Fox Footy AFL Round Table on WCE

[AsterixTheGaul]

Last night on Fox Footy King had us with the second best list just marginally behind the Hawks. He had us with 6 elite and 9 above average players. These were stats driven and not opinion.

6 Elite: (in top 5% in their position in last 2 years)
NicNat
McGovern
Shuey
Hurn
Priddis
LeCras

9 Above Average: (last 2 years and not defined on TV)
They did not specify other.
Thoughts on our 9 above average:

Kennedy (2015 Coleman winner and stated by King as on the cusp of elite despite winning)
Gaff (2015 All Australian and must be another on the cusp)
Emac (not based on 2015 but in AA squad 2014)
Yeo (Dark Sharks to own this bit)
Jetta (probably more based on 2013/2014)
Darling (again more based on 2013/14)
Masten (not my favourite player but others tend to think so based on endurance)
Wellingham (definitely for 2015 but prior 2 years no)
Redden (showed enough on Sunday to think he will be but not a guaranteed pick)
Ellis (based on sentiment and early form, perhaps overreaching here)
Shepherd (had a breakout year in 2015 and looked like a 1st round draft pick)

Thought?

 

[nameless]

Video Link?

Someone sent last year's and it actually wasn't terrible.

edit: It looks like King has just read through the AFL Prospectus and passed it off as his own...

 

[iLikeIt]

Last night on Fox Footy King had us with the second best list just marginally behind the Hawks. He had us with 6 elite and 9 above average players. These were stats driven and not opinion.

6 Elite: (in top 5% in their position in last 2 years)
NicNat
McGovern
Shuey
Hurn
Priddis
LeCras

9 Above Average: (last 2 years and not defined on TV)
They did not specify other.
Thoughts on our 9 above average:

Kennedy (2015 Coleman winner and stated by King as on the cusp of elite despite winning)
Gaff (2015 All Australian and must be another on the cusp)
Emac (not based on 2015 but in AA squad 2014)
Yeo (Dark Sharks to own this bit)
Jetta (probably more based on 2013/2014)
Darling (again more based on 2013/14)
Masten (not my favourite player but others tend to think so based on endurance)
Wellingham (definitely for 2015 but prior 2 years no)
Redden (showed enough on Sunday to think he will be but not a guaranteed pick)
Ellis (based on sentiment and early form, perhaps overreaching here)
Shepherd (had a breakout year in 2015 and looked like a 1st round draft pick)

Thought?

This is not from FoxFooty or King - this is the Champion Data ratings. 6 elite, 9 above average, 8 average, 6 below average, 1 poor.

Interestingly the 1 poor is Nelson and I think we're all pretty confident he'll improve on that rating this year.

 

[FatPizza]

This is not from FoxFooty or King - this is the Champion Data ratings. 6 elite, 9 above average, 8 average, 6 below average, 1 poor.

Interestingly the 1 poor is Nelson and I think we're all pretty confident he'll improve on that rating this year.

He improved on that last year.

 

[WCEbrody]

Video Link?

14:35

 

[Sw3Et]

How is JK not in the top 5% forwards but Lecca is?

 

[Ochre]

How is JK not in the top 5% forwards but Lecca is?

Done on champion data points, lecca gets more touches - > more points

 

[bombard]

Reliably, Dermot talks as if we didn't beat hawthorn at all last year. Bloke is either lazy, idiotic, or both.

 

[avishka5]

i think bruce has some stiff competition from derm.

Mcgovern debate is a a good one. I like the idea of him drifting through the midfield and wing as he does have a good kick and makes good decisions under pressure but the big question is whether he has the engine to do so. I am also a firm believer of gov being an intercept mark but i was surprised that emac was top 5 for intercept marks in 2014. With schofield showing that he can now match it with the big boys of the comp, we could have emac playing as an intercept marks and put gov in the forward line and really stretch the opposition backline. That would be hell for the opposition defence marking up on him and jk and jack will have a day out manning the third tall. Im trying not to get too excited theidea of jk,jd and gov forward line does send shivers down my back (in a good way).

 

[ziad]

Reliably, Dermot talks as if we didn't beat hawthorn at all last year. Bloke is either lazy, idiotic, or both.

both plus an absolute******

Cue: woosha ironing him out and is the chip on his shoulder

 

[The Falcon Strike]

i think bruce has some stiff competition from derm.

Mcgovern debate is a a good one. I like the idea of him drifting through the midfield and wing as he does have a good kick and makes good decisions under pressure but the big question is whether he has the engine to do so. I am also a firm believer of gov being an intercept mark but i was surprised that emac was top 5 for intercept marks in 2014. With schofield showing that he can now match it with the big boys of the comp, we could have emac playing as an intercept marks and put gov in the forward line and really stretch the opposition backline. That would be hell for the opposition defence marking up on him and jk and jack will have a day out manning the third tall. Im trying not to get too excited theidea of jk,jd and gov forward line does send shivers down my back (in a good way).

Emac did that still being a one on one defender

IMO we still play him on the best key forward. He will still intercept and do his thing.

Clubs rarely have (or play) two dominant key forwards - Schoey will comfortably be able to handle the 2nd forward.

 

[Quinz]

How is JK not in the top 5% forwards but Lecca is?

Done on champion data points, lecca gets more touches - > more points

I think Champion Data also separate Key Forwards with General Forwards, don't they? Either way I think they only had three key forwards listed as elite- Buddy, Roughead and Hawkins.

 

[avishka5]

Emac did that still being a one on one defender

IMO we still play him on the best key forward. He will still intercept and do his thing.

Clubs rarely have (or play) two dominant key forwards - Schoey will comfortably be able to handle the 2nd forward.

yeah but even emac can handle the best forward. only team i cant see this working on is against the swans, crows and maybe suns (if it is a situation like last season). Any way it will take emac a while till he can comfortably nullify the best forward.

 

[avishka5]

I think Champion Data also separate Key Forwards with General Forwards, don't they? Either way I think they only had three key forwards listed as elite- Buddy, Roughead and Hawkins.

how is hawkins elite?

 

[Keys]

Ok, Dermot aside, that was a pretty good listen for the most part and een the core of Dermots point that the web got found out against the Hawks on the MCG was somewhat valid.

In a nutshell we have a great backline, great forwardline but a less than elite midfield group. Also the age and experience profile of our list is right were you'd want it to be for a real tilt at the flag. We are a deadset challenger but as a collective our midfield needs to improve if we are not only to maintain our position from 2015 but to go one better.

 

[Ishmael_]

I honestly think we have the best forward line and best back-line in the league, personnel and structure.

Secondly, our midfield will be regarded as elite come the end of the year. The mix is that good this year. Priddis has turned into a legitimate weapon, some of his handballs and delivery in NAB3 were brilliant and now, he kicks goals. Nat is a freak and easily the most dominant ruckman from centre square. He doubles as a beast of a midfielder.

Shuey, Sheed, Gaff, Jetta, Yeo, Duggan, Masten, Redden, Hutchings with a Darling, Hurn, whomever running through.

I like most have been reticent to talk us up, but I cannot think of a more balanced or dangerous midfield. Perhaps Freo's, but our depth is superior.

 

[iLikeIt]

how is hawkins elite?

Hawkins would have to be softest key forward (possibly player) in the game. Can't stand his whinging and whining every time he loses a one-on-one. Think it is wishful thinking if they think he is elite and JK isn't.

On reflection maybe what they presented isn't the Champion Data results from last season but a projection of what they think it will be (using the 2015 data as a basis).

 

[Wadsworth]

both plus an absolute******

Cue: woosha ironing him out and is chip own shoulder

If I can show off for one moment, about 15 years ago I was in Bali with a couple of mates and we saw Dermott there. We were pissed as farts and kept asking him if it hurt when Woosha shirtfronted him and what he remembered about it etc. In hindsight, I'm sure we were a bunch of little wise-guy dickheads and probably lucky that he didn't flatten us. But given how much of a Flog Dermott turned out to be, it is a pretty proud moment that we absolutely took the piss out of Dermie.

 

[frenchconnection]

how is hawkins elite?

You took the words out if my mouth as was thinking exactly the same thing!​

 

[Chris_6678]

 

[avishka5]

View attachment 225152

He's in elite condition there.

 

[W.C. Fry]

Yeah I watched it last night. Key points for me were -

They have rated us having the 10th hardest draw. Not sure how they work that out but its good if really true.

Elite forward line, elite backline but question on midfield depth. Adding 2 guns in Redden and Jetta. Opposition used to only really worry about Gaff, Shuey. Just more options and a better spread.

Emac coming back and how that will change the web? Most thought it wont change much, some tinkering here and there. But Emac being able to lock down the gorilla forward can only help. Will we / can we play a more man on man game, especially changing style in game if things arnt working. Brought up Hawks picking it apart on wider MCG.

We have added to and improved our list. Hawks for first time in ages have not been able to bring in anyone to improve theirs.

Talking about the best spot for Gov. I was more in the King camp here - no real set spot just go where he is needed. Not sure he would work on the wing as suggested though.

Whole thing was a good watch, will watch the rest for sure.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Ok, Dermot aside, that was a pretty good listen for the most part and een the core of Dermots point that the web got found out against the Hawks on the MCG was somewhat valid.

In a nutshell we have a great backline, great forwardline but a less than elite midfield group. Also the age and experience profile of our list is right were you'd want it to be for a real tilt at the flag. We are a deadset challenger but as a collective our midfield needs to improve if we are not only to maintain our position from 2015 but to go one better.

Personally I think that is tripe - we had a great win against a hot side at the G

What got found out was our poor kicking on the biggest stage. We turned the ball over uncharacteristically in the middle of the ground - at which point our defenders had run off to create options - leaving our d50 completely exposed.

The hawks didn't work out the web, they didn't have to - we gifted them the game on a platter.

 

[Wadsworth]

Yeah I watched it last night. Key points for me were -

They have rated us having the 10th hardest draw. Not sure how they work that out but its good if really true.

Elite forward line, elite backline but question on midfield depth. Adding 2 guns in Redden and Jetta. Opposition used to only really worry about Gaff, Shuey. Just more options and a better spread.

Emac coming back and how that will change the web? Most thought it wont change much, some tinkering here and there. But Emac being able to lock down the gorilla forward can only help. Will we / can we play a more man on man game, especially changing style in game if things arnt working. Brought up Hawks picking it apart on wider MCG.

We have added to and improved our list. Hawks for first time in ages have not been able to bring in anyone to improve theirs.

Talking about the best spot for Gov. I was more in the King camp here - no real set spot just go where he is needed. Not sure he would work on the wing as suggested though.

Whole thing was a good watch, will watch the rest for sure.

Good summary. Cheers.

There's been a few mentions about the Hawks picking apart the web on GF day. I haven't been back to re-watch the GF, but my impression on the day was that we just sh!t the bed a bit. Too fumbly, too many turnovers, Hawks took their chances, we didn't take ours. I didn't think it was a structural issue - we were just a bit awestruck and not ready for the spotlight.

Any opinions on whether the web was really exposed on GF day? It has always been exposed to quick rebound turnover footy (as almost any defensive setup is), and I thought we just committed too many turnovers. I'd be interested in any thoughts on this.

 

[Wadsworth]

Personally I think that is tripe - we had a great win against a hot side at the G

What got found out was our poor kicking on the biggest stage. We turned the ball over uncharacteristically in the middle of the ground - at which point our defenders had run off to create options - leaving our d50 completely exposed.

The hawks didn't work out the web, they didn't have to - we gifted them the game on a platter.

Thanks for answering my question a couple of minutes before I posted it. Cheers