Formula One in 2017

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Sven said:
The halo could definitely have saved Bianchi's life, indeed I believe the halo is a direct reaction to his death. Senna and Ratzenberger were so long ago that their accidents are irrelevant to modern F1.
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DamoESP said:
What WOULD have saved his life was the tractor not being there on the course where it was during wet weather, but the FIA would never admit that.
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Also would've helped if he wasn't speeding under double yellows. The Halo is a knee jerk reaction to an accident that had other causes and to accidents in other categories where the circumstances can't always be applied to F1.
 

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Simple Jack said:
???
Sure he hasn't had an Alonso 2012 type effort (in recent times who else has?) but going into Abu Dhabi 2010 with a chance to win the title as well as winning a race (or more? can't remember) in 09. He's definitely performed well in cars other than the best.

Vettel on the other hand has never won a race from lower than 3rd (or at least hadn't as of last year) and the only year in the last 7 he hasn't had a geriatric, over the hill team mate he was embarrassed, not getting near a win with just the second best car. Unless he has a dominant car he's absolutely nowhere.

It always blows my mind in the extreme whenever people put Vettel anywhere near the Alonso/Hamilton bracket.
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I dont think that Seb has ever out driven a car either.
Fernando is the only one on the current grid that seems to be able to.

Both Seb and Lewis are very reliant on thier Car being up to standard,
 
DamoESP said:
Was it 2012 where Hamilton got smashed by a string of retirements and issues that destroyed his races in the second half of the season when he was pretty close to ALO/VET in the WDC? I seem to remember one of those years that VET won the WDC, HAM had shocking reliability issues or something.
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I'm not going to deny that Hamilton missed out on some likely wins due to reliability. But to use "shocking" is a bit of a stretch. Even if he didn't have those issues, Alonso is the "F1 Brownlow" winner for 2012.

But looking at the wiki page , without recalling the circumstances off the top of my head, I looked up the standings. Hamilton has 5dnf plus a classified finisher in 19th. Vettel has one dnf plus a 22nd place.

Excluding those races. Vettel averages 15.61 points per finish. Hamilton, 13.57 ppf.

Taking away the points Vettel gained on Hamilton in Hamo's dnfs. He has 205pts. Excluding points Hamilton gained when Vettel retired, he has 165.

So aside from missing out on getting the most wins that year (which is good to get even without winning the championship), he wasn't a big deal anyway.
 
More pieces about to fall into place for 2018

McLaren-Honda saga announcements to begin

A spate of announcements regarding the McLaren-Honda-Toro Rosso-Renault saga is set to begin.

Reports over the weekend suggested the meat of the entire complex saga is now on the bones, with McLaren to team up with Renault after splitting with Honda.

"The Japanese company has now accepted it is leaving McLaren to supply Toro Rosso from 2018," said the Spanish daily Marca.

Many of the actual contracts will apparently be signed in the coming hours and days, ahead of the Singapore grand prix this weekend.

Honda's McLaren split and deal with Toro Rosso, for instance, "will be made public on Wednesday or Thursday", the same sports newspaper added.

Marca is following the story closely, as both of F1's Spanish drivers are centrally involved.

Satisfied with the Renault engine deal, Fernando Alonso looks set to stay at McLaren, but it is rumoured the British team "has proposed a salary reduction" for the 36-year-old due to the lost millions in Honda backing.

And Carlos Sainz is also part of the whole saga, reportedly as a 'sweetener' as Toro Rosso moves from Renault to Honda power.

The 23-year-old is joining Nico Hulkenberg at the works Renault team, with at least a two-year contract that could actually get a head-start from Malaysia next month.

"As is his style and the environment he has created, (Red Bull's) Helmut Marko could decide that he does not want to keep Sainz" beyond Singapore, Marca reported.

Red Bull junior Pierre Gasly looks ready to step in, but the Frenchman may have put his foot in it by declaring to the Japanese press that he is looking forward to debuting at Sepang.
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so.... McLaren gets Renault power and retains Alonso, Toro Rosso get Honda power, gain Pierre Gasly and lose Carlos Sainz, Renault get Carlos Sainz at the expense of Joylon Palmer.

all yet to be confirmed though.....

You would expect that Toro Rosso is acting as the test team for Red Bull with RB moving to Honda only after the engine is shown to be competitive. Whether or not that actually happens will depend heavily on whether or not Honda can actually develop a good engine.
 
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Sven said:
More pieces about to fall into place for 2018



so.... McLaren gets Renault power and retains Alonso, Toro Rosso get Honda power, gain Pierre Gasly and lose Carlos Sainz, Renault get Carlos Sainz at the expense of Joylon Palmer.

all yet to be confirmed though.....

You would expect that Toro Rosso is acting as the test team for Red Bull with RB moving to Honda only after the engine is shown to be competitive. Whether or not that actually happens will depend heavily on whether or not Honda can actually develop a good engine.
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I think its a good strategy by Redbull. They get to stick with what works while developing a potentially successful engine for the future through the sister team. It'll be interesting to see if it'll pay dividends.
 
RolandF1 said:
I think its a good strategy by Redbull. They get to stick with what works while developing a potentially successful engine for the future through the sister team. It'll be interesting to see if it'll pay dividends.
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Completely agree, Redbull tried to get Honda engines last year during their brief falling out with Renault and it looks like they're still tying to go in that direction. Or at least to have the option to go in that direction.
 
Valtteri Bottas signs new Mercedes deal for 2018 season

Valtteri Bottas has signed a new contract with Mercedes to race for the Formula 1 world champions in 2018.

The Finnish driver joined Mercedes on a one-year deal in January 2017, as a replacement for retired world champion Nico Rosberg.

The 28-year-old is third in this year's drivers' championship with two wins from 13 races. Team-mate Lewis Hamilton leads the standings.

Bottas is in his fifth season in F1, having also driven for Williams.

"When the team hired me for the 2017 season, they took a leap of faith by putting their trust in my skills," said Bottas.

"This new contract shows that I've earned that trust."

Prior to joining Mercedes, Bottas had never won a race and had achieved nine podium finishes, a figure he has already matched this season.

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said: "Bottas' upward trajectory made it a no-brainer for us to continue with him into 2018.

"The chemistry and dynamic between Valtteri and Lewis works and are what we need to take the fight to our competitors."
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Sven said:
Completely agree, Redbull tried to get Honda engines last year during their brief falling out with Renault and it looks like they're still tying to go in that direction. Or at least to have the option to go in that direction.
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Looks like the decision to go to Honda may have been forced onto Redbull, with Renault apparently terminating their engine supply deal at the end of next season

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-4883082/Renault-terminate-contract-Red-Bull.html
 
Reckon Dan will be out the door if we don't see huge improvement by Honda
 

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hey shorty said:
Reckon Dan will be out the door if we don't see huge improvement by Honda
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To where though ?
Both Lewis and Sebastian have made it pretty clear that they prefer to have a number two driver that isn't a threat and tows the line. Dan would not be that for either.
A move to Mercedes or Ferrari would mean either of those two going

At this stage Dan is in the best car he can realistically get himself into. Max as well.
 
happy_eagle said:
To where though ?
Both Lewis and Sebastian have made it pretty clear that they prefer to have a number two driver that isn't a threat and tows the line. Dan would not be that for either.
A move to Mercedes or Ferrari would mean either of those two going

At this stage Dan is in the best car he can realistically get himself into. Max as well.
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Renault ??

I can't see RBR being competitive with even a slight upgrade on this Honda engine. 2021 might be too late for ADR.
 
hey shorty said:
Renault ??

I can't see RBR being competitive with even a slight upgrade on this Honda engine. 2021 might be too late for ADR.
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Renault are the dark horses I agree, given they are one of the few works teams
Having said that, nothing I have seen from them this year has given me confidence they will challenge next year.
 
happy_eagle said:
To where though ?
Both Lewis and Sebastian have made it pretty clear that they prefer to have a number two driver that isn't a threat and tows the line. Dan would not be that for either.
A move to Mercedes or Ferrari would mean either of those two going

At this stage Dan is in the best car he can realistically get himself into. Max as well.
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In 2019 there will be opportunities at Mercedes and at Ferrari.

IMO Mercedes are much more likely to want a 1a and a 1b, whereas Ferrari has preferred at clear distinction between the #1 and #2 drivers. With Vettel locked into Ferrari for the next three years that probably means there would be next to no chance that Verstappen gets a Ferrari drive and therefore I see the logical move for Ricciardo would be to Ferrari.

The big question is how long Hamilton is going to sign on for with Mercedes, as that could have massive implications for anyone wanting to move there. I would see both Ricciardo and Verstappen interested in moving to Mercedes if Hamilton only signed on for another two years instead of three.
 
Sven said:
In 2019 there will be opportunities at Mercedes and at Ferrari.

IMO Mercedes are much more likely to want a 1a and a 1b, whereas Ferrari has preferred at clear distinction between the #1 and #2 drivers. With Vettel locked into Ferrari for the next three years that probably means there would be next to no chance that Verstappen gets a Ferrari drive and therefore I see the logical move for Ricciardo would be to Ferrari.

The big question is how long Hamilton is going to sign on for with Mercedes, as that could have massive implications for anyone wanting to move there. I would see both Ricciardo and Verstappen interested in moving to Mercedes if Hamilton only signed on for another two years instead of three.
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I'd be keen to see how Ricciardo would fare alongside Hamilton. It's no secret that I'm a Hamilton fan but I think he needs a teammate who can push him to inspire him. Dan fits that bill. We already know how Dan would fare against Vettel, so it's no surprise Seb would veto any move to Ferrari.
 
RBR have just announced their title partnership with Aston Martin.

The rumours are true: in 2018 we'll be competing as Aston Martin Red Bull Racing. Today we're announcing Aston Martin as our title partner from the 2018 season. We've been working with the world famous sportscar maker for 18 months and this is the logical next step in strengthening our relationship.
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http://www.redbullracing.com/article/driving-future-innovation

Next step, Aston Martin engines?
 
happy_eagle said:
Unfortunately it means very little in the short term if they are still a Renault customer team.
I would have thought the Honda experiment would have scared off a few teams about seeking new engine suppliers
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They're only engine suppliers for next year though
 
hey shorty said:
They're only engine suppliers for next year though
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It would be in RBR's best interest to somehow try and talk their way into a Ferrari or Mercedes engine, and allow Aston Martin at least 3-4 years of developing an F1 engine with Torro (unlikely given Torro have now gone to Honda).
If Red Bull go down the Aston Martin engine route as soon as possible (2019) then they will end up in McLaren's current position, and I am confident that neither Max or Daniel will be willing to stick around like Fernando has.

The ideal scenario for them would be that Honda manages to pull its finger out (with some funding help) and then provides Red Bull with a competitive engine. I just can't see Aston Martin developing something soo complex and new in such a short period of time.
 
happy_eagle said:
It would be in RBR's best interest to somehow try and talk their way into a Ferrari or Mercedes engine, and allow Aston Martin at least 3-4 years of developing an F1 engine with Torro (unlikely given Torro have now gone to Honda).
If Red Bull go down the Aston Martin engine route as soon as possible (2019) then they will end up in McLaren's current position, and I am confident that neither Max or Daniel will be willing to stick around like Fernando has.

The ideal scenario for them would be that Honda manages to pull its finger out (with some funding help) and then provides Red Bull with a competitive engine. I just can't see Aston Martin developing something soo complex and new in such a short period of time.
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Aston Martin would only be interested in supplying an engine when the rules change in 2021. The current engines, and suppliers are locked in until then
 
Feel for Gasly, great to be in F1, but driving a Torro Rosso chassis with a Honda power unit basically means competing with Sauber for 10th and 11th in the constructors championship. He's better than that.

Sainz dodged a bullet for now, but if Renault give RBR the arse end of 2018 he'll be forced back after Verstackin and ADR both move on.
 
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