Free kick count in Grand Finals - Victorian vs Non-Victorian teams?

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#55
Not much in it really. Only glaring exception being 2016.
You know the umpires got the Bulldogs over the line in 2016 because without the assistance this year they were back to the mediocrity they belong in.

Last night's game wasn't that bad in terms of umpiring I think, the soft Dusty shirt grab aside. Tigers deserve the grand final spot.

Last year's prelim involving GWS, a different story.
 

Sydswans666

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#56
Free kick counts don't ever tell the whole picture, so the stats 46% (frees for non-Victorian side) to 54% (Victorian side) does not make it an obvious point. The main issue I have is the 50/50 calls can seriously go in favor of one side, and when it's an obvious free to the other side, it does not get paid or the umpire says "I didn't see it". This leads to a miscue of the stats.
Bias is a natural phenomena, there's nothing really wrong with it iif it's at a reasonable level. However, there are times it's obvious to any AFL fan that the game is clearly not umpired on a consistent level for both teams. In most cases if the team is clearly the better side, and if they're playing to a home crowd, then the probability is high that the free kick count will be in their favor (or in the least draw even). But in the Cats v Crows game, the Crows lost the free kick count 17 to 23.
I hope the umpires umpire in the spirit of the game this coming GF. Just let the better team win, that's all I ask!
The Selwoods and Danger alone would've had more than Adelaide.
 

Crankyhawk

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#59
I just looked up the stats (of free kicks) of every Grand Final between a Victorian and non-Victorian team since 2000 and this is what I got

2001
Brisbane - 22
Essendon - 19

2002
Collingwood - 24
Brisbane - 16

2003
Brisbane - 13
Collingwood - 18

2007
Geelong - 28
Port Adelaide - 25

2012
Sydney - 10
Hawthorn - 21

2013
Hawthorn - 14
Fremantle - 13

2014
Sydney - 18
Hawthorn - 18

2015
Hawthorn - 14
West Coast - 13

2016
Sydney - 8
Western Bulldogs - 20

So that is

Non-Victorian - 138 free kicks
Victorian - 162 free kicks

Or

Non-Victorian - 46% of free kicks
Victorian - 54% of free kicks

It also means of the 9 Grand Finals with Victorian and Non-Victorian teams playing since 2000, the Victorian team have won 7 of them (free kick wise), the non-Victorian team has won it once and there was one draw.

What are the reasons for this, and could this be a problem for Adelaide next week?
Most of the difference is the 3 Sydney GFs. Dirty cheats

:)
 

ZingerB

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#60
Brisbane 2002/03 were far more physical sides than Collingwood so no surprise to see they also conceded more free kicks in those games.
In 2003, Collingwood specifically targeted Jonathan Brown for essentially the entire 1st quarter. That one surprises me quite a bit tbh.
 

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ZingerB

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#63
Personally, I don't think the GF is an issue, but geez there has been some shocking umpiring during finals series of late. Sometimes it doesn't effect the result (i.e the last 2 games Geelong have been involved in have been atrociously umpired). Others it clearly does. There have been 3 PF's in the last 10 years that have been decided by less than a goal where the loser was absolutely crushed by the umpires in the final quarter (Hawks v Pies, Adelaide v Hawks, Port v Hawks). There was last years grand final which frankly was just embarrassing at times. Those 4 games by themselves should be totally unacceptable in such a short period of time but there are just many more examples. I have always taken the view that we should hold umpires to account 100% of the time, much like players. If a team pumps the opposition by 100 points but someone had a stinker, they still get dropped. Unfortunately we tend to not care about the umpiring when the game is a blowout or the teams involved are crap. It is easy to look at a game like Port v Carlton this year and say '2 ordinary sides, one got pumped by 100 points who cares' but I am sure those umpires officiated in finals this year and they were a disgrace that night. Pick any year over the last 10 and you will find absolute garbage umpiring all year. It shouldn't surprise anyone when that rubbish spills over into the finals series. If you continue to allow it to fester, it will eventually so obviously decide a grand final that the result will end up on court.
 

bombersfan4000

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#64
I just looked up the stats (of free kicks) of every Grand Final between a Victorian and non-Victorian team since 2000 and this is what I got

2001
Brisbane - 22
Essendon - 19

2002
Collingwood - 24
Brisbane - 16

2003
Brisbane - 13
Collingwood - 18

2007
Geelong - 28
Port Adelaide - 25

2012
Sydney - 10
Hawthorn - 21

2013
Hawthorn - 14
Fremantle - 13

2014
Sydney - 18
Hawthorn - 18

2015
Hawthorn - 14
West Coast - 13

2016
Sydney - 8
Western Bulldogs - 20

So that is

Non-Victorian - 138 free kicks
Victorian - 162 free kicks

Or

Non-Victorian - 46% of free kicks
Victorian - 54% of free kicks

It also means of the 9 Grand Finals with Victorian and Non-Victorian teams playing since 2000, the Victorian team have won 7 of them (free kick wise), the non-Victorian team has won it once and there was one draw.

What are the reasons for this, and could this be a problem for Adelaide next week?
Lol 2016
 

NathanMX

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#65
He's making that thread by Wednesday, be patient.

And on Thursday I look forward to his thread about the Swans getting an extra days break despite Hawthorn finishing on top in 2012 after the Preliminary Final.

Give the kid time and a break, he's just having fun on school holidays.
Don't forget the thread about how they would have won in 2014 had the game been at the SCG....ergo AFL corruption cost the Swans a flag and gifted the Hawks a hat trick :D
 

Numtums

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#66
I just looked up the stats (of free kicks) of every Grand Final between a Victorian and non-Victorian team since 2000 and this is what I got

2001
Brisbane - 22
Essendon - 19

2002
Collingwood - 24
Brisbane - 16

2003
Brisbane - 13
Collingwood - 18

2007
Geelong - 28
Port Adelaide - 25

2012
Sydney - 10
Hawthorn - 21

2013
Hawthorn - 14
Fremantle - 13

2014
Sydney - 18
Hawthorn - 18

2015
Hawthorn - 14
West Coast - 13

2016
Sydney - 8
Western Bulldogs - 20

So that is

Non-Victorian - 138 free kicks
Victorian - 162 free kicks

Or

Non-Victorian - 46% of free kicks
Victorian - 54% of free kicks

It also means of the 9 Grand Finals with Victorian and Non-Victorian teams playing since 2000, the Victorian team have won 7 of them (free kick wise), the non-Victorian team has won it once and there was one draw.

What are the reasons for this, and could this be a problem for Adelaide next week?
Why have you included 2007 when it was between two non Victorian (South Australian) clubs?
 
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#67
Without a doubt should be precisely 50% each, with absolutely no exceptions. Obviously this is corruption by the VFL...

You need to send this damning evidence to the authorities immediately. If you need help drafting up an email give me a PM.
 

falcons2

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#68
(Hawks v Pies, Adelaide v Hawks, Port v Hawks).
Not sure of the 1st 2 but the Port Hawks game you got to get over mate. In the last 3 minutes Port receive 2 very soft frees. The first is to number 47 (sorry I don't know who that is) Has his back to the play stopping Spangher going to the ball but gets the free! Then the Polec free against Roughead. Wow! Close to the perfect tackle but yep a bit of in the back. Minute late Ebert marks, plays on kick smothered by Hodge. As they turn Ebert clearly holds Hodge - play on! Jonas dives in Stratton tackles with Hodge assistance. Hodge gets the free when it should have been Stratton. Very harsh but certainly equivalent on technicality to the two previously mentioned Port frees. Last 10 seconds ball kicked to Ports 50, Monfries holding Lake's arm - play on. Lake falls on it and holds it in. That's it! Time to cut the mythology, face the facts and realise it was 3-9 in the first quarter and 13-16 overall as to why they lost and nothing to do with umpiring.
 

Heaps of fun

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#69
It's because Victorians have better manners than the rest of Australia. We say our pleases and thank yous and cover our mouths when we cough.
 

Adelaide Hawk

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#70
There have been 3 PF's in the last 10 years that have been decided by less than a goal where the loser was absolutely crushed by the umpires in the final quarter (Hawks v Pies, Adelaide v Hawks, Port v Hawks).
Get your hand off it pal.

2011 PF Hawks v Collingwood. Frees 26-28
2012 PF Hawks v Port Frees 24-21
2014 PF Hawks v Port Frees 17-21

Now, if the loser was absolutely "crushed by umpires" in the final term, does that mean the Hawks were "crushed by umpires" in the first 3 quarters? Don't be an idiot all your life son. You've got no idea.
 

Mattdougie

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#71
Not much in it really. Only glaring exception being 2016.
You know the umpires got the Bulldogs over the line in 2016 because without the assistance this year they were back to the mediocrity they belong in.

Last night's game wasn't that bad in terms of umpiring I think, the soft Dusty shirt grab aside. Tigers deserve the grand final spot.

Last year's prelim involving GWS, a different story.

Lol yet we still finished high in free kicks

All 2016 and 2017 showed was the swans are good in the pre show but can't finish the act.

Maybe another 3 mill extra in Cola is needed
 

TheKanga

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#73
Without a doubt should be precisely 50% each, with absolutely no exceptions. Obviously this is corruption by the VFL...

You need to send this damning evidence to the authorities immediately. If you need help drafting up an email give me a PM.
It's not just the count.
It's the ones they let go for certain teams.
And pay for others.

Sometimes they can be momentum sapping decisions//non-decisions that completely change a game.
 
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