List Mgmt. Free Agency 2019

[philthy05]

Eh. I was a big fan of Tomlinson a few years back but for whatever reason I'm not sure he ever really improved from the level he showed as a youngster. And I'm not sure where he fits structurally in our side. We could do worse but I think we could do better too.

I'm still really keen on Jack Martin, hopefully the club still is too.

I like jack martin but he could be overpriced based on perceptions on his worth because he was a mini-draft pick who was meant to be special.

Would rather have Tomlinson + the kid we draft with a first round pick rather than Martin who we have to trade for. Martin it really comes down to his form this year, and what gcs want for him.

 

[Janus]

Eh. I was a big fan of Tomlinson a few years back but for whatever reason I'm not sure he ever really improved from the level he showed as a youngster. And I'm not sure where he fits structurally in our side. We could do worse but I think we could do better too.

I'm still really keen on Jack Martin, hopefully the club still is too.

He doesn’t fit in structurally. That’s the point. We want as many “fits anywhere” players as we can get. You want players that can rotate into defence or up forward.

Leave Martin. Concentrate on Lukosius.

 

[Jonts]

Tonlinson gets my tick, would've loved C4 to say we're into Cog

 

[Janus]

Tonlinson gets my tick, would've loved C4 to say we're into Cog

Might be into Tomlinson first so GWS is forced into signing him early, and Coniglio is the secondary target.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

C4 I have an ASA question that you may know the generic answer to, rather than anything specific

I know that given the definition of who is an associate, that genuine Independent ASA's are difficult to find (that's why the AFL wouldn't reveal the details of how the Judd - Vizzy ASA was set up because it probably failed the associate rule), but what is the sort of industry split between ASA's paid for directly by the club for use of images and promo work done for the club and with sponsors on behalf of the club, outside standard CBA requirements, and those arranged for and paid by club sponsors and media partners like Ch 7 and radio stations etc??? Is it in the 50/50 range or heavily slanted one way or the other.

This is a tough question to answer because:

1. Clubs aren't provided visibility to each others ASA expenditure, and
2. Every club has their own clever way of dividing and managing this bucket of money (some are more creative than others).

For example, most club will generally have it divided into 3 categories:

1. Additional Player Services (although this will soon be phased out as it will be rolled into standard AFL contracts as of 2020).
2. Club Sponsored Marketing
3. Independent Media/Marketing Agreements

Without knowing exactly - I'd suggest that most of the bigger market teams will have a larger portion of their ASA expenditure taken up by item 3 (as bigger markets afford more opportunity). Player managers also use item 3 to drive up their clients price when negotiating a deal and now use it as a ploy to get where they want.

Item 1 is a bit of a minefield and was complicated by the AFL endorsed China deal - at the moment all of the Port players have a piece of the pie under item 1.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This is a tough question to answer because:

1. Clubs aren't provided visibility to each others ASA expenditure, and
2. Every club has their own clever way of dividing and managing this bucket of money (some are more creative than others).

For example, most club will generally have it divided into 3 categories:

1. Additional Player Services (although this will soon be phased out as it will be rolled into standard AFL contracts as of 2020).
2. Club Sponsored Marketing
3. Independent Media/Marketing Agreements

I think you'll find that most of the bigger market teams will have more of their ASA expenditure taken up by item 3 (as bigger markets afford more opportunity). Player managers also use item 3 to drive up their clients price when negotiating a deal and now use it as a ploy to get where they want.

Thanks C4.

I find ASA's the hardest thing to work out of all the things in the CBA. As you implied its an opaque area.

I have read the Associate definition regarding ASA's and find it hard to believe that you could get a decent substantial, but true independent ASA, eg I just can't see say Rolex sponsoring a player $200k out of the blue and Rolex has no connection to the club. The media arrangements seem to be caught by the Associate definition.

Its also a bucket of funds that as you implied, is easily manipulated and whilst the terms have to be commercial, the $1.12m could be say 95% spread over 5 to 8 players rather than the whole 44.

The media just aren't bright enough to investigate it and explain it properly and the AFL don't seem to want to open the door on it - and not just the Judd example.

It's why I laugh when I hear media stories of how can they afford that player and their cap is full stories. The ASA implications and manipulations seem to be completely ignored by them.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

Had heard something similar re Tomlinson, but also heard Coll and Hawks very keen as well.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Had heard something similar re Tomlinson, but also heard Coll and Hawks very keen as well.

Pretty sure Collingwood have had a couple of cracks at Tomlinson.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Thanks C4.

I find ASA's the hardest thing to work out of all the things in the CBA. As you implied its an opaque area.

I have read the Associate definition regarding ASA's and find it hard to believe that you could get a decent substantial, but true independent ASA, eg I just can't see say Rolex sponsoring a player $200k out of the blue and Rolex has no connection to the club. The media arrangements seem to be caught by the Associate definition.

Its also a bucket of funds that as you implied, is easily manipulated and whilst the terms have to be commercial, the $1.12m could be say 95% spread over 5 to 8 players rather than the whole 44.

The media just aren't bright enough to investigate it and explain it properly and the AFL don't seem to want to open the door on it - and not just the Judd example.

It's why I laugh when I hear media stories of how can they afford that player and their cap is full stories. The ASA implications and manipulations seem to be completely ignored by them.

Its the lack of transparency that is the sticking point.

For example; City Hall needs to sign off on all club sponsored marketing and independent arrangements, however they give no justification as to why deals are accepted/rejected.

Without getting too cynical about it all, the general feeling is that the ASA is essentially now being used as another tool of F/A and trade (going back to what I said earlier about player agents/clubs using it as negotiating platform and the AFL not providing trasparency about each clubs spend, rubber stamping deals to suit their agenda etc).

It also put Port at a disadvantage during the trade period last year.

It's not a perfect system, but we need to work with it for the moment until the next agreement.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Its the lack of transparency that is the sticking point.

City Hall needs to sign off on all club sponsored marketing and independent arrangements, however they give no justification as to why deals are accepted/rejected.

Without getting too cynical about it all, the general feeling is that the ASA is essentially now being used as another tool of F/A and trade (going back to what I said earlier about player agents/clubs using it as negotiating platform and the AFL not providing trasparency about each clubs spend, rubber stamping deals to suit their agenda etc).

It also put Port at a disadvantage during the trade period last year.

It's not a perfect system, but we need to work with it for the moment until the next agreement.

Do you have an example of what is a true independent ASA, and falls outside the 2019 $1.12m ASA cap?

 

[Lightning_Rod]

The club is very interested in Adam Tomlinson.

Lots of cap room and a fair chunk of ASA to play with (thanks to recent offloads).

I recall him being best mates with Logan Austin and thats why we seemed to alwas have a connection to him.

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[Arsene Wenger]

Crows are all in for Grundy in 2020

 

[Janus]

Its the lack of transparency that is the sticking point.

City Hall needs to sign off on all club sponsored marketing and independent arrangements, however they give no justification as to why deals are accepted/rejected.

Without getting too cynical about it all, the general feeling is that the ASA is essentially now being used as another tool of F/A and trade (going back to what I said earlier about player agents/clubs using it as negotiating platform and the AFL not providing trasparency about each clubs spend, rubber stamping deals to suit their agenda etc).

It also put Port at a disadvantage during the trade period last year.

It's not a perfect system, but we need to work with it for the moment until the next agreement.

Let me guess - Hawthorn said Wingard wasn't worth more than 15 and Burton because they were only offering him a $625k a year contract (or whatever the hell it was), even though they had the ability to supplement that through ASAs?

 

[Janus]

Crows are all in for Grundy in 2020

But seriously...

Why the * would he go to Adelaide?!? Collingwood fans have said that if he was coming back to SA, it would be to Port.

I reckon that's why we selected his brother, by the way. Not that Riley won't be a good player, more an added incentive for Brodie to come play for us. Grundy and Lycett (with Ryder playing permanent forward in the twilight of his career) sounds great to me

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Let me guess - Hawthorn said Wingard wasn't worth more than 15 and Burton because they were only offering him a $625k a year contract (or whatever the hell it was), even though they had the ability to supplement that through ASAs?

I'm not sure it trickled into the trade logistics side of the fence .. but you're right. I said at the time, they had more to offer him off-field financially and Port’s ASA was effectively limited thanks to the AFLPA. They are paying him more than $625k base though.

 

[Lightning_Rod]

But seriously...

Why the **** would he go to Adelaide?!? Collingwood fans have said that if he was coming back to SA, it would be to Port.

I reckon that's why we selected his brother, by the way. Not that Riley won't be a good player, more an added incentive for Brodie to come play for us. Grundy and Lycett (with Ryder playing permanent forward in the twilight of his career) sounds great to me

Stahp it

If that happens

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[manureid]

Crows are all in for Grundy in 2020

They should be. They are 3 parts fooked ruck stock wise.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

They should be. They are 3 parts fooked ruck stock wise.

Jacobs getting a 10-12 week injury, will derail their season more than their dopey camp last year.

 

[Janus]

Jacobs getting a 10-12 week injury, will derail their season more than their dopey camp last year.

Jacobs doesn’t need to get injured. He’s on the slide down.

So is Ryder, but he’s got the ability to extend his career by 2-3 years by playing predominantly forward.

They should have started rebuilding after 2017, but instead went after Gibbs again. Absolutely horrendous list management.

 

[Macca19]

O'Brien is a good replacement for Jacobs. I don't know why people keep under valuing him.

 

[Janus]

O'Brien is a good replacement for Jacobs. I don't know why people keep under valuing him.

That's great if you rate Jacobs and think his style of ruck is going to work in the modern game.

Gawn/Grundy is what the typical elite ruck will be like going forward into the future. The Cox type - the guy who has the endurance to run all day and act like the extra midfielder in a situation where at center bounce you're only allowed 6 in the middle.

I don't think O'Brien can get around the ground and offer the extra that he needs to survive.

 

[Macca19]

I wonder if Grundy would come back. Brother playing in the same state. I imagine the Crows would have to make him probably the number 1 paid player in the league to get it done

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Crows are all in for Grundy in 2020

Explains why they didnt go all in for a ruck this year.

The problem for them is they need to challenge now and rebuilt next year.

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[COKEandCOLA]

Apologies for the intrusion, I was just wondering why Joel Garner hasn't been getting a game.

Our club was very interested in him but with James Worpel being available at our first selection, we chose him thinking that Joel would be available at our second selection.

Unfortunately he was snapped up by yourselves which put a spanner in the works.

What do you think your club would be looking for in a trade for him?

His younger brother is part of our NGA and we will most likely draft him, it'd be nice to have them both playing together.

Thanks for your time and apologies if this isn't the correct thread.

 

[philthy05]

Apologies for the intrusion, I was just wondering why Joel Garner hasn't been getting a game.

Our club was very interested in him but with James Worpel being available at our first selection, we chose him thinking that Joel would be available at our second selection.

Unfortunately he was snapped up by yourselves which put a spanner in the works.

What do you think your club would be looking for in a trade for him?

His younger brother is part of our NGA and we will most likely draft him, it'd be nice to have them both playing together.

Thanks for your time and apologies if this isn't the correct thread.

Garner is still a baby really. No real need to rush him into the side. Has done well from day one since he came into the magpies side playing as a defender. We’ve got a fair bit of depth. Sam Mayes who came over from Brisbane and been playing well can’t crack our side. Plenty of opportunity there for him in time though.

Have zero idea what trade value is as he wasn’t a high pick and hasn’t debuted but don’t imagine port would want to part with him either. Would very much like to keep him as he is intriguing and we need medium defenders going into future. Doesn’t seem like he is in a rush to go anywhere either.