Analysis Forward Line and Attack

[free at last]

It's not a wrist slitting thread at all. It's just trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with our forward line, our main area of weakness. Our success this year has been built on the strength of our midfield and midfield scoring, as well as our rock solid backline. Our forward line is still dysfunctional. It's hard to tell whether this is by design (not to show our hand early enough to be worked out) or whether we really have no plan B.

We're just speculating on how it would be possible to tweak it as we build into the pointy end of the season.

Having jonno(freo quarterback) out injured is not helping at all.Until jonno returns we've gotta hang tough.

 

[sherrif]

I really think our forward line was functioning well until the wet weather has set in in our last three games. Both Clarke and Tabs play a lot better when the weather is dry. My personal view is that we need to select teams based on playing our best in the expected conditions. If I was selecting the team I would play an extra runner and leave out tabs when rain is expected, with Mayne to play deep, but then play Tabs when the weather is dry. I also think we would get more out of Barlow if he was given more time onball. I would play a rotation of Mundy and Fyfe more forward and Barlow more midfield.

 

[clogged]

Having jonno(freo quarterback) out injured is not helping at all.Until jonno returns we've gotta hang tough.

What happens if Johnson doesn't return?

 

[Mudd]

couple of issues that I can see

1. we don't have a semi decent KPF besides Pav, I know Tabs has put in lots of work but lets take our purple coloured glasses off, both him and hannath are very limited players (I don't want to use the term spuds). I'm not asking for Carey v2 but even someone like Ben Brown would require opposition to pay attention to.

2. our small forwards aren't crumbers, ballas isn't a 1 touch player and walters is better in space. So the strategy of bombing it on top of the resting rucks head (who can't mark it) doesn't work to well as the defence with the +1 has more numbers back to run the ball out.

Also as already mentioned we have a tendency to short pass to a contest at the top of the square when our mids are inside/just on the 50 arc instead of backing them to have a shot on the run.

not sure how its fixed with our cattle available, our most dangerous forward setup at the moment seems to be fyfe 1v1 alone in the 50.

 

[smokingjacket]

At the moment we're still not complete down back. Even though Ibbo has been doing an outstanding job playing on their third tall, providing rebound. We still rely on 'dirty ball' to help out our defence. Ideally if we could get McPharlin, Dawson and Johnson all playing down back at the same time, I think we'll be freed up a fair bit to roll the dice with manning up the opposition spare in forward fifty.

A couple of times in Ross's presser he mentioned a worry about getting hit on the counter. He's a fairly conservative, defensively minded coach so his first instinct is to make sure we're hard to score against.

My feeling is when we get Dawson back he'll trust the backline to hold up a bit better, then we can put more effort in to making the most of our clearance work - forward 50 work without having to worry as much about getting hit the other way.

 

[theGav56]

If Dawson or Silvagni come back I would be interested to try Pearce 3 forward. Don't want to confuse the young man but we have a need and he seems smarter and more skilled than Taberner.

 

[rgauci]

Ross also alluded to the fact the forward line was letting us down, something along the lines of "the forwards just have to win ball" or something like that". Saying the game turned when we put Fyfe forward.

The problem is our midfield don't back he selves from 50 and our forwards aren't winning nearly enough one on ones.

 

[free at last]

What happens if Johnson doesn't return?

I don't like our chances of winning the flag if jonno doesn't return IMO.

I'm confident jonno will return,his injury is similar to Sam Mitchell's torn hammy and he returned in the 8-10 week time frame.

 

[Pusswah]

It's an interesting one. Not to put on the don't argue, but I grabbed some numbers;

A horrible game this week, what might be described as an average game last week. Could be perception after some greasy weeks I think. I believe that 50% over the season might be described as 'a good spread'. I'd have a look at some other clubs but honestly I cbf finding another site for stats and AFL.com doesn't make it time effective.


As the great man might say; 'It's a good observation, but in reality it's never as good or as bad as you think. If I can be frank.'

 

[darkshines]

At the moment we're still not complete down back. Even though Ibbo has been doing an outstanding job playing on their third tall, providing rebound. We still rely on 'dirty ball' to help out our defence. Ideally if we could get McPharlin, Dawson and Johnson all playing down back at the same time, I think we'll be freed up a fair bit to roll the dice with manning up the opposition spare in forward fifty.

A couple of times in Ross's presser he mentioned a worry about getting hit on the counter. He's a fairly conservative, defensively minded coach so his first instinct is to make sure we're hard to score against.

My feeling is when we get Dawson back he'll trust the backline to hold up a bit better, then we can put more effort in to making the most of our clearance work - forward 50 work without having to worry as much about getting hit the other way.

Bang on IMO. Understandably doesnt want to expose quasi-defenders like Sutty, Sheridan etc to slingshot footy. When Dawson McP and MJ are reunited, bet we'll return to the aggression of early rounds.

 

[FreoRicci]

Tabs has gone from the solution to the problem, and I think all our forward problems could be exaggerated because of it.

Our midfielders aren't kicking to him anymore, because he's spent weeks dropping everything. So of course Pav gets double-teamed because the ball's always going to go to him. Tabs doesn't even need a KPD on him, literally any defender will do, because if he's not by himself, the balls not going towards him.

And our mosquitos have stopped crumbing and seem to be trying to go for marks more often, or playing out of position. So many times Tabs has gone for a mark, dropped it, and there's no one there to crumb it.

The biggest thing I got out of today, wasn't just how we kicked at goal, but who actually kicked the goals: Fyfe 2, Suban, Hannath, Crozier, Neale
That's a whooooole lot of midfield there. I'm hoping Ross started Fyfe in FF after half time just to prove to our forwards that's not that ******* hard to kick a goal

Spot on. It's been the psyche of the the club for a while, just haven't had a stable combo for the midfielders to confidently kick to- just Pav himself alone vs 2-3 defenders. Zac Clarke suffers form the same thing, he can't mark solidly even with a shorter opponent so therefore Pav is the only option to go to who can win the battles 50%+ of the time. Last year Mayne dipped in form hugely as the second forward, so Pav handled the load. I think the coaches just need to stop chopping and changing the forward line and settle on Tabs/Pav/Mayne combo or Clarke/Pav/Mayne. Roughead, Rioli, Bruest, Gunston and Puopolo at Hawthorn have barely changed since Buddy left. They got the chemistry right and understand each other's game.

 

[freoextra]

For sure the forward line has hit a flat spot but I think the reintroduction of Mayne for the next game will help. The forward line seems to really feed of his pressure.

When Pav gets his marking and kicking boots back on and our centre clearances get back to the level of the beginning of the year we should be fine.

I mean, Pav, Son Son, Ballas, Mayne, Crozier (keep him in ahead of Sheridan at moment) Taberner and Fyfe and Hill drifting down is more than enough firepower.

 

[freoextra]

Spot on. It's been the psyche of the the club for a while, just haven't had a stable combo for the midfielders to confidently kick to- just Pav himself alone vs 2-3 defenders. Zac Clarke suffers form the same thing, he can't mark solidly even with a shorter opponent so therefore Pav is the only option to go to who can win the battles 50%+ of the time. Last year Mayne dipped in form hugely as the second forward, so Pav handled the load. I think the coaches just need to stop chopping and changing the forward line and settle on Tabs/Pav/Mayne combo or Clarke/Pav/Mayne. Roughead, Rioli, Bruest, Gunston and Puopolo at Hawthorn have barely changed since Buddy left. They got the chemistry right and understand each other's game.

Disappointed with Clarke! Really thought his marking and effort had gone to a new level and then we go back to square one. Clearly the best option but he needs this kick in the backside well before our finals games. He actually took a lot of pressure off Pav for the first 5-6 games.

 

[Fireballs]

If we kicked straight, would this even be a thread?

 

[FreoRicci]

Disappointed with Clarke! Really thought his marking and effort had gone to a new level and then we go back to square one. Clearly the best option but he needs this kick in the backside well before our finals games. He actually took a lot of pressure off Pav for the first 5-6 games.

Yeah he works well as the resting ruckman/forward. Just not as a primarily 2nd forward. We still need to keep persisting with Tabs, he's worth it right now. I think by round 15 we should have the right combo and stay with it. We're relying on Fyfe and Pav up forward to drag us over the line in close games. That's what separating us from Hawks and Swans.

 

[Scham]

Mayne in for Tabs against the Pies IMO.

 

[Scham]

Yeah he works well as the resting ruckman/forward. Just not as a primarily 2nd forward. We still need to keep persisting with Tabs, he's worth it right now. I think by round 15 we should have the right combo and stay with it. We're relying on Fyfe and Pav up forward to drag us over the line in close games. That's what separating us from Hawks and Swans.

I think Tabs needs to go back to the WAFL for a few weeks and get his touch back and hopefully build his confidence.

A forward line of Pav, Resting ruck, Mayne, Crozier, Balla and Walters is good enough and rotate Fyfe, Neale and Barlow through their too.

 

[FreoRicci]

It's an interesting one. Not to put on the don't argue, but I grabbed some numbers;

Fyfe further to that has 13 goals as he's often midfielder resting forward type.
Interestingly enough, Sandi and Clarke only have 8 goals combined this season.. Sandi 3 with Clarke 5.

 

[E Shed]

As the great man might say; 'It's a good observation, but in reality it's never as good or as bad as you think. If I can be frank.'

You can be Frank but to be honest I don't have that luxury.

 

[ydraw]

Spot on. It's been the psyche of the the club for a while, just haven't had a stable combo for the midfielders to confidently kick to- just Pav himself alone vs 2-3 defenders. Zac Clarke suffers form the same thing, he can't mark solidly even with a shorter opponent so therefore Pav is the only option to go to who can win the battles 50%+ of the time. Last year Mayne dipped in form hugely as the second forward, so Pav handled the load. I think the coaches just need to stop chopping and changing the forward line and settle on Tabs/Pav/Mayne combo or Clarke/Pav/Mayne. Roughead, Rioli, Bruest, Gunston and Puopolo at Hawthorn have barely changed since Buddy left. They got the chemistry right and understand each other's game.

Sorry but this is absolute horseshit. Our attack has been greatly improved this year with all 4 of Pav, Tabs, Clarke and Mayne playing. People seem to be massively overreacting to 2 talls having poor games in terrible wet conditions and forgettting how good those 2 guys have been up until this point.

 

[ydraw]

A forward line of Pav, Resting ruck, Mayne, Crozier, Balla and Walters is good enough and rotate Fyfe, Neale and Barlow through their too.

Our last 3 seasons where we have been the lowest scoring team in the league show that it isn't. Since Taberner joined the side our scoring has improved. I can't believe so many people want to throw out our entire game plan just because he grassed a few marks.

 

[Scham]

Our last 3 seasons where we have been the lowest scoring team in the league show that it isn't. Since Taberner joined the side our scoring has improved. I can't believe so many people want to throw out our entire game plan just because he grassed a few marks.

Are you saying that the only difference between this season and our last 3 is that we've added Tabener?

 

[FreoRicci]

Sorry but this is absolute horseshit. Our attack has been greatly improved this year with all 4 of Pav, Tabs, Clarke and Mayne playing. People seem to be massively overreacting to 2 talls having poor games in terrible wet conditions and forgettting how good those 2 guys have been up until this point.

Look I'm not just basing it off this season, but previous seasons as well. I definitely agree it's been improved with the inclusion of Tabs as well as Clarke, no doubt. Just the understanding of who's FF/CHF rather then having three players drawn to the same contest when a high ball happens. Once we get the roles right, we look great. It's been no secret we have been Pav-centric in the past.

 

[mattis117]

The main problem is Taberner just cannot hold onto it, as soon as it is dewy or wet, he literally contributes nothing.

There aren't a lot of options that the club have, but I would hope they would look at the conditions pre-game and pick a side that suits the conditions. Taberner should have been a late withdrawal yesterday, with Deboer coming in for him (not sure if he travelled, I think he was there?).

The most frustrating thing right now is watching Tabs spill 9/10 marking attempts, if anyone puts any contact on him, he will drop it every time.

Freo will continue to dominate the midfield, let's just hope they fix the forward line in the second half of the season.

 

[electricfeel]

Walters is getting better but we need a massive lift from him and Ballas. Hopefully the second half of the season we'll see some more goals from them.