Frawley backpedalling over draft picks

[Rodgerramjet]

seems plenty of other knuckleheads in the media seem to think he was half decent as well. surely some of these football 'experts' are on autocue when talking about the tigers, especially when frawley was there, because they seem to have nothing but praise for him and his 'work' there.

Of course they do, none of them ever wanted Richmond to get up off the ground, and spud was driving us into the ground, mate they loved what he was doing to us, now there all brown tongueing his backside.

 

[Rodgerramjet]

Alstey, you used to barrack for Melbourne, but really longed to support the Tiges. Now you're Adelaide. You're either extremely disloyal or ****ed in the head.

PS: No spelling mistakes

Well i'd say he's both

 

[Rodgerramjet]

Miller was not even at the club ...LMAOO

Frawley is to Punt rd... as Hitler , was to Germany

Frawley should be put on trial in Geneva for "Crimes against football"

Yes and we were his jews.

 

[Bruman]

You have no idea at all what you are talking about. What are the names of the gun players that the Western Bulldogs recuited 6 years ago? And what the hell does the quote in bold mean?

Robert Murphy
Daniel GIA
Lindsay Gilbee
Mitch Hahn
Ryan Hargrave
Nathan Eagleton
Jordan McMahon
Daniel Cross
Brian Harris
Will Minson

All pickd up between 8 and 6 years ago.. Handy players. The folowing year they pick up Ray, Cooney and co and struggle for a while. Now they v compeditive. Give it time and Richmond'll be the same. Top 4 every year stuff. Danny just set you back 6 years. In the same time frame he recruited..

Clay Simpson
Fiora
Ezra Poyas
Scott Homewood (Gilbee taken 4 picks after him..)
Andrew Mills
Clinton King
Lion Cameron
Pettifer
Hyde
Sziller
ROdan
Houlahan
Paul Hudson

 

[santa claws]

You cannot blame it all on Miller.

1. Our first pick was 33
2. Frawley has the final say on everything
3. Frawley had no direction for the future so miller was drafting all over the place.
4. He manged to get hyde at 68 who has been servicable.

Frawley thought he had a premiership side at the end of 01 (we made the prelim) and therefore topped up. Miller did as he was instructed to do.

miller was responsible for drafting at the end of 02 not 01.at the end of 02 a blind man and his seeing eye dog could have told you the list was shiite.
1 pick 33 was our first david rodan poor pick as it turned out it was our first pick because frawley traded away our first pick on an ageing ruckman.

2 i would say that was correct up to 02.miller was bought in to fix the list.

3 frawley had no direction for the future but neither did miller. his first 2 drafts he traded away early picks the exact opposite of what we needed to do .it showed a lack of understanding of where the list is at and ignored the future. every draft bar 04 miller has attempted the big trade involving our early picks.

4 he didnt draft hyde that was a frawley blunder. they took him at 40 2000 delisted him and picked him up with 68 in 01.

to say miller was under instructions flys in the face of everything that happened.it was millers job to recognise list deficiencies and do something about it. he ran the whole box and dice and he failed miserably.
miller may be good at getting a trade done but he has no idea when it comes to building for the long term.
if miller had done his job properly wallace would have been starting from yr 3 instead of yr 7.

 

[ata40]

Robert Murphy
Daniel GIA
Lindsay Gilbee
Mitch Hahn
Ryan Hargrave
Nathan Eagleton
Jordan McMahon
Daniel Cross
Brian Harris
Will Minson

All pickd up between 8 and 6 years ago.. Handy players. The folowing year they pick up Ray, Cooney and co and struggle for a while. Now they v compeditive. Give it time and Richmond'll be the same. Top 4 every year stuff. Danny just set you back 6 years. In the same time frame he recruited..

Clay Simpson
Fiora
Ezra Poyas
Scott Homewood (Gilbee taken 4 picks after him..)
Andrew Mills
Clinton King
Lion Cameron
Pettifer
Hyde
Sziller
ROdan
Houlahan
Paul Hudson

Man, this is so damming!

 

[tigerdan]

miller was responsible for drafting at the end of 02 not 01.at the end of 02 a blind man and his seeing eye dog could have told you the list was shiite.
1 pick 33 was our first david rodan poor pick as it turned out it was our first pick because frawley traded away our first pick on an ageing ruckman.

2 i would say that was correct up to 02.miller was bought in to fix the list.

3 frawley had no direction for the future but neither did miller. his first 2 drafts he traded away early picks the exact opposite of what we needed to do .it showed a lack of understanding of where the list is at and ignored the future. every draft bar 04 miller has attempted the big trade involving our early picks.

4 he didnt draft hyde that was a frawley blunder. they took him at 40 2000 delisted him and picked him up with 68 in 01.

to say miller was under instructions flys in the face of everything that happened.it was millers job to recognise list deficiencies and do something about it. he ran the whole box and dice and he failed miserably.
miller may be good at getting a trade done but he has no idea when it comes to building for the long term.
if miller had done his job properly wallace would have been starting from yr 3 instead of yr 7.

But the club was haemorraging money at the time. Going for kids 100% would have led to even worse immediate on field performances, which would have led to even less money being available in the short term. We had to draft Johnson (at the time) because we needed good players!

This was the era when we pissed off Collingwood by reneging on the gate sharing agreement, and the possum **** incident occurred.

If anything, the person who should not be forgotten is Clinton 'Bomber' Casey - he almost sent us broke. But that is for another thread.

 

[1980]

But the club was haemorraging money at the time. Going for kids 100% would have led to even worse immediate on field performances, which would have led to even less money being available in the short term. We had to draft Johnson (at the time) because we needed good players!

This was the era when we pissed off Collingwood by reneging on the gate sharing agreement, and the possum **** incident occurred.

If anything, the person who should not be forgotten is Clinton 'Bomber' Casey - he almost sent us broke. But that is for another thread.

Not sure about this TD

If we were haemorraging money, how did we get Brown?

More likely we were haemorraging money because of the players we were drafting, not before it.

Casey brought in Miller to do the footy side of things. You can blame him for a lot of things, but picking players is not one of them

 

[tigerdan]

Not sure about this TD

If we were haemorraging money, how did we get Brown?

More likely we were haemorraging money because of the players we were drafting, not before it.

Casey brought in Miller to do the footy side of things. You can blame him for a lot of things, but picking players is not one of them

At risk of contradicting myself a bit, I think Casey's M.O. was to spend money to make money. Weaver makes this point a lot. This did not work for us; it probably can't work in an AFL environment. So we were losing money and going for high profile players to try to build the brand and draw in crowds and sponsorship. It backfired.

I think there was a shift in focus about 1-2 years into Miller's tenure. We moved (were forced) from selling the whole high profile (Brown) thing to selling the 'up and coming' thing which we see this year especially with our membership campaign.

It's hard to say 100% whether Miller is to blame for our predicament, or whether we are reaping what we sowed from earlier.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

quack, sham, fraud, fake, impostor, hoaxer, cheat, deceiver, double-dealer, swindler, fraudster, mountebank; informal phony, shark, con man, con artist, scam artist, flimflammer, bunco artist, snake oil salesman; dated confidence man

sorry oxx, must disagree as most of those things actually require some amount of intelligence.

finally we have danny frawley thread MK III

 

[IDGAF]

3 frawley had no direction for the future but neither did miller. his first 2 drafts he traded away early picks the exact opposite of what we needed to do .it showed a lack of understanding of where the list is at and ignored the future. every draft bar 04 miller has attempted the big trade involving our early picks.

This BS annoys me ... We got Nathan Brown "Go figure" ... and Kane Johnson ....dual premiership player , experienced , very highly regarded in all football schools , and now club captain . Easiest thing to do is pick the bones out of things in hindsight ... but where were people when the foresight was called for ? ... backslapping the boys for picking up those two thats where . Be interested to know where you stand on the Polak deal Santa Claws ? another one out of interest .. where would we be in the experince stakes at the minute without those two on our list ?

to say miller was under instructions flys in the face of everything that happened.it was millers job to recognise list deficiencies and do something about it. he ran the whole box and dice and he failed miserably.
miller may be good at getting a trade done but he has no idea when it comes to building for the long term.
if miller had done his job properly wallace would have been starting from yr 3 instead of yr 7.

By and large , Miller had to sit back on his hands and let "The Frawley Maelstrom" run its course in his first year at the club .... and then begin to pick up the peices

 

[FSUB10Y]

Can't believe reading this post the positive comments about Miller and Wallace.

Millers track record as follows:
-extended the contract of the worst coach in AFL history(Frawley) by 1 year when he joined the Tiges as our "Saviour".
-supported the worst President in Richmond's history just to get on the board.
-went hard and LOST on recruiting Fevola and Solomon (not saying we should or shouldn't have, just stating that the recruitment king lost out)
-returned to the halcion days when recruiting Kingsley - Wallace also responsible here (remember the gap in our list....remember Hudson, Fletcher, Fleming, Nicholls etc....)

As for Wallace....
-keeps on referring to The Graph.....
-is constantly feeding the public with negatives about our list in order to minimise expectation on the team.
-takes credit for where the Doggies are now.....even though when he left he stated that he couldn't take them any further!!!!!!!
-has to date done nothing but bul!$hit and promote himself whilst at Punt Road
-has tried to buy a few more years by stating that we will be ready in 2011 - good to see he is installing a 'winning' culture at Richmond.
-Still does more media work than he does coaching - why did we employ him??

So my friends, we are at the mercy of two 'guns' living purely on reputations and are yet to deliver the goods!!!!!

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Miller was not even at the club ...LMAOO

Frawley is to Punt rd... as Hitler , was to Germany

Frawley should be put on trial in Geneva for "Crimes against football"

Some of your very best work there, ID.

I just wish the media would stop hiring these ex-coaches for expert insight. Schwab, Frawley, Thomas ... they are all available to the media because they have no expert insight.

Add to that Ayres, Shaw, Watson, Bartlett, Cornes ... all complete failures in the coaches box, and seemingly sought after in the commentary box

By and large , Miller had to sit back on his hands and let "The Frawley Maelstrom" run its course in his first year at the club .... and then begin to pick up the peices

I remember in at least one interview where Miller claimed to be using his first 12 months at the club just as a year of observation. And he'd have been mad to do it any other way.

Can't believe reading this post the positive comments about Miller and Wallace.

Millers track record as follows:
1)-extended the contract of the worst coach in AFL history(Frawley) by 1 year when he joined the Tiges as our "Saviour".
2)-supported the worst President in Richmond's history just to get on the board.
3)-went hard and LOST on recruiting Fevola and Solomon (not saying we should or shouldn't have, just stating that the recruitment king lost out)
4)-returned to the halcion days when recruiting Kingsley - Wallace also responsible here (remember the gap in our list....remember Hudson, Fletcher, Fleming, Nicholls etc....)

A few things here. In 2002 he was working for the bloody Hammerheads ... came to Tigerland for 2003, and really started implementing some changes at the end of 2003, including the recruitment of Nathan Brown and then Terry Wallace in 2004.

1) - Miller had been there for ten minutes. He conceded that he required a year for observation. He used that time to realise what we all already knew from following the club closely for the previous three years and more that Frawley was not the answer. Consequently, Frawley was fired three years ago this July.

2) - Again, did what he had to do. The end justifies the means. Notably, again, "the worst President in Richmond's history" is no longer there. Quite an achievement to move on a president of a club, I would think.

3) - Played hardball on both players, something that hadn't really been done effectively by the Tigers at the trade table since Graeme Richmond and Ian Wilson busted balls in the 70's. Both Carlton and Essendon wanted far more than each of these players were worth. Solomon has been a very ordinary footballer for about five years now - so glad we didn't chase him hard. Fevola can clearly play, but a very poor quality human - Carlton can have him and his issues. Fevola will never play in a premiership team.

4) - Major difference with Kingsley is that he was taken, like Knobel, in the pre-season draft. After the best 80 young players in the country have already been scooped up in the national draft. Frawley, however, used national draft picks (often second or third round, and even a first rounder at times) to net his band of dudleys. Anyway, you cannot judge Kingsley at least until the conclusion of this season. If he manages to somehow win us one game with his presence, his inclusion will have paid for itself. Note - Mark Graham (taken Pick 65 2004 after we'd already secured seven other youngsters before him) did win us one game almost singlehandedly ... I think it may have been the Sydney game at the 'G a couple of years back.

 

[oxx]

that's what i reckon

 

[PLSC]

Can't believe reading this post the positive comments about Miller and Wallace.

Millers track record as follows:
-extended the contract of the worst coach in AFL history(Frawley) by 1 year when he joined the Tiges as our "Saviour".
-supported the worst President in Richmond's history just to get on the board.
-went hard and LOST on recruiting Fevola and Solomon (not saying we should or shouldn't have, just stating that the recruitment king lost out)
-returned to the halcion days when recruiting Kingsley - Wallace also responsible here (remember the gap in our list....remember Hudson, Fletcher, Fleming, Nicholls etc....)

As for Wallace....
-keeps on referring to The Graph.....
-is constantly feeding the public with negatives about our list in order to minimise expectation on the team.
-takes credit for where the Doggies are now.....even though when he left he stated that he couldn't take them any further!!!!!!!
-has to date done nothing but bul!$hit and promote himself whilst at Punt Road
-has tried to buy a few more years by stating that we will be ready in 2011 - good to see he is installing a 'winning' culture at Richmond.
-Still does more media work than he does coaching - why did we employ him??

So my friends, we are at the mercy of two 'guns' living purely on reputations and are yet to deliver the goods!!!!!

good stuff

both are the biggest politicians going around and are full of it

the only thing that is a positive is that they know their reputations will be stuffed if richmond dont do anything so its bound to change sometime

 

[PLSC]

4) - Major difference with Kingsley is that he was taken, like Knobel, in the pre-season draft. After the best 80 young players in the country have already been scooped up in the national draft. Frawley, however, used national draft picks (often second or third round, and even a first rounder at times) to net his band of dudleys. Anyway, you cannot judge Kingsley at least until the conclusion of this season. If he manages to somehow win us one game with his presence, his inclusion will have paid for itself. Note - Mark Graham (taken Pick 65 2004 after we'd already secured seven other youngsters before him) did win us one game almost singlehandedly ... I think it may have been the Sydney game at the 'G a couple of years back.

yeh and in doing so cost us dowler just so graham could have a fairytail last season

give me a ****ing break it was a rubbish pickup same as knobel same as kingsley

 

[tigerdan]

yeh and in doing so cost us dowler just so graham could have a fairytail last season

give me a ****ing break it was a rubbish pickup same as knobel same as kingsley

I will reserve judgement on Kinglsey until after he has played a few games. The fact that he is injured should not enter the equation because injuries could happen to anyone.

 

[1980]

At risk of contradicting myself a bit, I think Casey's M.O. was to spend money to make money. Weaver makes this point a lot. This did not work for us; it probably can't work in an AFL environment. So we were losing money and going for high profile players to try to build the brand and draw in crowds and sponsorship. It backfired.

I think there was a shift in focus about 1-2 years into Miller's tenure. We moved (were forced) from selling the whole high profile (Brown) thing to selling the 'up and coming' thing which we see this year especially with our membership campaign.

It's hard to say 100% whether Miller is to blame for our predicament, or whether we are reaping what we sowed from earlier.

Miller has been 100% responsible for drafting since the day he walked into the club.

 

[1980]

Some of your very best work there, ID.



Add to that Ayres, Shaw, Watson, Bartlett, Cornes ... all complete failures in the coaches box, and seemingly sought after in the commentary box



I remember in at least one interview where Miller claimed to be using his first 12 months at the club just as a year of observation. And he'd have been mad to do it any other way.



A few things here. In 2002 he was working for the bloody Hammerheads ... came to Tigerland for 2003, and really started implementing some changes at the end of 2003, including the recruitment of Nathan Brown and then Terry Wallace in 2004.

1) - Miller had been there for ten minutes. He conceded that he required a year for observation. He used that time to realise what we all already knew from following the club closely for the previous three years and more that Frawley was not the answer. Consequently, Frawley was fired three years ago this July.

2) - Again, did what he had to do. The end justifies the means. Notably, again, "the worst President in Richmond's history" is no longer there. Quite an achievement to move on a president of a club, I would think.

3) - Played hardball on both players, something that hadn't really been done effectively by the Tigers at the trade table since Graeme Richmond and Ian Wilson busted balls in the 70's. Both Carlton and Essendon wanted far more than each of these players were worth. Solomon has been a very ordinary footballer for about five years now - so glad we didn't chase him hard. Fevola can clearly play, but a very poor quality human - Carlton can have him and his issues. Fevola will never play in a premiership team.

4) - Major difference with Kingsley is that he was taken, like Knobel, in the pre-season draft. After the best 80 young players in the country have already been scooped up in the national draft. Frawley, however, used national draft picks (often second or third round, and even a first rounder at times) to net his band of dudleys. Anyway, you cannot judge Kingsley at least until the conclusion of this season. If he manages to somehow win us one game with his presence, his inclusion will have paid for itself. Note - Mark Graham (taken Pick 65 2004 after we'd already secured seven other youngsters before him) did win us one game almost singlehandedly ... I think it may have been the Sydney game at the 'G a couple of years back.

This is entirely selective hindsight, and being one of the posters with more integrity than most, expect better from you.

Played hardball for Solomon??? Didnt chase him hard??? How does that stack up against flying to London to lobby him??? Miller went all out for him and promised exhorbitant salary and then publically claimed Sheedy told him its crazy to pay that sort of money for a half back flanker.

It wasnt that long ago that you've forgotten the details.

 

[Bruman]

Can't believe reading this post the positive comments about Miller and Wallace.

Millers track record as follows:
-extended the contract of the worst coach in AFL history(Frawley) by 1 year when he joined the Tiges as our "Saviour".
-supported the worst President in Richmond's history just to get on the board.
-went hard and LOST on recruiting Fevola and Solomon (not saying we should or shouldn't have, just stating that the recruitment king lost out)
-returned to the halcion days when recruiting Kingsley - Wallace also responsible here (remember the gap in our list....remember Hudson, Fletcher, Fleming, Nicholls etc....)

As for Wallace....
-keeps on referring to The Graph.....
-is constantly feeding the public with negatives about our list in order to minimise expectation on the team.
-takes credit for where the Doggies are now.....even though when he left he stated that he couldn't take them any further!!!!!!!
-has to date done nothing but bul!$hit and promote himself whilst at Punt Road
-has tried to buy a few more years by stating that we will be ready in 2011 - good to see he is installing a 'winning' culture at Richmond.
-Still does more media work than he does coaching - why did we employ him??

So my friends, we are at the mercy of two 'guns' living purely on reputations and are yet to deliver the goods!!!!!

Perfect Richmond Thinking.. Sack them both and start again i suppose. Every team in the league would take wallace. Every team. Since Wallace arrived the club richmond appointed a footy manager and miller went to board level to bring continutity to the club which has been achieved. Any good business or club has a long term plan.. If they dont they are irresponsible. The reason he has to talk negative about the list is becuase of ******** supporters like you who want to win a flag NOW or else..

 

[GhostofJimJess]

This is entirely selective hindsight, and being one of the posters with more integrity than most, expect better from you.

Look 1980, I will maintain my cynicism of Greg Miller right up until he fully delivers what he promised to at Richmond, and probably well beyond that too. I had a bit to do with him when he was with North and I know full well that he is a slick operator who can spin it with the best of them. I defend him only against irrational rants by people who don't have a clue, not against people who actually know the details. I am certainly not naive to some of Miller's foibles as a business and footy operator.

Played hardball for Solomon??? Didnt chase him hard??? How does that stack up against flying to London to lobby him??? Miller went all out for him and promised exhorbitant salary and then publically claimed Sheedy told him its crazy to pay that sort of money for a half back flanker.

It wasnt that long ago that you've forgotten the details.

The details according to Kevin Sheedy, that is.

When it comes to spin, Sheedy is the master, rivalled in football only by Eddie McGuire. He's plays whatever cards are available to him at the time. Regarding Solomon, he played the "loyalty" angle. He had no great allegiance to Dean Solomon - he's revealed that since. It was more a personal matter between he and Miller. It's clear the pair have history and issues, and he certainly didn't want it to be seen that Miller had claimed a victory over him. Solomon was merely the pawn in their battle of egos.

Sheedy is a cunning and conniving operator. He has used and abused the Richmond Football Club for the better part of the last twenty years to achieve his goals. And I'm not talking about the sporadic claims to "want to return to Tigerland one day", usually just prior to him signing an increased coaching deal at Windy Hill. That's small fry. There are a number of other acts of chicanery he's pulled at Richmond's expense, the details of which I'm not at liberty to expand on this forum. I will say, however, that at various stages he has had at least two key Richmond administrators on his payroll.

And by saying that I'm glad we didn't chase Solomon hard, what I meant was that I'm glad we didn't chase him hard enough to actually get him.

 

[FSUB10Y]

Perfect Richmond Thinking.. Sack them both and start again i suppose. Every team in the league would take wallace. Every team. Since Wallace arrived the club richmond appointed a footy manager and miller went to board level to bring continutity to the club which has been achieved. Any good business or club has a long term plan.. If they dont they are irresponsible. The reason he has to talk negative about the list is becuase of ******** supporters like you who want to win a flag NOW or else..

You my friend are an absolute peanut....bet you thought it was great that Richmond gave Frawley a 5 year term as it meant it brought some stability to the club....this in fact WASTED 5 years of the club's time and money.

I do not want our 'saviour' to do the same....I can accept improvement, but at the moment, 3 years in, I can't for the hell of me see any....forget about the 9th finish last year....how many teams did we beat convincingly....how many teams absolutley embarassed us with unprecedented thrashings......

We have improved so much that we were overwhelming underdogs against last year's basket case (deservedly so) and got beaten convincingly in round 1.

But hey, don't worry, because the Graph is headed in the right direction....

Keep swallowing all the bul!$hit being thrown your way, and before you know it, another 5 WASTED years will have gone by.

 

[FSUB10Y]

Perfect Richmond Thinking.. Sack them both and start again i suppose. Every team in the league would take wallace. Every team. Since Wallace arrived the club richmond appointed a footy manager and miller went to board level to bring continutity to the club which has been achieved. Any good business or club has a long term plan.. If they dont they are irresponsible. The reason he has to talk negative about the list is becuase of ******** supporters like you who want to win a flag NOW or else..

BTW...just realised you're a Saints supporter....what makes you an expert...the full trophy cabinet...the stability at your club.....the massive supporter base.....

F#$% O%^ and worry about your own basket case of a club......with that list you should've had 2-3 flags in recent years....maybe you should bring back Frawley........

 

[toommy]

Miller has been 100% responsible for drafting since the day he walked into the club.

you have to blame millar and the recuiting staff for the blunders frawley can only act on advise from them as they had access to the juniors while frawley was coaching. all frawley sees from players is some videos.he would have been lucky to see an under 18 game live when he was coaching

 

[santa claws]

This BS annoys me ... We got Nathan Brown "Go figure" ... and Kane Johnson ....dual premiership player , experienced , very highly regarded in all football schools , and now club captain . Easiest thing to do is pick the bones out of things in hindsight ... but where were people when the foresight was called for ? ... backslapping the boys for picking up those two thats where . Be interested to know where you stand on the Polak deal Santa Claws ? another one out of interest .. where would we be in the experince stakes at the minute without those two on our list ?





By and large , Miller had to sit back on his hands and let "The Frawley Maelstrom" run its course in his first year at the club .... and then begin to pick up the peices

excuses excuses apologists for mediocrity are good at making them.
and shove your hindsight where the sun dont shine mate. ive always been critical of both the brown and johnson deals and was against frigging around with pick 8 for polak.

whilst brown is a quality player let me ask how many games has he played for us and will he be about when we become a top 4 contender. our list was crap at the end of 02 just like it was crap at the end of 04. i didnt see wallace trading away early picks in 04 did you.in fact we off loaded for more early picks. it was this approach that should have been adopted in 02 its impossible to build a decent list trading away your early picks. it seems thats something miller and most supporters still dont understand.

end of 02 and miller trades away an experienced player and down grades our early draft picks 10 places for johnson sheesh.that experienced player im talking about has been as good if not better for his club than johnson has been for us. he then proceeds to trade away our second round pick no 28 for another recycled hack in blumfield.
did he then think about the future at all hell no. he proceeded to use picks 41 and 47 on more recycled hacks fleming and nichols.a crap list and just one kid with our early picks and clearly no understanding of where we were at. now thats short sighted.

2003 comes along the list is the worst in the comp most thinking people agree with this (exlude richmond people) its imperative we go into rebuild mode but what does miller do he trades away pick 6 and 20 and wastes pick 21 on a highly speculative kid. and wasted our 3rd round pick on a feel good fs selection in roach.ffs even when hes used a reasonably early pick hes managed to stuff them all up.
0f 18 players drafted in the nd psd rookie draft in millers first 2 yrs just 7 remain 2 of those we gave our future up for in johnson and brown. of the rest jackson hartigan schulz a re struggling only raines and tuck have established themselves.it seems wallace has been busy cleaning the list of miller duds when he should be moulding most of his selections into long term players.