Analysis Forward Line and Attack

[Grape Bear]

A strong first half of the season, eight good wins in a row, and better scoring from our mids have papered over the cracks in our forward line.

We've gone in taller this year, with Tabs as our 2nd genuine KPF, which was clearly benefiting Pav in earlier games by drawing a defender away from him. However, it seems in the last 3 games, opposition coaches have found his measure, judged him not as dangerous, and are now double teaming Pav again. Mayne as 3rd tall is closer to his best form of 2013, but still not utilised in attack as much as he is as a defensive forward to turn the ball over and lock it in our forward half.

To make it worse, Ballas and Walters have found it difficult to work themselves into games this season, though Walters seems to be in a better space than Ballas. Clearly the new forward structure has taken some adjusting to for our smalls, but it's a concern that for the last three games, when they should have been crumbing and scoring in the conditions, we have had no return from them. Ballas and Walters obviously have a lot of upside, and we'll have our two goals a game if they can start firing. Is it just an issue of their form being down, or is it how we are organising (or not organising) our forward line?

What do we need to do to maximise our midfield dominance and translate it into good scores?

 

[stormee]

A strong first half of the season, eight good wins in a row, and better scoring from our mids have peppered over the cracks in our forward line.

We've gone in taller this year, with Tabs as our 2nd genuine KPF, which was clearly benefiting Pav in earlier games by drawing a defender away from him. However, it seems in the last 3 games, opposition coaches have found his measure, judged him not as dangerous, and are now double teaming Pav again. Mayne as 3rd tall is closer to his best form of 2013, but still not utilised in attack as much as he is as a defensive forward to turn the ball over and lock it in our forward half.

To make it worse, Ballas and Walters have found it difficult to work themselves into games this season, though Walters seems to be in a better space than Ballas. Clearly the new forward structure has taken some adjusting to for our smalls, but it's a concern that for the last three games, when they should have been crumbing and scoring in the conditions, we have had no return from them. Ballas and Walters obviously have a lot of upside, and we'll have our two goals a game if they can start firing. Is it just an issue of their form being down, or is it how we are organising (or not organising) our forward line?

What do we need to do to maximise our midfield dominance and translate it into good scores?

Possibly, but it might also be that it's been wet/slippery for the last three games. I also noticed today Ballas and Walters spent a lot of time up the ground. Don't know why but it's harder to kick goals from the midfield. Also Mayne in today would had helped.

Edit: That's not to say I don't think our fwd line is our biggest weakness. It is.

 

[Taylor]

Ideally we would run our half forwards back towards goal to crumb the long penetration inside fifties but unless we win the ball cleanly out of the middle the handball chain between unopposed half backs will cut us up on the rebound.

Perhaps two deep talls, two mid deep smalls and two fast half forwards being mindful of the running half backs.

 

[Grape Bear]

Possibly, but it might also be that it's been wet/slippery for the last three games. I also noticed today Ballas and Walters spent a lot of time up the ground. Don't know why but it's harder to kick goals from the midfield. Also Mayne in today would had helped.

Edit: That's not to say I don't think our fwd line is our biggest weakness. It is.

I don't understand why both of them have to play so high up, to be honest, it's galling sometimes to find the forward 50 completely empty with no anchor for when we go on the counter. I wonder if fatigue is part of the issue with our inaccuracy, would all the running we do affect our finishing?

While I love our team ethos of going for the high percentage and passing on, there are times I wish our guys would just back themselves in when they are in reasonable range and try to kick the ****ing goal themselves.

 

[ydraw]

Mayne isn't a 3rd tall. He's shorter than most of our midfielders.

Obviously tall forwards are going to look shit in wet games where they get terrible service. I think it's a bit of an overreaction.

 

[Scham]

Definitely a big concern but Im backing the coaches in to turn it around after the bye. We've got the players but they're not being used properly yet. No point showing all of your aces early in the game. Better to keep a few up your sleeve for when it counts.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

The wet hasn't helped.

Especially with the small forwards. Normally you'd say it'd be good conditions for smalls. However I think Ballantyne is actually worse in wet weather. He slips over more and absolutely cannot change direction at speed. Walters is fine but has been playing further up.

TBH I think it's just a dearth of goal-scoring talent. It was fine the first 5-6 games when we were dominant in the middle and Hill and Danyle were hitting anyone inside the 50 on the chest. But when we have to create something out of nothing, it's Pav or bust. Both Hill and PearceD have been pretty shit the last few weeks, and I think it's no coincidence that our scoring has dropped off with that.

I would like Crozier to stay in. I think he offers something up forwards in terms of sheer talent that we can use, although he had less impact today than I would have liked. Mayne probably has to come back for the pressure which our game plan requires, but I reckon you'd be well served rolling Walters and Crozier between the middle and the forward line.

 

[Scham]

After the bye Mayne should come in for Tabs. That'd be a better set up.

 

[Grape Bear]

Mayne isn't a 3rd tall. He's shorter than most of our midfielders.

Obviously tall forwards are going to look shit in wet games where they get terrible service. I think it's a bit of an overreaction.

We've always been very disorganised in our forward line. It's not just in relation to the last three games. We've looked better at it this year, with two genuine talls as targets, plus our resting ruck, but it's the first line that breaks down. Ballas and Walters (with the exception of the last two rounds) have been down on their usual output since the year began.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I did lose my shit though when Hannath punched a mark out of Pav's hands in the 3rd though, that really didn't help his forward line case.

 

[Grape Bear]

I did lose my shit though when Hannath punched a mark out of Pav's hands in the 3rd though, that really didn't help his forward line case.

Hannath needs to practice with Pav so he can learn his patterns, don't think he's had much opportunity to do that this summer. Is there any hope we can get him to be just a forward ala Tabs?

 

[Admiral Byng]

We seem to be over-using the ball a bit. We seem to be looking for a mark and a relatively easy set shot 10-25m as the outcome of every inside 50m. Sometimes we need to take the shot from further out on the run rather than pop it up just outside the goal-square.

I know it's footy folk-lore that you set it up to the top of the square and let the bigs blokes have a crack at it, or if not bring it to ground for the crumbers waiting front-and-square to have a snap. But it's not working for us, the only genuinely good crumber we've got right now is Neale, Walters and Ballas just aren't quite genuine crumbers for mine, they are more movement type players.

I think we need more movement in the forward line. Maybe the resting ruck needs to stand in the goal-square and let the others lead at the kicker. Mids should be free to pull the trigger from just outside the 50 if they haven't got a target with a clear advantage. Maybe Sandi standing in the goal square can shepherd a few through instead of attempting to mark.

 

[Grape Bear]

We seem to be over-using the ball a bit. We seem to be looking for a mark and a relatively easy set shot 10-25m as the outcome of every inside 50m. Sometimes we need to take the shot from further out on the run rather than pop it up just outside the goal-square.

Mids should be free to pull the trigger from just outside the 50 if they haven't got a target with a clear advantage. Maybe Sandi standing in the goal square can shepherd a few through instead of attempting to mark.

This. I think this is a team directive and that there are just a few players with the license to bomb it long into goal from outside (except when we are on slingshot). The impression I got from the post-Adelaide interviews with Barlow is that he would have been in a world of pain if his kick for goal had gone awry, as the expectation was for him to centre it.

One of our strengths as a team is how disciplined we are at following the game plan and structures. On the downside, it seems that they take too much time to adjust to their circumstances and play accordingly. I don't know if that's a team directive as well. Given how good we used to play in the wet with our 2013-14 game plan, you'd think that the guys would be able to swap back to it and not persist with our dry weather footy style in the wet.

 

[FreoRicci]

We're bombing it long often and trying to hope Sandi or Clarke to nab a mark, which hardly ever works. . Tabs is leading into good areas, but it seems we have two or three players following up too. Today Hannath often got in the way of Pav and vice versa. Pav needs to be more of a full forward and allow Tabs to lead up the ground and sit back. Same with Clarke/Hannath, they just need to get out of the way and force their oppoent out of the contest. We hardly have one-on-ones which J. Riewoldt, Kennedy and Cloke always do.

 

[FreoRicci]

After the bye Mayne should come in for Tabs. That'd be a better set up.

It would but when it comes to finals, the better opponents just ignore Mayne. This happens in the GF too, Mayne wasn't big enough to demand Lake or Gibson so Pav was always dominated.
Ideal forward line:
Walters, Pav, Ballas
Croizer, Taberner, Mayne
or something like that. We need a forward line that stretches the height and pace. Sydney and Hawthorn do it in spades.
Having Pav and Mayne as the two key forwards doesn't get us going, neither does Clarke/Sandi as the resting forwards.

 

[free at last]

Having Fyfe starting deep after half time was pretty effective,but by doing it we lose the influence of Fyfes dominance where the game is won and lost.It'd be bloody handy if hilly didn't crap himself so easily around contests.

 

[Grape Bear]

Is that an issue of the over-all game plan or is that a forward line issue? Sumich?

 

[Scham]

I did lose my shit though when Hannath punched a mark out of Pav's hands in the 3rd though, that really didn't help his forward line case.

Yeah me too. Not only did he spoil Pav he tapped it straight into the arms of a GC player. Just dumb!

 

[Allikat]

Tabs has gone from the solution to the problem, and I think all our forward problems could be exaggerated because of it.

Our midfielders aren't kicking to him anymore, because he's spent weeks dropping everything. So of course Pav gets double-teamed because the ball's always going to go to him. Tabs doesn't even need a KPD on him, literally any defender will do, because if he's not by himself, the balls not going towards him.

And our mosquitos have stopped crumbing and seem to be trying to go for marks more often, or playing out of position. So many times Tabs has gone for a mark, dropped it, and there's no one there to crumb it.

The biggest thing I got out of today, wasn't just how we kicked at goal, but who actually kicked the goals: Fyfe 2, Suban, Hannath, Crozier, Neale
That's a whooooole lot of midfield there. I'm hoping Ross started Fyfe in FF after half time just to prove to our forwards that's not that ****ing hard to kick a goal

 

[Allikat]

Is that an issue of the over-all game plan or is that a forward line issue? Sumich?

I'm in the camp that maybe Sumich isn't the best forwards coach. Sure he was a star of the game, but he was unique, and kinda went about it weird. A more generic forwards coach could suit Freo better, because our forwards aren't the flashy top draft picks.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I'm in the camp that maybe Sumich isn't the best forwards coach. Sure he was a star of the game, but he was unique, and kinda went about it weird. A more generic forwards coach could suit Freo better, because our forwards aren't the flashy top draft picks.

Yeah it's something i've thought about as well. But it is hard to blame him I think when we really don't have the cattle up forward, and our game plan often means everyone is pressing up to halfway.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Early in the season when we were really on our mids kicked a lot of the goals, especially during those purple patches.

I don't blame Sumich, I think it needs to be a team thing, allow a bit more flair. It's not like netball where only certain players are allowed to take shots at goal.

 

[free at last]

Tabs has gone from the solution to the problem, and I think all our forward problems could be exaggerated because of it.

Our midfielders aren't kicking to him anymore, because he's spent weeks dropping everything. So of course Pav gets double-teamed because the ball's always going to go to him. Tabs doesn't even need a KPD on him, literally any defender will do, because if he's not by himself, the balls not going towards him.

And our mosquitos have stopped crumbing and seem to be trying to go for marks more often, or playing out of position. So many times Tabs has gone for a mark, dropped it, and there's no one there to crumb it.

The biggest thing I got out of today, wasn't just how we kicked at goal, but who actually kicked the goals: Fyfe 2, Suban, Hannath, Crozier, Neale
That's a whooooole lot of midfield there. I'm hoping Ross started Fyfe in FF after half time just to prove to our forwards that's not that ******* hard to kick a goal

Of the last three games we've played in,two have been really wet,not good for Tabs.In hindsight Tabs probably shouldn't have played today or against Adelaide.

 

[salim malik]

And here I was thinking its party time and we are 9-1 and its the half way bye and we are a clear leader on top of the ladder..I am confused after reading this thread,should I be elated and looking forward to the finals or crying in my beer wondering how the hell to go about slitting the wrists .

 

[Grape Bear]

And here I was thinking its party time and we are 9-1 and its the half way bye and we are a clear leader on top of the ladder..I am confused after reading this thread,should I be elated and looking forward to the finals or crying in my beer wondering how the hell to go about slitting the wrists .

It's not a wrist slitting thread at all. It's just trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with our forward line, our main area of weakness. Our success this year has been built on the strength of our midfield and midfield scoring, as well as our rock solid backline. Our forward line is still dysfunctional. It's hard to tell whether this is by design (not to show our hand early enough to be worked out) or whether we really have no plan B.

We're just speculating on how it would be possible to tweak it as we build into the pointy end of the season.