Forward Line

[Kapital city TIGER]

Assuming his fitness is up to scratch, I wouldn't be shocked if he played round one.

Doubt that his frame is capable of putting on much bulk - but he does need to get out of featherweight division to avoid being a pushover. He has shown some good signs -finding his way through traffic to clear, as a link runner, and looks a good fwd goal sneak prospect. Cant see him playing 22 straight, as there are a few blokes to get a run at both ends in his prospective spots, and he is yet to cement into a spot. 2010 : 10-15 games from Shane I reckon.

 

[RangaInTeal]

HF: Nason - Post - Rance
FF: Morton - Riewoldt - Nahas

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Doubt that his frame is capable of putting on much bulk - but he does need to get out of featherweight division to avoid being a pushover. He has shown some good signs -finding his way through traffic to clear, as a link runner, and looks a good fwd goal sneak prospect. Cant see him playing 22 straight, as there are a few blokes to get a run at both ends in his prospective spots, and he is yet to cement into a spot. 2010 : 10-15 games from Shane I reckon.

That JDC! quote was re Relton Roberts, not Edwards.

HF: Nason - Post - Rance
FF: Morton - Riewoldt - Nahas

Are you related to the lad or something? Its a big step up from SANFL reserves to a starting spot in an AFL team (albeit a shitty one like ours). And Rance on a half forward flank? Not the worst idea with his marking, speed and aggression (could run down the oppositions designated kicker) but certainly one from far left field!

 

[TO HOT TO HANDLE]

Nahas Post Morton
Reiwoldt Vickery Taylor
Astbury Griffiths Simmons Browne Nason Martin Deledio Tambling Goudis Relton Grimes.
I think our forward line is set, Pettifer is okay but the above are better.

 

[Accepted 04]

HF: Connors Post Cotchin
FF: Nahas Riewoldt Morton

With Martin, Vickery and Cousins rotating through.

 

[El Diablo]

where do i start?

No to Jake King in the FWD line, too many free kicks against and kicking is terrible, the only time he looks like kicking a goal is from outside 50 on the run, no to hislop unless his disposal improves dramatically over pre season.

i would also like to see more players in our fwd line as too many times last year the ball would come straight back out after a FWD 50 enter due to lack of numbers as a result of Wallace/Rawlings game plan of men behind ball in our back 50. There needs to be more crumbing goals this year and we need to give our deliverers of the ball more options so as to not be so predictable for the dbl teams.

i would like to see:
Riewoldt, Post, Cousins/ Rance/ or resting Mid(not Jackson or Foley though)

Nacho's (nahas), Big Fella eg. Vickery, Simmonds, Graham, & Morton.

As for a defensive FWD why not Rance he is very agile for his height has good endurance, strong over head and could be dangerous going the other way as well as being a defender for most of his career.

 

[coke_zero]

Nahas Post Morton
Reiwoldt Vickery Taylor

id be happy with this for round 1.

 

[TO HOT TO HANDLE]

King will play forward
Connors will play back
Rance will play back
Edwards will not play back
Astbury Dea and Webberly WILL PLAY BACK.
So get off Edwards back and realise we will have a new game plan, thank God you all are not coaching.
Hardwick has a simple gameplan and thinks outside the box so expect the unexpected.
Morton Post/Simmonds Nahas
Reiwoldt Vickery/Griffiths Taylor/Roberts/King/Gilligan
So we do have alot of options, Deledio, Tambling, Edwards, Collins, Connors(if required), Polak, Astbury, Cotchin, Martin and Cousins could rest in the forward line.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

King will play forward
Connors will play back
Rance will play back
Edwards will not play back
Astbury Dea and Webberly WILL PLAY BACK.
So get off Edwards back and realise we will have a new game plan, thank God you all are not coaching.
Hardwick has a simple gameplan and thinks outside the box so expect the unexpected.
Morton Post/Simmonds Nahas
Reiwoldt Vickery/Griffiths Taylor/Roberts/King/Gilligan
So we do have alot of options, Deledio, Tambling, Edwards, Collins, Connors(if required), Polak, Astbury, Cotchin, Martin and Cousins could rest in the forward line.

I dont expect BigFooty posters to be coaching!!!!

King - fwd = expected
Rance back = expected
Conners - back = you got me there- 1st suggestion Ive read of this prospect - might do him some good to play out of position- has he played back for Coburg in his years there?
Astbury, Dea & Webs - play back -(you mean in 2010 I guess? )- wld expect Webberly to get a run, and Farmer too. Wont bat an eye if Dea or Astbury get a run, might raise a brow if they manage more than 6 games between them tho - unless Thursty/Rance/McG/Moore are injured
Edwards - will be nice to have someone better suited to hbf (could this be Webberly? McMahon back in favour?) to give him another crack at the fwd line - there is going to be some stiff comp for small fwd spot in 2010 and beyond ! I dont hate him back as he was starting to play some good footy there, and yet thank Hardwick he isnt playing back anymore? - well I can see that it could be for the best - but we still need some pace back and someone to glue to goalsneaks

 

[coke_zero]

King will play forward
Connors will play back
Rance will play back
Edwards will not play back
Astbury Dea and Webberly WILL PLAY BACK.
So get off Edwards back and realise we will have a new game plan, thank God you all are not coaching.
Hardwick has a simple gameplan and thinks outside the box so expect the unexpected.
Morton Post/Simmonds Nahas
Reiwoldt Vickery/Griffiths Taylor/Roberts/King/Gilligan
So we do have alot of options, Deledio, Tambling, Edwards, Collins, Connors(if required), Polak, Astbury, Cotchin, Martin and Cousins could rest in the forward line.

is this what you have heard or what you think?

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

Just wondering whats everyones thoughts of our Forward line.We had 5 goal kickers who reached into double figures ,with one being delisted.

I just cant see how we are going to apply score board pressure with the current set up of forwards.

I actually rate morton/nahas/ and riewoldt but just cant see how they will beable to step up week in and out.

HF - Morton - Astbury/Griffiths - Taylor
FF - Nahas - Reiwoldt - Relton

* Post either forward or back depending on Hardwick thinkinkg.
* Vickery should rest in a forward pocket.
* Deledio, Martin, Dea, Collins, Hislop, Cotchin, Connors, Tambling, Edwards, Nason, Cousins, Gilligan etc. small/mid forward options
* Would rather see Gourdis & Grimes in the backline. Polak + Westhoff in the 2's.

 

[TheProwler]

HF - Morton - Astbury/Griffiths - Taylor
FF - Nahas - Reiwoldt - Relton

* Post either forward or back depending on Hardwick thinkinkg.
* Vickery should rest in a forward pocket.
* Deledio, Martin, Dea, Collins, Hislop, Cotchin, Connors, Tambling, Edwards, Nason, Cousins, Gilligan etc. small/mid forward options
* Would rather see Gourdis & Grimes in the backline. Polak + Westhoff in the 2's.

I know the Post thing has been flogged to death but looking at our backline depth of rookies etc one or two of them should be given a go at CHF/FF for the next few weeks. Sheeesh even Thursty should get a quarter up there to see what he can do. There has to be a better option than Polak or an 18 year old doesn't there?

 

[David3030]

We should be looking at this, IMO, only at the future, therefore, Astbury and Griffiths should be our CHF / FF, yes they will take time to develop and in Griffiths case will need to recover from injury.

This means Jack is our 3rd tall forward where he should dominate the oppositions 3rd best defender.

Our small forward options, with some to rotate through the midfield include Taylor, Nahas, Scooby, Bling, Titch, Cotch, Martin, Lids, etc.

 

[TheProwler]

We should be looking at this, IMO, only at the future, therefore, Astbury and Griffiths should be our CHF / FF, yes they will take time to develop and in Griffiths case will need to recover from injury.

This means Jack is our 3rd tall forward where he should dominate the oppositions 3rd best defender.

Our small forward options, with some to rotate through the midfield include Taylor, Nahas, Scooby, Bling, Titch, Cotch, Martin, Lids, etc.

Agree there mate I was referring to our setup for 2010.

No doubt Hardwick will continue to try and recruit depth for our forward line but we haven't seen Griff play yet and Astbury looked okay from one NAB cup loss. Too early for either yet but it's only going to get harder to recruit KPF in the next few drafts.

Just goes to show how poor our recruiting has been in recent years to get to the stage we are now at.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

We should be looking at this, IMO, only at the future, therefore, Astbury and Griffiths should be our CHF / FF, yes they will take time to develop and in Griffiths case will need to recover from injury.

This means Jack is our 3rd tall forward where he should dominate the oppositions 3rd best defender.

Our small forward options, with some to rotate through the midfield include Taylor, Nahas, Scooby, Bling, Titch, Cotch, Martin, Lids, etc.

Agree that Jack has to be the 3rd tall - a la Stevie Johnson, Chapman. Not sure that I see it as a given that he will dominate the opposition's 3rd tall defender - i mean he has the potential to do that but consistency is his challenge. I also think we have a host of players who could easily kick 15 goals or more per year from around 2011 onwards. I think the Geelong or Bulldogs structures where goals are shared around by 8-10 or players fed by dominant midfields is the model we should be building towards. I think that suits the personnel we currently have rather than the Hawthorn/Brisbane model of 2 goliaths each kicking 60 plus for the year.

 

[santa claws]

I know the Post thing has been flogged to death but looking at our backline depth of rookies etc one or two of them should be given a go at CHF/FF for the next few weeks. Sheeesh even Thursty should get a quarter up there to see what he can do. There has to be a better option than Polak or an 18 year old doesn't there?

theres no other option we are in fact on thin ice with all kpps.
whatif griffiths and astbury dont make the grade where does it leave us. stuck with polak and likely forced to take much needed size in post out of the backline.
we have little cover in our system for such an eventuality. i keep saying we have the numbers but dont have the quality.

what is the likely longevity of our kpps and which ones do we know we have to at sometime upgrade on.

for me likely upgrades are polak, mcguane, rance, gourdis, with both moore and thursfield underpressure to perform as well.

if i was in charge i would be taking the view that in time i would like to upgrade on these blokes so we can move forward and properly compete with the top 4 sides.

of course these blokes are needed for now and serve a purpose but imo looking long term we must be looking for better.

hopefully post astbury griffiths are better players but if they fail where are we at. basically stuck with the same players who oversaw bottom 4 finishes.

 

[Morro]

Agree that Jack has to be the 3rd tall - a la Stevie Johnson, Chapman. Not sure that I see it as a given that he will dominate the opposition's 3rd tall defender - i mean he has the potential to do that but consistency is his challenge. I also think we have a host of players who could easily kick 15 goals or more per year from around 2011 onwards. I think the Geelong or Bulldogs structures where goals are shared around by 8-10 or players fed by dominant midfields is the model we should be building towards. I think that suits the personnel we currently have rather than the Hawthorn/Brisbane model of 2 goliaths each kicking 60 plus for the year.

Agree here. interesting to note though, he has basically kicked 7 goals in his first 2 games, albeit NAB games.

If he could average 2-3 per game that would be an amazing result. It certainly isnt beyond him.

 

[_RT_]

theres no other option we are in fact on thin ice with all kpps.
whatif griffiths and astbury dont make the grade where does it leave us. stuck with polak and likely forced to take much needed size in post out of the backline.
we have little cover in our system for such an eventuality. i keep saying we have the numbers but dont have the quality.

what is the likely longevity of our kpps and which ones do we know we have to at sometime upgrade on.

for me likely upgrades are polak, mcguane, rance, gourdis, with both moore and thursfield underpressure to perform as well.

if i was in charge i would be taking the view that in time i would like to upgrade on these blokes so we can move forward and properly compete with the top 4 sides.

of course these blokes are needed for now and serve a purpose but imo looking long term we must be looking for better.

hopefully post astbury griffiths are better players but if they fail where are we at. basically stuck with the same players who oversaw bottom 4 finishes.

How do you know we don't have the quality? Our KPPs in Jack(46 games), McGuane(54), Post(7), Rance(15), Griffiths(0), Astbury(0), Gourdis(0), Westoff(0) & Polak(108) have a combined total of 230 games between them. Most of them are yet to pull on the jumper and you already appear to be writing them off and suggesting that they are going to fail. How about we give them some time before we write them off?

I didn't include Moore & Thursfield as KPPs as I don't believe either are KPD material.

 

[santa claws]

How do you know we don't have the quality? Our KPPs in Jack(46 games), McGuane(54), Post(7), Rance(15), Griffiths(0), Astbury(0), Gourdis(0), Westoff(0) & Polak(108) have a combined total of 230 games between them. Most of them are yet to pull on the jumper and you already appear to be writing them off and suggesting that they are going to fail. How about we give them some time before we write them off?

I didn't include Moore & Thursfield as KPPs as I don't believe either are KPD material.

did i write jack astbury and griffiths of anywhere in that post. i think you need to take a breath and read more closely.
i asked the simple question where are we at IF astbury and griffiths fail. i didnt include jack because i believe he will be at the least a decent player.
i ask the question because i believe we will in all likelyhood have to upgrade on rance gourdis mcguane polak and probably moore and thursfield.
you can be rest assured when astbury and griffiths show they have quality i will acknowledge it.

i think it a pertinent question it leads to all sorts of scenarios where are we if astbury and griffiths fail. long term its likely to only leave jack.

and please dont tell me any of mcguane moore thursfield polak in all likelyhood rance and gourdis because of skills are quality. rhey sit collectively somewhere between battler and average. i havent even mentioned grimes or westhoff but where they were taken suggests dont you think thats it more likely that they will be honest citizens rather than high quality players. sheesh if we get 50 servicable games out of westhoff we will have done well for pick 51 in the rookie draft.

 

[_RT_]

did i write jack astbury and griffiths of anywhere in that post. i think you need to take a breath and read more closely.
i asked the simple question where are we at IF astbury and griffiths fail. i didnt include jack because i believe he will be at the least a decent player.
i ask the question because i believe we will in all likelyhood have to upgrade on rance gourdis mcguane polak and probably moore and thursfield.
you can be rest assured when astbury and griffiths show they have quality i will acknowledge it.

i think it a pertinent question it leads to all sorts of scenarios where are we if astbury and griffiths fail. long term its likely to only leave jack.

and please dont tell me any of mcguane moore thursfield polak in all likelyhood rance and gourdis because of skills are quality. rhey sit collectively somewhere between battler and average. i havent even mentioned grimes or westhoff but where they were taken suggests dont you think thats it more likely that they will be honest citizens rather than high quality players. sheesh if we get 50 servicable games out of westhoff we will have done well for pick 51 in the rookie draft.

Perhaps you should take some of your own advice, as I never said you had written them off, just that it appears that you are before most of them have even pulled on the jumper.

Like I said lets wait and see what happens this year before we start panicking about what happens IF players fail. Some of those players that we've got concerns about might actually come on now that we've got a coach who seems to be intent on developing the kids rather than just sending them out there and hoping they do.

 

[TheProwler]

A kpf is only as good as the delivery to him. If we had Buddy for instance last year would we have been a better team? I doubt it.

We had a star forward that for a decade we couldn't kick it to. Now he is gone and we can see clearly how much of a gap he has left.

Griff, Astbury and co may well be stars of the future but many thought that of Hughes & Schulz which turned out...............well we now how it turned out.

We have little choice but to put as much development as we can into them and see how it goes until we recruit better options.

 

[santa claws]

A kpf is only as good as the delivery to him. If we had Buddy for instance last year would we have been a better team? I doubt it.

We had a star forward that for a decade we couldn't kick it to. Now he is gone and we can see clearly how much of a gap he has left.

Griff, Astbury and co may well be stars of the future but many thought that of Hughes & Schulz which turned out...............well we now how it turned out.

We have little choice but to put as much development as we can into them and see how it goes until we recruit better options.

true we should also be looking at a scenario of the kids we have drafted not making it and doing something abaout it. its called proper list management.
we have just recently been in the griffiths astbury situation.
we mut treat key positions as if all are no good so when the inevitable happens theres another in the system. we arent like most other clubs we dont currently have established quality kpps and rucks.

 

[TheProwler]

true we should also be looking at a scenario of the kids we have drafted not making it and doing something abaout it. its called proper list management.
we have just recently been in the griffiths astbury situation.
we mut treat key positions as if all are no good so when the inevitable happens theres another in the system. we arent like most other clubs we dont currently have established quality kpps and rucks.

I think you have mistaken the point I was meaning. We might not have much but there is no need to treat them as failures yet. Griff and Astbury could be the next two power forwards of the comp, however neither has played a game to date so let's give them a go first eh?

From what I have seen so far this year we have a forward line equal to Carlton and the Swans to name just two. We are not the only team looking for a key forward to emerge.

All is not lost with Jack, Mitch and Nahas to build some bigger KPF blokes around.

 

[santa claws]

I think you have mistaken the point I was meaning. We might not have much but there is no need to treat them as failures yet. Griff and Astbury could be the next two power forwards of the comp, however neither has played a game to date so let's give them a go first eh?

From what I have seen so far this year we have a forward line equal to Carlton and the Swans to name just two. We are not the only team looking for a key forward to emerge.

All is not lost with Jack, Mitch and Nahas to build some bigger KPF blokes around.

i think you miss my point. im not treating either of griffiths or astbury as failures.in fact i have high hopes for them. im looking at where we would be at if they do fail.
they could well go on to be great players for us yet again they might not.

i look at the list from the point of view that if these two do fail what back up is there so we arent waiting another 5 yrs for a tall to develop.all i see atm is a rookie in westhoff.

geez even if just one fails where does it leave us where are the replacments if things dont work out. and even if both turn out okay where is the depth and cover for injury.

we dont have one established kpf in our system not even polak is established. the fail rate with talls is 40 to 50% we are no different to any other club in this regard. well perhaps we are worse than other clubs in this regard given our recruiting over the yrs.
so even if 60% of the kpfs on our list make it we will still be short of talls for things like injury and development and continuity.and atm we have no idea of the quality we have invested in.

if we had 2 or 3 established talls in our system plus jack astbury and griffiths with one on the rookie list you would say we are in good shape but we dont have established talls and we will have our fair share of failures.

if astbury and griffiths fail and we leave it for another 2 or 3 yrs to cover for this possible scenario it will be a real dogs body all over again.

 

[TheProwler]

i think you miss my point. im not treating either of griffiths or astbury as failures.in fact i have high hopes for them. im looking at where we would be at if they do fail.
they could well go on to be great players for us yet again they might not.

i look at the list from the point of view that if these two do fail what back up is there so we arent waiting another 5 yrs for a tall to develop.all i see atm is a rookie in westhoff.

geez even if just one fails where does it leave us where are the replacments if things dont work out. and even if both turn out okay where is the depth and cover for injury.

we dont have one established kpf in our system not even polak is established. the fail rate with talls is 40 to 50% we are no different to any other club in this regard. well perhaps we are worse than other clubs in this regard given our recruiting over the yrs.
so even if 60% of the kpfs on our list make it we will still be short of talls for things like injury and development and continuity.and atm we have no idea of the quality we have invested in.

if we had 2 or 3 established talls in our system plus jack astbury and griffiths with one on the rookie list you would say we are in good shape but we dont have established talls and we will have our fair share of failures.

if astbury and griffiths fail and we leave it for another 2 or 3 yrs to cover for this possible scenario it will be a real dogs body all over again.

I know GC17 and WS are going to get a few draft concessions over the next two years but you do realise we will still get some picks too?

I would expect RFC to recruit each & every year with intentions of providing depth to the list, not just KPF but across all lines. Yes we have drafted very poorly in recent years under different coaches with the results now evident but that doesn't mean we will continue under Hardwicks watch.

Every club in the league is trying to recruit the next coleman medalist but it's not always that easy. Recruiting some potential is the first step, developing them is the next step. That's where we are at present with Griffiths & Astbury.