Rocca is bent over the ball, great opportunity to clean him up, but Dawson attempts a basketball style steal. Rocca handballs to Fraser, Dawson paddles behind Fraser and lays the weakest most ordinary tackle you have ever seen (Fraser doesnt even notice). Fraser handball to Caracella, Caracella handball to Thomas, Dawson wonders across and falls over.

This is a 20 second piece of play in a 20m radius and he fails to put any pressure on the opposition, gets to the contest, but doesnt know what to do when he gets there.

Q1 - 12:43 - Dawson stands infront of Rocca, top of goalsquare, attempts to push back and wrestle with Rocca, easy mark, goal.

Brian Taylor - Too big for Dawson
Dermie - Yeah, just too big for Dawson

Q1 - 12:04 - Jacobs to Rocca, Dawson to Cloke

Q1 - 11:30 - Holland kicks to Coll HFF, Cloke picks ball up uncontested (Dawson 20m behind), Tarrant an easy mark inside 50m. Dawson didnt stay on his man and didnt zone offf to block the lead. Stood in the middle, no idea.

Q1 - 7:39 - Easy mark to Cloke uncontested in the forward 50. Where was Dawson? Jogging 15 metres behind Cloke (great view of this on Cloke mark replay)

Dermie says - Zac Dawson trailing in behind there. Cant do that against good forwards.

Q1 - 2:00 - Johnson on the wing kicks to Coll CHF, 1 on 1 contest Cloke VS Dawson. Easy mark, small bump, doesnt punch, just stands there.

Q2 - 18:53 - Licuria at Coll FF, Dawson another terrible and weak tackle attempt.

Q2 - 17:45 - Licuria kicks to HFF, Dawson punches from behind on CLoke (well done), but then goes to ground, Cloke keeps his feet, wins the contest.

Q2 - 17:30 - Buckley kicks to forward pocket Jacobs VS Rocca, Dawson is there but doesnt go to the contest, jogs across the front, no urgency, doesnt chase, tackle, punch or shepard.

Q2 - 12:30 - Dermie says - Mick malthouse has said, if you get Zac Dawson, take him straight to the goal square.

Q2 - 12:22 - Dawson tries to spoil Rocca from behind Cloke, he had a clear run at the contest across the front of Cloke, but goes behind him and gets lost. Could have gone across the front and punched over the top of Rocca (again great view on the replay).

Forget the Dawsons 3rd quarter. Our small guys chase harder, tackle harder, lay better shepards, punch better and put more pressure on than Dawson. Looks out of his depth. If you are undersized, then you have to work twice as hard at laying the tackles, the bumps, the smothers, the shepards.

I would prefer someone of smaller size with bigger grunt. He needs to watch how Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Guerra, Croad, Roughead and Thurgood attack a contest. Even Ladson, Sewell, Clarke, Birchall etc have a fair crack.

As Hawthorn supporters all we ask is for you to have a crack.

Dawson didnt get beaten because of his size or lack of strength. He got beaten because of his lack of intensity and aggression. I would much prefer he gave away 10 free kicks to Cloke and Rocca, but made them earn their goals. Then we would be saying, Dawson was undersized, outplayed, but he didnt lay down. He made them earn every kick.

In comes Franklin, back goes Roughy or Croad. Simple.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

roosforever

Team Captain
Joined
May 29, 2003
Posts
483
Likes
37
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Magic, Central Districts
#2
I agree with you but really you cannot blame Dawson for what went on it was Clarkson's fault no-one elses. That wasn't the only bad call he made.
Before Saturday I liked him as a coach but I have never seen such a pathetic effort. Hawks won in my mind but Clarkson conceded it. Maybe there is a reason that only he knows and if that is the case, fair enough, but I though the idea of footy was to win games.
 

badboybobba

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Posts
338
Likes
263
Location
Preston
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#4
I have said from when i first saw him play that he lacks intensity with or without the ball. This is surely something he can work on and be coached on.

I'm not going to drop off the kid over one bad game, all good players were young once and all have learnt from their mistakes.

I hope he has a chance sooner than later on a good player again and see how much he has learnt after copping a pummeling from very good/big forward. But yeah if he doesn't pick up his intensity at the player and the ball he will definitely struggle.
 

Mr.Likeable

Team Captain
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Posts
333
Likes
3
Other Teams
Hawthorn
#5
Gee whiz Shwab. That's quite a character assassination piece you've put together there. You must be very angry.

You've done a lot of hard work in order to mount your case.

Your target is a 20 year old with 4 games under his belt.

Are you happy with your work?
 

RustyHawk

Premium Gold
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
14,569
Likes
4,218
Location
Under the Southern Star
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Green Bay Packers
#6
Shwab said:
Dawson can't tackle, won't chase, can't contest, cant...play footy..
Darn, shucks, why did the guys who drafted Hodge, Roughie, Franklin, Lewis, Birchall, Murphy, Thurgood, Bailey, Dowler, Munston, et al, why did the also draft Dawson 2 years ago?

Why totally bypass even the rookie list and put him straight on the senior list 2 years ago?

Why according to Shwab is he cant tackle, chase, contest, or even play! Gosh, how could these people get this 1 so wrong????

I mean, 2 years ago he was playing reserves footy for Box Hill. I suspect due to his height he would have had to play in the ruck rather than gather experience as a key defender. Oh well, at least he won the reserves best & fairest. Obviously another group of so called footy experts who know nothing about the game.

One question though Shwab. I didnt hear you complain about him against Freo? I mean, if he cant do all those things you highlighted surely that fact would have been exposed earlier?

But now, 1 week later and the kid is a vertible veteran. 4 games experience. Huge. Lets get rid of now you say.

One point, I did see the boy put his knees into Rocca's back at one stage and Rocca looked none too impressed. Just seemed to slip that one in he did.

The only criticism I have of his performance was probably the last goal when Rocca kicked it across his body for the miracle goal. Dawson had the opportunity to slame him into the ground and didnt and that simply to me is just the fact he doesnt yet have the strength to match it with the mature footballers.

I gotta admit I admire the kid. Takes guts to go out there in front of 43,000 and face guys who could seriously leave you battered and bruised knowing full well your punches & crunches wont hurt them but theres will certainly hurt you.

He's lucky there are so many TV cameras around. In the olden days he probably would have ended up like poor Nick Wilton - another tall, skinny kid who was playing on a veteran St Kilda player one day at Princess Park - the vet took him to the outer wing, looked left, looked right then punched him with the best uppercut Ive seen. (of course then you dont get guys like Jeff Murray coming running on... but thats another story)

Good night and it was.
 

Shwab

Senior List
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Posts
278
Likes
659
Location
Waverley
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawthorn
Thread starter #8
Let me clarify for those who didnt bother to read what the post

The big problem I had with his game on the weekend, is that he seemed to lack intensity. No chasing, tackling, no fight.

No problems with the kid getting thrashed by Rocca (its gonna happen), but get thrashed trying your heart out.

Give it everything you've got. If you still get beaten by a bloke who's played 200 games more, weighs 20 kg more, no complaints.

You cant expect the kid to wrestle gorillas and win. You can ask the kid to kick, bite, scratch and spit at the gorilla, and go down fighting.

Too many times on Saturday it was his lack of effort, not strength, not experience, not footy smarts that let him down. Go out and go hard.

Yes he is a kid. Yes he has played 4 games. Thurgood would have had 8 goals kicked on him on Sunday and I would have given him a standing ovation, cause he would break every bone in his body, commit to every contest and do everything he could to stop it and never give up.

If the Gorilla is going to kick 8 goals, better value watching him do it on the rednut. I would love Dawson to attack like Thurgood. Nothing to do with experience, everything to do with commitment.
 

cs61

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
8,192
Likes
853
Location
Land of the Rising Sun
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#9
Yeah but come on he's a kid playing at the elite level against a monster full forward who was desperate for goals. Its pretty hard to be competitive against someone who is impossible to use body on body against.

Of course he was trying, but his confidence was shot, and he felt he was out of his depth.

I have been a strong AC supporter, but it reminds me of a few times last year when he refused to make a move. This is the first time I'm going to be seriously critical of him.

Sure for 'development' is the reason. But I thought we were going out to win games, and not moving Dawson immediately from Rocca seemed extremely odd. I think he gets stubborn sometimes and refused to make changes.

You've got to be quicker than that and get a feel for the game.

Looking at the game again, we were matching them everywhere, starting to get on top of them in the third, and then Rocca changed the whole game. Collingwood played attacking footy knowing there were gonna score every time. If we had solely tried to stop Rocca early in the third, it could have been a different result, but instead we handed it to them by playing a skinner kid on a power forward....

Its not fair having a go at him, playing possibly the most tense position on the ground with the most pressure on you. No where to hide at fullback and he shouldn't have been asked to do it.

I'll say again, 100% behind AC, but I can not agree with playing Dawson in that position on one on the strongest players in the AFL. I hope AC doesn't put us or Zack through that again.

You are trying to build the confidence of Zack up, and give heart to the supporters, AC did neither by doing what he did on Sunday arvo IMO.
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Posts
1,207
Likes
2
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
sth Dragons, Melb Storm
#10
You could have played The Terminator on Rocca that day... it wouldn't have made a lick of difference... the man was on fire.
The fact that Dawson is young and inexperienced should forward him a little bit of sympathy.
Sure, he stopped playing dedicated footy at half time... but Johnny Hay stopped playing dedicated footy for us around Round 3 last year, and didn't pick up again at all... but everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt because he's a former star.
I'd much rather a future star rise in Dawson than a former glory burn out and fade like Hay.
 

tige19

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Posts
18,197
Likes
17,039
Location
Mar-a-lago
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
NUFC, Orlando, Packers, Trump
#11
Dawsone is a kid who is now in his 3rd year of league footy, if he hasnt learmt the ability to be intense and agressive at the contests then im afraid he will never have it. Those who want to use excuses for the guy can do so, however when these same problems keep popping there head up what are you going to say?? 'oh his a kid give him a break' 'his young his still learning the game'.

These same type of excuses have been and probably still will be used in regards to Luke Brennan. I said 2 years ago that Luke Brennan will never make a league footballer only to be belittled and abused on here, im afraid that i will be 100% correct and by seasons end Luke will not have another contract.

I also said the same about Zac Dawson 12 months ago, probably even longer. The kid is not going to be a league footballer, he is to slow, to skinny and lacks intensity, also he severly lacks in the 1%ers. Zac does not and never has chased,tackled,shepphard or punched from behind with authority.

No doubt i will be the subject of pathetic, idiotic and childish abuse for this post, however what im saying is the truth and its just sad that alot of you guys are to blinded by the fact he has a Hawthorn jumper on. If it was Williams kicking 8 on Obrien would you blokes be ripping that kid to shreads?? i think so!!!!!!!!!!

cheers
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Posts
1,207
Likes
2
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
sth Dragons, Melb Storm
#12
Good work Tige19..

So going on your theory we should never have taken Trent Croad back on board, because obviously he wasn't performing and would never amount to a good player.
Heck, isn't that the same reason we got rid of Gary Ablett... and what a useless player he went on to be.
Playing AFL against someone like Anthony Rocca is a world away from what this young man has contended with in the past.
Childish and idiotic replies to a childish and idiotic post should be expected... nay encouraged in this case.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Posts
1,717
Likes
31
Location
Here and there
AFL Club
Geelong
#13
Gee you guys can go your own. Give the kid a chance at least this week he can play on Kent Kingsley and they can both run away from each other.

Actually put him on Charlie Gardiner and they can just stand in the forward pocket and sip on warm cups of tea all day. Wont have to hit anyone, Charlie will like that.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Posts
716
Likes
4
Location
Half way to Antarctica
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#14
Geez you play on a bloke who has 20 kilos on you and is kicking goals out of his arse and tell me you just lacked intensity. Yeah the move probably should have come earlier, but i think zac will learn from it. Rocca got the yardage he had a lot of the time by bench pressing dawson and getting those 4 or 5 metres, plus the delivery into the forward line was good cause of loose players germing on the fat side. Give him a break i think you will be suprised how far Zac can go with a bit more weight and experience. I thought the kid tried his guts out.
 

bugsy

Senior List
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Posts
158
Likes
0
Location
home
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
hawks
#15
tige19 said:
Dawsone is a kid who is now in his 3rd year of league footy, if he hasnt learmt the ability to be intense and agressive at the contests then im afraid he will never have it. Those who want to use excuses for the guy can do so, however when these same problems keep popping there head up what are you going to say?? 'oh his a kid give him a break' 'his young his still learning the game'.

These same type of excuses have been and probably still will be used in regards to Luke Brennan. I said 2 years ago that Luke Brennan will never make a league footballer only to be belittled and abused on here, im afraid that i will be 100% correct and by seasons end Luke will not have another contract.

I also said the same about Zac Dawson 12 months ago, probably even longer. The kid is not going to be a league footballer, he is to slow, to skinny and lacks intensity, also he severly lacks in the 1%ers. Zac does not and never has chased,tackled,shepphard or punched from behind with authority.

No doubt i will be the subject of pathetic, idiotic and childish abuse for this post, however what im saying is the truth and its just sad that alot of you guys are to blinded by the fact he has a Hawthorn jumper on. If it was Williams kicking 8 on Obrien would you blokes be ripping that kid to shreads?? i think so!!!!!!!!!!

cheers
no abuse from me tige.
the only thing that saved Zac against Feo was DJ and Goo, coming over and spoiling.
When they have to play closer to thier men, Zac is found out.
simply, he is not good enough.
Ideally he would be playing all year for Box Hill at FB, ready to play seniors next year.
But his could be good for Hawthorn.
We can try Murphy, Thurgood (when he recovers) or even Boyle.
 

Cheeseman

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Posts
2,243
Likes
28
Location
Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Box Hill
#16
Good point Bugs, would actually love to see the Dread Baron get a gig at FB just to see how he'd fare, I have big wraps on the kid, his body may be undersized, but his heart is proportionally over sized.
As for Zac, Im sure after seeing Wade Mills get schooled last night for the Bane, and recent FB performances from various pretenders over the past 2 weeks, He wouldnt be too dismayed, He's not alone when it comes to being pantsed so far this year.
 

illnino

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Posts
5,395
Likes
1,949
Location
Closeburn, QLD
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#17
Dawson should not be playing this level of AFL full stop.:confused:

Just not ready in my opinion - needs weight, lacks courage,lacks skils in all areas......back to Box Hill I think....just for another season or so ? ? ?
 

bugsy

Senior List
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Posts
158
Likes
0
Location
home
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
hawks
#18
illnino said:
Dawson should not be playing this level of AFL full stop.:confused:

Just not ready in my opinion - needs weight, lacks courage,lacks skils in all areas......back to Box Hill I think....just for another season or so ? ? ?
I can see it both ways,
So who do we play at fullback then? And if it is a current player, who then takes his spot?

AC is banking on Dawson to progress quicker by giving him this job.

personally, i dont think Zac is up to it, but i can see what AC is trying to do.
 

Gary Shadforth

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Posts
6,588
Likes
17
Location
Coolangatta Queensland
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#20
Gary Shadforth said:
You could be right on other points you have made, illnino, but I disagree with you on the courage bit.
As I was saying ...

Well done with your game today, Zac .... you ran out there today under a lot of pressure and you came through with flying colors, albeit the proud brown and gold.
 

Pharaoh

All Australian
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Posts
907
Likes
153
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawks
#21
Gary Shadforth said:
As I was saying ...

Well done with your game today, Zac .... you ran out there today under a lot of pressure and you came through with flying colors, albeit the proud brown and gold.
Yes, well done. Unfortunately, he was still the worst player in our team today. He doesn't look like a long term footballer to me, but I hope I'm wrong.
 

Bennycoff

Premiership Player
Joined
May 28, 2005
Posts
3,702
Likes
7
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hawthorn
#23
yeah dawson did alright. kept kingsley goalless and did some nice things. he went forward late and looked ok.

one thing leave roughead back.
 

illnino

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Posts
5,395
Likes
1,949
Location
Closeburn, QLD
AFL Club
Hawthorn
#24
Well done ZAC!!!!

Not a standout game in any way but did his job.

Unbelievable considering last week......

I still believe there is a lot of work left.....but he definitly doesn't give up easily.

I still think he lacks a little (only a little:D ) bit of courage and needs a bit more beef to hang with the bigger boys ie rocca.

But credit to him and I do like him at full back so long as smith, guerra etc give him a hand.....which they did yesterday perfectly!

Let's just hope he holds his own against Fevola next week........as if the blue boys will get past our midfield anyway! :)


Bennycoff said:
one thing leave roughead back.
Agree with that 100%! Great game Roughie!
 

RustyHawk

Premium Gold
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
14,569
Likes
4,218
Location
Under the Southern Star
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Green Bay Packers
#25
illnino said:
Well done ZAC!!!!

Not a standout game in any way but did his job.

Unbelievable considering last week......

I still believe there is a lot of work left.....but he definitly doesn't give up easily.

I still think he lacks a little (only a little:D ) bit of courage and needs a bit more beef to hang with the bigger boys ie rocca.

But credit to him and I do like him at full back so long as smith, guerra etc give him a hand.....which they did yesterday perfectly!

Let's just hope he holds his own against Fevola next week........as if the blue boys will get past our midfield anyway! :)




Agree with that 100%! Great game Roughie!

Agree with you 100% illnino on all points except for Fev. Fev maybe out suspended? Shame about that :)

There are a couple of people on this forum who owe this kid a public apology for their hysterical and over the top comments at the start of this thread.

I only hope they have the guts and maturity to provide such apology, much like what they accused Dawson of lacking only just last week.

I remind all that the Hawks drafted this kid 2 years ago straight onto the senior list. I think their drafting has been excellent so far and this kid is no exception. He still is a long way off playing good consistant, tight football, but..given time, help & guidance combined with his commitment should see this guy by age 23-24 one of our top defenders for many years to come.
S
 
Top Bottom