Fremantle and Ross Lyon - where to now

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Disagree.... 2007-9 was much different. You could say possibly worse. Freo in 2008 only had 6-8 guys aged 23 or under.

We at least had good KPPs in their primes such as Pav, Sandi, McPharlin and Johnson. the midfield had to be changed.

This rebuild, the midfield was solid but needed the KPPs to get us back into finals. Freo at least got 13-15 guys aged 23 or under.
This rebuild is of different character because instead of hitting the draft hard like we did in 2008 and 2009, we have balanced the list by both drafting and trading. In 2010 when we beat Hawthorn in the EF we had 10 first or second year players playing, and an average age of under 24.

The team that beat Collingwood on the weekend is a full year older than the 2010 team, and had seven experienced players recruited from other clubs.
 

Freomaniac

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This rebuild is of different character because instead of hitting the draft hard like we did in 2008 and 2009, we have balanced the list by both drafting and trading. In 2010 when we beat Hawthorn in the EF we had 10 first or second year players playing, and an average age of under 24.

The team that beat Collingwood on the weekend is a full year older than the 2010 team, and had seven experienced players recruited from other clubs.
We were lucky to make finals in 2010 off the back of Barlows Brilliance from rounds 1-14.

Again.... in 2008, we only had 6-8 guys aged 23 or under. you can thank Schwab and Connolly for that. Trading picks 11, 27 and 43 for josh carr in 2004 didn't sit well with me. Trading picks 3 ad 19 for des headland in 2002 didn't sit well with me either.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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We were lucky to make finals in 2010 off the back of Barlows Brilliance from rounds 1-14.

Again.... in 2008, we only had 6-8 guys aged 23 or under. you can thank Schwab and Connolly for that. Trading picks 11, 27 and 43 for josh carr in 2004 didn't sit well with me. Trading picks 3 ad 19 for des headland in 2002 didn't sit well with me either.
Don’t disagree with the last paragraph. However, my point remains that if Mark Harvey can turn around a side half made up of rookies and state league players to make finals three years into a rebuild, then why can’t a better coach in Ross?
 

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Don’t disagree with the last paragraph. However, my point remains that if Mark Harvey can turn around a side half made up of rookies and state league players to make finals three years into a rebuild, then why can’t a better coach in Ross?
two totally different scenarios.

10 years ago it was different. It was easier to make finals as a WA club, but because our club was badly run, we only made finals 3 times from 1995-2011.

Also, its at least 5 times more harder to win the flag in 2019 compared to 2010 let alone make finals.

So, If Lyon makes finals, you want to keep him then?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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So, If Lyon makes finals, you want to keep him then?
I said this last year

Imagine if he was 6-6 mid season and sitting 10th and we extended his contract to 2022. I’d fly over and burn the place down.​

Followed by:

Of course he stays if he has an 11-11 record.​
The only way he gets a contract extension is if he makes top four and/or has a credible showing in finals. I’m thinking a season like 2012 at a minumum, something that shows he still has what it takes as coach.​
Otherwise it is assessed in 2020.​
 

Freomaniac

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I said this last year

Imagine if he was 6-6 mid season and sitting 10th and we extended his contract to 2022. I’d fly over and burn the place down.​

Followed by:

Of course he stays if he has an 11-11 record.​
The only way he gets a contract extension is if he makes top four and/or has a credible showing in finals. I’m thinking a season like 2012 at a minimum, something that shows he still has what it takes as coach.​
Otherwise it is assessed in 2020.​
fair enough but dont be a two faced clown about it
 

dropbear101

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Rebuilds take time.
I think we did well didn't bottom out to bad but managed to get elite talent.

I personally thought it was gonna take longer when I realised we were in for a rebuild halfway through 2016.

Ross lyons changed his game plan still built off defence first but he's evolved.
Only nuffies think because he didn't win 2013 gf doesn't mean he cant bring us a future crack at a gf.

Rebuilds are fraught with danger ours was relatively painless always thought we would get out of it.
 

theGav56

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So much hate. And all because Lyon played Suban instead of the young-un in his dream team.

Also the fence sitting of 6 and 6 is not good enough, but 11 and 11 will do fine.

In the meantime the smell of hypocrisy fills the air with thread OP's like the following;

This is the thread devoted to sacking Ross Lyon, which will happen at some point in the next 18 months. I will start:

Sack Ross Lyon.

That's not tracking so well for the author, but the back-flippery would be the envy of young Russian gymnasts. But it gets even better. This comment from a little earlier;

Hard to expect a side that has hoofed the ball up forward for five years to start hitting targets inside 50 all of a sudden just because we’ve got some tall timber. Give it to about round 8 before we judge whether we’re still playing dumb footy.

Once apon a time round 8 and he'd be able to make up his mind. Then it was time to sack the coach. Now at 6 and 5 he needs to wait a minute and think about it.
 
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MadMundy

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If Ross does well and gets us playing finals over the next two seasons then there's no reason not to extend. Nothing more of a bigger FU to a coach by letting them go after they give you good results. If he does that why can't we keep him on? The players love him, he loves the club, there's no egos and everyone at the club seems to get along really well. It's 100% the best unit we've had, and Ross has been the best coach we'e had. If he doesn't perform? Then of course move him on.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Also the fence sitting of 6 and 6 is not good enough, but 11 and 11 will do fine.
If you read it again, the two positions are not contradictory. Mental ability does deteriorate rapidly after 60, so I’ll let it slide.
 

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theGav56

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If you read it again, the two positions are not contradictory.
If you read my post again you see that I called them fence sitting, and didn't call them contradictory. You have a serious problem reading posts but refusing to understand them.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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If you read my post again you see that I called them fence sitting, and didn't call them contradictory. You have a serious problem reading posts but refusing to understand them.
There is no fence sitting. I said 6-6 did not earn a contract extension. I said 11-11 would save him from being sacked at the end of 2019. Do you understand the difference?
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Once apon a time round 8 and he'd be able to make up his mind. Then it was time to sack the coach. Now at 6 and 5 he needs to wait a minute and think about it.
Still playing dumb footy: we have the worst conversion rate for inside 50s in the league. Clear evidence Ross has not evolved as much as you think he has.
 

theGav56

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There is no fence sitting. I said 6-6 did not earn a contract extension. I said 11-11 would save him from being sacked at the end of 2019. Do you understand the difference?
Sure there is a difference, but it is still 2/- each way, and is a complete backflip from your clearly stated call for him to be sacked. You are all over the place.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Dumb football doesn't get you to 6-5 with a rebuilding side.
Dumb football took him to GF with a 20-2 H&A record. Still couldn’t convert a huge inside 50 differential to scores in the 2009 GF. The problem for him remains.
 

theGav56

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Dumb football took him to GF with a 20-2 H&A record. Still couldn’t convert a huge inside 50 differential to scores in the 2009 GF. The problem for him remains.
Hell then, give me dumb football and 20-2 then. If your not in contention you don't play finals.
 

MadMundy

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It seems old mate real estate has got quite the hate boner for Ross. Did he piss in the man's cereal?
 

herculez09

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10 years ago it was different. It was easier to make finals as a WA club, but because our club was badly run, we only made finals 3 times from 1995-2011.

Also, its at least 5 times more harder to win the flag in 2019 compared to 2010 let alone make finals.
What? Can you explain to me the bolded?

Outside of two additional teams I don't see how it's 5x harder to make finals or win a flag.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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The same inability to turn full field dominance in to scores plagues him now as it always has. Expect players like McGovern and Lake have in the past to continue to gobble up our inside 50s.
 

theGav56

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The same inability to turn full field dominance in to scores plagues him now as it always has. Expect players like McGovern and Lake have in the past to continue to gobble up our inside 50s.
Posts of this standard while judging a coach winning 20-2 as playing dumb football. The mind boggles.
 
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