Opposition Camp Former Freo player watch

Farrand

Club Legend
Sep 20, 2003
2,956
465
England
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Side Hawkwing
It's always a tough one because most teams have a player who gives their best and can be a liability at their worst. You can't have 18 superstars on the pitch and as such sometimes you need to fill those gaps with players with heart. And realistically, when he first started playing and we had guys like JVB, Lower, Palmer etc running about he was a cut above the these guys and, on this forum especially, pegged as a future captain.

Maybe the game moved past him, maybe he lacked confidence by the end, maybe he was played out of position who knows, but what i'd say about Suban is he was far from the worst to ever pull on the guernsey (off the top of my head I'd say Madigan might get that honour) and he played with heart despite his flaws.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
Suspended
Jul 9, 2010
23,966
25,609
AFL Club
Fremantle
Exactly.

How anyone can lament Suban and DeBoer leaving is insane. Barlow maybe but that’s coloured because he seemed a likeable guy, he showed resilience, and most of all his best was very very good.

DeBoer, Suban, Clancee, Danyle Pearce, Sheridan, Crozier were never even that good at their peak. And it was obvious their peak and come and gone.

When our results got worse those guys - who were always borderline - still kept getting games.

I think our issue is more guys like whatsisname who was on our list for three years, goes back to Subiaco, then does really well at Geelong. That’s a fu**in mare. Not to mention the boys of former players, South Fremantle players who are ignored and go on to be drafted in rookie drafts and pick 55 and become guns.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
5,756
6,607
AFL Club
Fremantle
I'm of the opinion that due to our rigid structured style - we haven't neccesarily been getting the best out of our playing list for a while now, the number of players that have moved on that are looking good at other clubs potentially indicates it too.

Mayne, de Boer, Crozier, Menegola, Collins, Neale, Weller. I'm a little intrigued to see how GWS use Sheridan.
IMO, Mayne is not playing better now than his good years at Freo (a different role though). de Boer is playing exactly as he did at Freo, as long as he isn't a link in the chain or shooting at goal from 45m then he is a great player. The problem is he has a lot of limitations. In a team like Freo 2012-15 and GWS currently those can be hidden. In Freo 2016/17 they couldn't. Crozier has done very little at the Dogs - took a good hanger though. Collins is playing well but once again no better than his games at Freo. I don't think we saw a future for him with our recruits. Neale has played 4 excellent games for the Lions like he had played many excellent games for us. Weller is hard to judge but again offered little more than his time here. Menegola himself has acknowledged that his delisting was the turn around for him.

There are a bunch of others that have left and not gone on to great successes - Balic, Barlow, Mzungu, Silvagni, Michie.
 

FreoRicci

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
10,812
9,271
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Washington Wizards
I feel like there's a bit of revisionism going on with the benefit of hindsight here.

At the time DeBoer, Mzungu and (to a lesser extent) Barlow were all seen as foot soldiers symbolic of Lyon's effort-over-class ethos we needed to make a clean break from if we wanted to rebuild a successful side.
Funny thing that.. foot soldiers over class.
Kinda have replaced them with Banfield, Conca, Colyer, Bewley albeit younger.
 

Farrand

Club Legend
Sep 20, 2003
2,956
465
England
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Side Hawkwing
It's like anything though, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Just because a player is a squib for one team, doesn't mean that a change of environment, team and coach will bring about the best potential in a person. So Croz for us was so-so and but turned it around at the bullies. One key aspect of this turn around maybe the fact that he was sought after in the trade period and that created that confidence combined with a positional change and consistent play time.

It's all a lottery but it comes down to the club on how they spend their winnings, some spend it better than others but this is because everyone is different, has different thoughts, strategies and goals.

I would hazard to say that Bradley, Fletcher, Norrish, Kickett were our examples of turning players around. So it works both ways.
 

tonygeeks

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2016
3,178
3,908
AFL Club
Fremantle
IMO, Mayne is not playing better now than his good years at Freo (a different role though). de Boer is playing exactly as he did at Freo, as long as he isn't a link in the chain or shooting at goal from 45m then he is a great player. The problem is he has a lot of limitations. In a team like Freo 2012-15 and GWS currently those can be hidden. In Freo 2016/17 they couldn't. Crozier has done very little at the Dogs - took a good hanger though. Collins is playing well but once again no better than his games at Freo. I don't think we saw a future for him with our recruits. Neale has played 4 excellent games for the Lions like he had played many excellent games for us. Weller is hard to judge but again offered little more than his time here. Menegola himself has acknowledged that his delisting was the turn around for him.

There are a bunch of others that have left and not gone on to great successes - Balic, Barlow, Mzungu, Silvagni, Michie.
Crozier played great last year the Doggies fans wanted him in the AA team and Collins is playing well because GC haven't told him to bulk up and then dumped the bloke because his mobility suffered like we did

Crozier and Collins should still be here and I'm pretty sure if we had any other coach they would be

Barlow Mayne and deBoer you are right though we needed more speed into the team and couldn't carry them all


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

FreoRicci

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
10,812
9,271
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Washington Wizards
IMO, Mayne is not playing better now than his good years at Freo (a different role though). de Boer is playing exactly as he did at Freo, as long as he isn't a link in the chain or shooting at goal from 45m then he is a great player. The problem is he has a lot of limitations. In a team like Freo 2012-15 and GWS currently those can be hidden. In Freo 2016/17 they couldn't. Crozier has done very little at the Dogs - took a good hanger though. Collins is playing well but once again no better than his games at Freo. I don't think we saw a future for him with our recruits. Neale has played 4 excellent games for the Lions like he had played many excellent games for us. Weller is hard to judge but again offered little more than his time here. Menegola himself has acknowledged that his delisting was the turn around for him.

There are a bunch of others that have left and not gone on to great successes - Balic, Barlow, Mzungu, Silvagni, Michie.
Mayne is playing incredibly better last year and started this season then Sheridan and Suttclife, who we kept. It pains me seeing De Boer and Mayne leave only for us to keep crabs like D Pearce, Suttclife and Sheridan. They’ve gone on and done better in their roles.

Sheridan won’t really amount to much if they play him as the half forward/ wing. They have Whitfield for that. Lone to be proven wrong though
 

ImperialPurple

Matthew Pavlich Medallist
May 26, 2003
19,660
8,090
South Fremantle
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Freo FC, Dinamo Zagreb
Hamling couldn’t get a game at the Cats, and only got a game at the Dogs when Adams went down. He came to us as a 23 year old with about 30 games. Now look at him - one of the best KPDs in the comp playing better than he ever has. Sometimes it’s maturity, sometimes a different environment, sometimes different chemistry with new teammates, sometimes a new coach. Lots of things can contribute to a player turning his career around.
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
5,756
6,607
AFL Club
Fremantle
Crozier played great last year the Doggies fans wanted him in the AA team and Collins is playing well because GC haven't told him to bulk up and then dumped the bloke because his mobility suffered like we did

Crozier and Collins should still be here and I'm pretty sure if we had any other coach they would be

Barlow Mayne and deBoer you are right though we needed more speed into the team and couldn't carry them all


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
Crozier 2018 vs 2016 are very similar stats, he did get more free kicks in 2018. I'd have been happy to hold Crozier, but he obviously saw more opportunity (and money) elsewhere.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=3658&pid2=3658&fid1=P&fopt1=2018&fid2=P&fopt2=2016

Mayne is playing incredibly better last year and started this season then Sheridan and Suttclife, who we kept. It pains me seeing De Boer and Mayne leave only for us to keep crabs like D Pearce, Suttclife and Sheridan. They’ve gone on and done better in their roles.

Sheridan won’t really amount to much if they play him as the half forward/ wing. They have Whitfield for that. Lone to be proven wrong though
Mayne left as a free agent. Woudln't couldn't keep him if he wanted out. Of the rest, sometimes list management decisions are made due to contracts. Of all the players named (other than free agent Mayne) can you honestly say that keeping any of them over others would have made a difference?
 

Docker82

Premiership Player
Jun 21, 2013
3,034
3,258
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Can’t help but think we gave too many players contracts that were too long between 3-6 years ago and it contributed massively to screwing up our list. And De Boer was one of those - as a fringe player over 23 he should’ve been rolling over on one year contracts. You could’ve made a case for delisting him end of 2015. Somehow he’s apparently a better player than he ever was here. Newsflash - he’s the same player he was for us between 2012 and 2014. We just decided his role was redundant- GWS decided otherwise and well done to them.

Can’t help that think we’ve done to same thing again. Several admittedly younger players have been given long term contracts before they’ve shown anything to suggest they’ll be long term players. Giving Matera and Colyer three year contracts is generous verging on stupid as well. Hope it doesn’t cost another Barlow their spot on the list. Should’ve spent two years longer on our list.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

ImperialPurple

Matthew Pavlich Medallist
May 26, 2003
19,660
8,090
South Fremantle
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Freo FC, Dinamo Zagreb
Crozier 2018 vs 2016 are very similar stats, he did get more free kicks in 2018. I'd have been happy to hold Crozier, but he obviously saw more opportunity (and money) elsewhere.
My understanding is that Freo offered him 2 years and no guarantee he’d get a regular game in the 1s, while Bulldogs offered him 3 years, on better money and a spot in their 22.
 

FreoRicci

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
10,812
9,271
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Washington Wizards
Can’t help but think we gave too many players contracts that were too long between 3-6 years ago and it contributed massively to screwing up our list. And De Boer was one of those - as a fringe player over 23 he should’ve been rolling over on one year contracts. You could’ve made a case for delisting him end of 2015. Somehow he’s apparently a better player than he ever was here. Newsflash - he’s the same player he was for us between 2012 and 2014. We just decided his role was redundant- GWS decided otherwise and well done to them.

Can’t help that think we’ve done to same thing again. Several admittedly younger players have been given long term contracts before they’ve shown anything to suggest they’ll be long term players. Giving Matera and Colyer three year contracts is generous verging on stupid as well. Hope it doesn’t cost another Barlow their spot on the list. Should’ve spent two years longer on our list.
De Boer would’ve done nicely on Hurn. No matter how negative or frustrating these role players are, they’re a necessity. Saw that the last two weeks, tagged Dusty then towelled up Dangerfield.

Just to get rid of them to only trade picks for Conca, Colyer and Bewley isn’t great management. Didn’t make the proper list changes, rather cleaned abruptly and suffered since. We needed leadership and experience to help Brayshaw and Cerra. Now they’re both straight into the 22 expecting to play like veterans. That’s unfair.
 

Nickos66

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 22, 2010
16,374
7,880
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
"Gave his best" might cut it in a primary school athletics carnival, but not so much in the context of being a premiership contender where every small advantage you can gain over the opposition matters. Suban was passable at best and a significant liability at worst.
That's the main thing Ross asks of his players - is to "Give great effort".

Which is probably why he had such a long tenure with us despite his shortcomings as a footballer.
 

Dockers v Channel7West

Team Captain
Aug 6, 2018
536
912
Karratha or Windsor Hotel
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Virus free East Perth
Crozier 2018 vs 2016 are very similar stats, he did get more free kicks in 2018. I'd have been happy to hold Crozier, but he obviously saw more opportunity (and money) elsewhere.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid2=8&type=A&pid1=3658&pid2=3658&fid1=P&fopt1=2018&fid2=P&fopt2=2016



Mayne left as a free agent. Woudln't couldn't keep him if he wanted out. Of the rest, sometimes list management decisions are made due to contracts. Of all the players named (other than free agent Mayne) can you honestly say that keeping any of them over others would have made a difference?
Good on Mayne for reinventing himself at the Pies but when he left and we got pick 26 as compensation it took a week to get the gravel out of my hands from doing cartwheels

It was the deel of the decade and for two years Buckly would have been fuming
 

Docker82

Premiership Player
Jun 21, 2013
3,034
3,258
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
De Boer would’ve done nicely on Hurn. No matter how negative or frustrating these role players are, they’re a necessity. Saw that the last two weeks, tagged Dusty then towelled up Dangerfield.

Just to get rid of them to only trade picks for Conca, Colyer and Bewley isn’t great management. Didn’t make the proper list changes, rather cleaned abruptly and suffered since. We needed leadership and experience to help Brayshaw and Cerra. Now they’re both straight into the 22 expecting to play like veterans. That’s unfair.
Role players are necessary but they are generally rolled over on one year contracts and thrown away as soon as they aren’t best 22 like De Boer was. It was so so obvious he wasn’t best 22 at the end of 2016 it wasn’t funny. Look at Mark Hutchings - West Coast’s best tagger re-signed recently until 2020. That’s next year! - Freo of 2012-2014 would give him until 2022 and realise he’s not best 22 half way through 2021.

That’s an AFL thing to cut players over 23 not getting games - not a Freo thing.

Cerra already is playing out of position because there isn’t a spot for him where he should.

De Boer was finished here and was since half way through 2015, as were Mzungu and C.Pearce. Silvagni and Hannath were average depth players at best most clubs would’ve thrown out because they had better options. The sad thing was so did Freo yet we kept them anyway. Zac Clarke even at his most s**t was twice the player Hannath was and any decent club delists Silvagni the season it’s clear Alex Pearce was better which was from his first AFL game. Also D.Pearce getting two extra years at 30+ was baffling at best.
 

masai

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 18, 2002
9,850
5,294
A bay at Rotto
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Rottnest
Kid turned 19 in Nov. I'm guessing there might be a bit of development in him still.
I reckon he is still suffering from a bit of shell shock, will start gaining a bit of confidence shortly.

Geez we are starting to judge 19 year olds really early. At 19, Leon Baker was wandering around in board shorts, playing country football.
 

Witch1

Senior List
Sep 4, 2016
242
296
MCG
AFL Club
Fremantle
So who’s this Michael Barlow that dale thomas has been mouthing off at?
Surprised at Daisy. Saw him on last Footy Show and he was very laid back and relaxed - a personable guy.

Speaking of (player) Barlow, seems his media skills are in demand and has scored a pretty cushy gig on Channel 7 GameDay. Not sure if it's a regular thing but good to see.
 
Top Bottom