Forward Line

[Goldust]

Every club in the league is trying to recruit the next coleman medalist but it's not always that easy. Recruiting some potential is the first step, developing them is the next step. That's where we are at present with Griffiths & Astbury.

YOU are clearly a smart Prowler.
I think there might be some exciting times ahead with both Astbury and Griffiths .... to clarify, MIGHT .... but seriously, the way people have been pumping their tyres up on here as the next Franklin-Roughhead, Brown-Bradshaw, Carey-Longmire, or Brereton-Dunstall combination is outstanding.
FFS .... let the kids find their feet first, they can do without unnecssary expectations and hype.

Those who are pumping Griffiths up as the next big thing, do you realise the guy hasn't even taken to the field for us yet .... and is likely to be missing at least the first few rounds due to injury before a stint at Coburg awaits????

And Astbury, he's played all of one NAB Cup game, which he was serviceable among so many who were plain atrocious, and one other practice game.

The hype on here is unbelievable.

Our key forward woes are long from being solved!!!

 

[Strong and Bold]

YOU are clearly a smart Prowler.
I think there might be some exciting times ahead with both Astbury and Griffiths .... to clarify, MIGHT .... but seriously, the way people have been pumping their tyres up on here as the next Franklin-Roughhead, Brown-Bradshaw, Carey-Longmire, or Brereton-Dunstall combination is outstanding.
FFS .... let the kids find their feet first, they can do without unnecssary expectations and hype.

Those who are pumping Griffiths up as the next big thing, do you realise the guy hasn't even taken to the field for us yet .... and is likely to be missing at least the first few rounds due to injury before a stint at Coburg awaits????

And Astbury, he's played all of one NAB Cup game, which he was serviceable among so many who were plain atrocious, and one other practice game.

The hype on here is unbelievable.

Our key forward woes are long from being solved!!!

Pessimism.
Not cool.

 

[santa claws]

I know GC17 and WS are going to get a few draft concessions over the next two years but you do realise we will still get some picks too?

I would expect RFC to recruit each & every year with intentions of providing depth to the list, not just KPF but across all lines. Yes we have drafted very poorly in recent years under different coaches with the results now evident but that doesn't mean we will continue under Hardwicks watch.

Every club in the league is trying to recruit the next coleman medalist but it's not always that easy. Recruiting some potential is the first step, developing them is the next step. That's where we are at present with Griffiths & Astbury.

sheesh its like pulling teeth sometimes it just gets to hard. and i will leave it at that with one more thing to say..

coleman medalist yep everyone wants one. coleman medalist usually a FF. how many ff do we have in our system. how many do we have that we think has the neccesary quality to win a coleman. the last time i looked we had just one an 18 yr old whos just as likely to end up a ruckman. now thats what i call putting all your eggs in one basket. and boy are we going to be looking for awhile if he fails.

people will scoff at this because they only look at the right now but imo as of this minute we are about 6 talls shy of what we need.
now not next yr or two yrs time now.

anyway i give up its just to hard going over this again with people who just dont see or dont want to.

have you even asked yourself where are we at if griffiths and astbury fail.

it is a possibility. surely we should be coming from this angle rather than the angle that all of our talls will make it.
put simply until a player actually establishes himself in a position you dont have that position covered. we have potential kpp and rucks but if we are like every other side 40 to 50 percent of talls taken in recent times will fail.
you might pencil griffiths in now at ff but the reality is we dont have a ff until he actually makes it. until then its just as likely he may not make it. whos in the system just in case.anyone.

throw in simmonds at 31 and almost gone. polak who no one in his right mind could possibly suggest is the future.
poorly skilled players like rance gourdis graham and mcguane, players who are struggling in moore and thursfield, really late picks in westhoff a rookie and grimes psd and the true state of the tall list should be clear to all.it really will be shit if post astbury and griffiths ultimately fail.

 

[TheProwler]

sheesh its like pulling teeth sometimes it just gets to hard. and i will leave it at that with one more thing to say..

coleman medalist yep everyone wants one. coleman medalist usually a FF. how many ff do we have in our system. how many do we have that we think has the neccesary quality to win a coleman. the last time i looked we had just one an 18 yr old whos just as likely to end up a ruckman. now thats what i call putting all your eggs in one basket. and boy are we going to be looking for awhile if he fails.

people will scoff at this because they only look at the right now but imo as of this minute we are about 6 talls shy of what we need.
now not next yr or two yrs time now.

anyway i give up its just to hard going over this again with people who just dont see or dont want to.

have you even asked yourself where are we at if griffiths and astbury fail.

it is a possibility. surely we should be coming from this angle rather than the angle that all of our talls will make it.
put simply until a player actually establishes himself in a position you dont have that position covered. we have potential kpp and rucks but if we are like every other side 40 to 50 percent of talls taken in recent times will fail.
you might pencil griffiths in now at ff but the reality is we dont have a ff until he actually makes it. until then its just as likely he may not make it. whos in the system just in case.anyone.

throw in simmonds at 31 and almost gone. polak who no one in his right mind could possibly suggest is the future.
poorly skilled players like rance gourdis graham and mcguane, players who are struggling in moore and thursfield, really late picks in westhoff a rookie and grimes psd and the true state of the tall list should be clear to all.it really will be shit if post astbury and griffiths ultimately fail.

What do you suggest we do then Santa? Leap from the nearest tall building, build a time machine and go back a decade or try and develop the list we have to there potential whilst continuing to build this list over coming years?

Hardwick has already identified how weak our list was and he cut it hard last year as a result and will probably do so again this year. I guess he could have followed the past mistakes and taken the quick way out with recruiting Fev, but he didn't thank christ. He identified some kids with potential and is focused on going forward. Are you?

We are a number of years from having a competitive list. I agree Griff & Astbury might well fail and our depth is woeful but there is sweet FA we can do about it at present.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

At least Hardwick has undertaken the first step in that the list is being turned over.

Too many years the list management stagnated under Wallace.

Hardwick does not seem to be afraid to prune the list back.

I would expect another year of a high number of delistings at season end.

 

[TimeFor11]

I haven't read any of the thread but will throw my 2 cents in about the forward line. If there is one thing at Hawthorn that every single clubs envy's it is their forward line. It blossomed in 2008 and the forward coach behind that is now our head coach.

You can see with the suspected upgrade of Polak that Dimma is going to go about it in a similar way to the Hawks did in that year. Polak will be like our Tim Boyle, a genuine tall at 196cm that requires a genuine tall defender on him. This hopefully moves the oppositions best genuine tall onto Polak leaving Jack or Mitch with number 2 or 3. The beauty of this comes if and only if Polak can make the opposition pay when they take the risk of putting an undersized backman on him.

We will play 4 pretty much stay at home forwards and 2 high half forwards and we wont be pissing around with the football when we are running with it across the centre line. Players will kick long to one on ones and back our forwards with the kick to advantage to take the mark or at least create the ball to fall to Nahas/Hislop or other smalls rolling through there.

It is going to be an efficient forward line set up imo and if we can get the midfield breaking even at the least in clearances I reckon we will have a better season than many think. By this I mean I think 7+ wins is on the cards.

 

[Goldust]

Pessimism.
Not cool.

No, not pessimism, Strong and Bold ..... realism!!!!

You see, even your Jonathon Brown, Jason Dunstall, Wayne Carey, John Longmire, Buddy Franklin, Jarryd Roughhead didn't come in and dominate from day one. There were glimpses and a good performances among some average ones. All I am alluding to is that the hype from soem posters on here has the pair of Astbury and Griffiths coming in and dominating from the word go and all our key forward woes are gone.

Blind Freddy can see that Polak, Riewoldt and Morton will be our key forwards for the bulk, if not, all of this season. hardwick will be smart enough to ease Astbury in, while Griffiths has even pulled on the boots yet. Give the kids time and drop the hype and expectation and they might actually flourish.

I think the coach knows what he's doing!

 

[Yoda_]

At least Hardwick has undertaken the first step in that the list is being turned over.

Too many years the list management stagnated under Wallace.

Hardwick does not seem to be afraid to prune the list back.

I would expect another year of a high number of delistings at season end.

Who then?

 

[Spluff]

Who then?

Hislop, White, Simmonds, King, McMahon, Thomson, Connors, Tuck, Moore and Polo are all on their last chances - they'll have to really stake a claim this year or they're at risk of being delisted.

 

[Ferdinand Lewis]

i think you miss my point. im not treating either of griffiths or astbury as failures.in fact i have high hopes for them. im looking at where we would be at if they do fail.
they could well go on to be great players for us yet again they might not.

i look at the list from the point of view that if these two do fail what back up is there so we arent waiting another 5 yrs for a tall to develop.all i see atm is a rookie in westhoff.

geez even if just one fails where does it leave us where are the replacments if things dont work out. and even if both turn out okay where is the depth and cover for injury.

we dont have one established kpf in our system not even polak is established. the fail rate with talls is 40 to 50% we are no different to any other club in this regard. well perhaps we are worse than other clubs in this regard given our recruiting over the yrs.
so even if 60% of the kpfs on our list make it we will still be short of talls for things like injury and development and continuity.and atm we have no idea of the quality we have invested in.

if we had 2 or 3 established talls in our system plus jack astbury and griffiths with one on the rookie list you would say we are in good shape but we dont have established talls and we will have our fair share of failures.

if astbury and griffiths fail and we leave it for another 2 or 3 yrs to cover for this possible scenario it will be a real dogs body all over again.

What if Gumbleton spine breaks down again or Hurley smacks up some more Indians?

who is going to play key forward for Essendon next 15 years?

YOU are clearly a smart Prowler.

I think there might be some exciting times ahead with both Astbury and Griffiths .... to clarify, MIGHT .... but seriously, the way people have been pumping their tyres up on here as the next Franklin-Roughhead, Brown-Bradshaw, Carey-Longmire, or Brereton-Dunstall combination is outstanding.

FFS .... let the kids find their feet first, they can do without unnecssary expectations and hype.



Those who are pumping Griffiths up as the next big thing, do you realise the guy hasn't even taken to the field for us yet .... and is likely to be missing at least the first few rounds due to injury before a stint at Coburg awaits????



And Astbury, he's played all of one NAB Cup game, which he was serviceable among so many who were plain atrocious, and one other practice game.



The hype on here is unbelievable.



Our key forward woes are long from being solved!!!

Griffiths was rated by some as a potential top #5 pick was he not? before his injury.

At least he is a good size.

 

[santa claws]

At least Hardwick has undertaken the first step in that the list is being turned over.

Too many years the list management stagnated under Wallace.

Hardwick does not seem to be afraid to prune the list back.

I would expect another year of a high number of delistings at season end.

hmm not quite true hardwick did what every man and his dog could see the list was is crap and he pruned it.

his true worth will be if he has the vision and courage to prune into the glass half fulls. you lot know the ones who tease been around for awhile play the odd decent game but are basically flawed as far as strengths and weakness goes. if you look hard enough theres plenty there.
yep as far as im concerned the easy bit has been done now for reral wisdom to be shown.

people dont like to hear it but some favorites would be gone in the blink of an eye.
do we continue to give mediocre players 5 6 7 yr careers for little return or do we change the way we do things and maybe get some success.

 

[Glitch]

should have picked up big butcher good reports coming out of port he is flying at training

what!? At the expense of Martin?? U r a little overdue for an eye test... think they would find you to be short sighted!

We don't have a great structure yet, but do have a legitimate chance of an a grade forward line ...

Taylor - super gifted on both offense and defense
griffiths - a true focal point
Morton- crafty match winning potential
nahas - exciting sneak with defensive presence
riewoldt - an old fashioned real footy playr
post, vickery,cotchin, deledio rotating through

don't tell me that group lacks premiership potential. It is all there to be developed.

then there are unkowns like relton Roberts, gilligan

I am sure I have missed a few!

 

[coke_zero]

Hislop, White, Simmonds, King, McMahon, Thomson, Connors, Tuck, Moore and Polo are all on their last chances - they'll have to really stake a claim this year or they're at risk of being delisted.

Moore and Polo will not get delisted this year even if they have a bad one.

 

[Yoda_]

What if Gumbleton spine breaks down again or Hurley smacks up some more Indians?

who is going to play key forward for Essendon next 15 years?

Can I answer. PLEASE.. PLEASE =D

Michael Still, Jake Carlisle, Jay Neagle, Paddy Ryder, Jason Laycock even

depth and options is the key

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Can I answer. PLEASE.. PLEASE =D

Michael Still, ...who?

Jake Carlisle, the dreaded 'potential'

Jay Neagle, uuummmm..don't think so.

Paddy Ryder, what...take him out of the midfield...good idea??

Jason Laycock even ....even laughable!

depth and options is the key....but where is the key?

Please try to show common sense!

 

[_RT_]

Our starting forward line this year looks like it will be the following:

HF: Morton Riewoldt Polo
F: Nahas Polak Hislop

Of that list the only ones I can see as long term options are Morton Riewoldt & Nahas, yet I get the feeling that this forward line will be in place for at least the first half of the season. By seasons end I'd much rather see a forward line of:

HF: Reiwoldt Astbury Morton
F: Nahas Griffiths Roberts/Taylor
Bench: Taylor/Roberts

That is where our future lies IMO. I don't expect Griffiths Astbury Roberts & Taylor to come in and dominate from debut, but the sooner they are playing alongside Jack Mitch and Nahas the better.

 

[coke_zero]

HF: Reiwoldt Astbury Morton
F: Nahas Griffiths Roberts/Taylor
Bench: Taylor/Roberts

aslong as jack and mitch can take some presure off Astbury and Griffiths then they should go alright.

 

[TheProwler]

Our starting forward line this year looks like it will be the following:

HF: Morton Riewoldt Polo
F: Nahas Polak Hislop

Of that list the only ones I can see as long term options are Morton Riewoldt & Nahas, yet I get the feeling that this forward line will be in place for at least the first half of the season. By seasons end I'd much rather see a forward line of:

HF: Reiwoldt Astbury Morton
F: Nahas Griffiths Roberts/Taylor
Bench: Taylor/Roberts

That is where our future lies IMO. I don't expect Griffiths Astbury Roberts & Taylor to come in and dominate from debut, but the sooner they are playing alongside Jack Mitch and Nahas the better.

Looking at your early season line up is quite depressing really.

The new kids are our best hope for the future, get them on the park as soon as they are ready.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

Looking at your early season line up is quite depressing really.

The new kids are our best hope for the future, get them on the park as soon as they are ready.

have to expect Griffiths/Astbury to take a while. at least they are genuinely tall. THey are on the list so great to get them in for a few games asap to give them a taste, (especially as we are considering, what - elevating Polly to play KPF) but expect them to show something thru Coburg 1st year.

Jack will be having a holiday as the 3rd tall, hope he doesnt get frustrated noone kicks it to him anymore!

Like to see Edwards v Nahas for crumbing fwd role, but actually, what we need is someone BETTER. Really like to have Taylor / Roberts break out as a dangerous, unpredictable fwd to give our fwd line some respect. The problem with resting mids on the fwd flank is that they are not necessarily creating fwd opeinings I guess. Still hoping Goo gets elevated and swings back to our sticks in a year or 2 after he has sorted out his kicking:

Reiwaldt Gourdis Morton
Nahas/Roberts Griffith/Astbury Taylor

 

[TheProwler]

have to expect Griffiths/Astbury to take a while. at least they are genuinely tall. THey are on the list so great to get them in for a few games asap to give them a taste, (especially as we are considering, what - elevating Polly to play KPF) but expect them to show something thru Coburg 1st year.

Jack will be having a holiday as the 3rd tall, hope he doesnt get frustrated noone kicks it to him anymore!

Like to see Edwards v Nahas for crumbing fwd role, but actually, what we need is someone BETTER. Really like to have Taylor / Roberts break out as a dangerous, unpredictable fwd to give our fwd line some respect. The problem with resting mids on the fwd flank is that they are not necessarily creating fwd opeinings I guess. Still hoping Goo gets elevated and swings back to our sticks in a year or 2 after he has sorted out his kicking:

Reiwaldt Gourdis Morton
Nahas/Roberts Griffith/Astbury Taylor

Griffiths and even Astbury should play more AFL than VFL games this year. It's not like they are vying for a spot with our current full forward, Polak. Sheesh he makes O'Halphin look good as a key forward.

I agree with the two newbie smalls in the forward line but what we need more is consistent efforts over four quarters rather than "X" factor spurts which is what we are likely to get from them. A bonus from them I guess would allow Nahas to move a little further up the ground.

And yeah I hope Jack doesn't get the sooks in a few years when he has to work harder to get some pill

 

[Ruanaidh]

Word is that there is something special brewing at the Tigers den. Get Ben in your dreamteam kiddies and buckle up for the ride.....and Montana, you know my predictions are never wrong

 

[Toadvine]

Word is that there is something special brewing at the Tigers den. Get Ben in your dreamteam kiddies and buckle up for the ride.....and Montana, you know my predictions are never wrong

Which Ben? Griffiths? Nason?

 

[coke_zero]

Which Ben? Griffiths? Nason?

Cousins im guessing

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

Cousins im guessing

you can afford one, by having the others, who are bargains!

3x Bens

 

[Ruanaidh]

Which Ben? Griffiths? Nason?

Sorry for the late reply Elliot...its Griffiths....but the other 2 Bens are not too shabby either.