France wins contract to build Submarines

[CakeEater]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...-new-submarine-fleet-as-50bn-contract-awarded

Interesting, puts to bed the early rumours about Japan winning the contract.

Thoughts?

 

[Dry Rot]

Pity they picked the wrong sub.

 

[Juddism]

Pity it won't come online for nearly two decades..$20bn to build. Anyone say blow-out.

 

[madmug]

Pity it won't come online for nearly two decades..$20bn to build. Anyone say blow-out.

All military equipment tbat is cutting edge & has long lead times & include technology updates as the build progresses, will have cost overuns.
As long as they monitor such things.
Anyway l believe the subs are a needed asset. Im more pissed off with the F35 pidgeons which l believe will prove to be a disaster both financially & strategically. Anyhoo.

 

[GuruJane]

the early rumours were political media driven Abbotthate beatup.
decision was always going to be made by competitive tender Abbott govt set up.

As for the French winning it - well do nothing Turnbull has put off build until the 2030 and he won't be around by then to takes the bows or face the music.
The best joke I saw was "Do these subs come with white flags attached.?'
Answer"" All French military equipment has white flags attached.

What moi doesn't get it get is - why aren't at least half of them nuclear like the French subs at home are, to demonstrate our commitment to emission reduction - and also that we have finally reached adulthood?

 

[Hawk Dork]

Pity subs are a useless waste of tax payers money with drones being able to see where they are.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/ju...oomed-by-drones-of-the-future-says-new-report

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/have-lethal-drones-made-submarines-obsolete-15412

 

[Power Raid]

great for SA but s**t for defence and anyone who serves on them

 

[Old_Man_James]

I wonder what the range of conventional subs are? Seems one area where nuclear is a massive advantage. To be able to go for years without refueling. Just limited by crew supplies. Seems that in a conflict having to return to friendly ports all the time to refuel seems a massive strategic disadvantage

 

[telsor]

The best joke I saw was "Do these subs come with white flags attached.?'
Answer"" All French military equipment has white flags attached.

I'm told the French are already preparing to surrender the contract to the Germans.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

The aversion to Nuclear subs continues to be a little bit odd.

Anyway, I suppose Christopher and Company will be happy the taxpayer can keep Adelaide's shipyards humming, even if no-one else seems to want to.

 

[RUNVS]

The aversion to Nuclear subs continues to be a little bit odd.

Anyway, I suppose Christopher and Company will be happy the taxpayer can keep Adelaide's shipyards humming, even if no-one else seems to want to.

Nuclear subs are crap though. Diesel submarines are far superior as they are a lot quieter, and as a result it is much easier to sneak up on an enemy vessel without being detected.

 

[Power Raid]

I wonder what the range of conventional subs are? Seems one area where nuclear is a massive advantage. To be able to go for years without refueling. Just limited by crew supplies. Seems that in a conflict having to return to friendly ports all the time to refuel seems a massive strategic disadvantage

spot on, we should have investigated nuclear as an option

given our massive coastline, distances to strategic areas, comfort for the crew and speed would probably lean toward a nuclear fleet

 

[Power Raid]

Nuclear subs are crap though. Diesel submarines are far superior as they are a lot quieter, and as a result it is much easier to sneak up on an enemy vessel without being detected.

in shallow water sure

but a blue water navy needs nuclear subs

 

[Admiral Byng]

So these are scaled-down conventional versions of nuclear subs, without any proof of range capability we require? Not currently in operation in any other country.

We've gone to the other extreme then. the Collins were a small coastal sub scaled up into a bigger blue-water boat. Now we're starting with a big boat and trying to scale it down. Could be just another Collins class in the making then, same problems but approached from the other side.

I'm not confident.

 

[telsor]

So these are scaled-down conventional versions of nuclear subs, without any proof of range capability we require? Not currently in operation in any other country.

We've gone to the other extreme then. the Collins were a small coastal sub scaled up into a bigger blue-water boat. Now we're starting with a big boat and trying to scale it down. Could be just another Collins class in the making then, same problems but approached from the other side.

I'm not confident.

We had to go one way or the other, because nobody makes subs with the specs we require and designing a completely new sub from scratch would be overkill.

Anyone wanting the kind of range we require goes for nukes.

For good or ill though, we genuinely do require that kind of range, but lack any kind of nuclear infrastructure, so would have trouble maintaining and operating the subs without a great deal of support from other countries.

 

[telsor]

spot on, we should have investigated nuclear as an option

given our massive coastline, distances to strategic areas, comfort for the crew and speed would probably lean toward a nuclear fleet

To do that would either require supporting the subs overseas whenever something to do with the power plant was required, or creating a substantive nuclear industry here. Both are, at the very least, politically awkward choices.

 

[Admiral Byng]

We had to go one way or the other, because nobody makes subs with the specs we require and designing a completely new sub from scratch would be overkill.

Anyone wanting the kind of range we require goes for nukes.

For good or ill though, we genuinely do require that kind of range, but lack any kind of nuclear infrastructure, so would have trouble maintaining and operating the subs without a great deal of support from other countries.

I'd rather we just bit the bullet and went for nukes. With help from the US or UK. Perhaps we could build some infrastructure and eventually extend that to peaceful purposes like power generation.

 

[The_Reaper]

Did I read correctly that they're apparently going to be made using Australian steel?

Are we even capable of producing the sort of steel that is necessary?

 

[telsor]

I'd rather we just bit the bullet and went for nukes. With help from the US or UK. Perhaps we could build some infrastructure and eventually extend that to peaceful purposes like power generation.

2 choices..

1) Whenever the subs power plants need maintenance, they need to cruise half way around the world to get help from our friends/allies/commercial partners. Political scare campaigns would follow, probably leading to a lost election and the contract cancelled.

2) We somehow try to convince the electorate that several nuclear power stations is a good idea, in the face of what would doubtless be an almighty fear campaign from the greens (and doubtless others), and keep trying even after getting wiped out in the first few of elections where this is raised, perhaps getting past it if/when people get educated about it enough to accept the idea (if the party suggesting it isn't wiped out first).

I highly doubt there is a single politician in any party who would be prepared to put the national interest that far ahead of their political interests.

 

[telsor]

Did I read correctly that they're apparently going to be made using Australian steel?

Are we even capable of producing the sort of steel that is necessary?

Politics requires it...It'll probably be the most expensive steel ever made.

 

[Admiral Byng]

2 choices..

1) Whenever the subs power plants need maintenance, they need to cruise half way around the world to get help from our friends/allies/commercial partners. Political scare campaigns would follow, probably leading to a lost election and the contract cancelled.

2) We somehow try to convince the electorate that several nuclear power stations is a good idea, in the face of what would doubtless be an almighty fear campaign from the greens (and doubtless others), and keep trying even after getting wiped out in the first few of elections where this is raised, perhaps getting past it if/when people get educated about it enough to accept the idea (if the party suggesting it isn't wiped out first).

I highly doubt there is a single politician in any party who would be prepared to put the national interest that far ahead of their political interests.

yeah I know, I know... it will never happen.

Should we be more realistic about our place in the world, rather than chasing after something that doesn't exist?

(I'm off to bed now so won't respond till tomorrow)

 

[Bollox]

Finally. Kicked down the road by so many for so long.
Great news for SA...and Aust.
TheissenKrupp Aust took out full page newspaper ads here last Saturday. I saw that and wondered if there was a leak.

Like all good news these days though...this will get a very short media attention span.
A decade or more in the pipeline...with the footy kicked out to an empty wing by countless pollies over the years.

Would prefer nuclear, but from the little I understand I gather they will be adaptable if the socio-political mood for nuclear changes in the future.

Huge.

 

[Gough]

First sign of Turnbull putting his own stamp on things, I've no doubt Abbott would have gone with Japan. Their response to the decision suggests that this was the case.

 

[Power Raid]

Finally. Kicked down the road by so many for so long.
Great news for SA...and Aust.
TheissenKrupp Aust took out full page newspaper ads here last Saturday. I saw that and wondered if there was a leak.

Like all good news these days though...this will get a very short media attention span.
A decade or more in the pipeline...with the footy kicked out to an empty wing by countless pollies over the years.

Would prefer nuclear, but from the little I understand I gather they will be adaptable if the socio-political mood for nuclear changes in the future.

Huge.

no doubt it will stimulate the economy but I do question the purpose of building something that does suit purpose.

 

[Hawk Dork]

Would we have been better off building some proper infrastructure like a real NBN or a fast rail connection or a few solar thermal power plants and spend a little bit more being nice to our neighbours so we wont need subs.