Coach Fremantle and Ross Lyon - where to now

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Quokka

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He's a long way from "having the full support of the board" seeming to actually have the full support of the board.
 

Forward Press

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So does Ross "have the full and complete support of the board" yet? Or is he gonna coach in 2020?
Taking off my Eagles hat they should retain him until the end of the year. No point having a caretaker around for six or seven games - see if Freo make finals then review at the end of the year depending on how it goes. I am sure Lyon knows he's on shaky ground at the moment.
 

Damon_3388

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Agreed. Freo supporters still parroting the "Nic Nat No Stat" line simply didnt watch what happened last night. A dozen times Nic followed up his own tap work out of the center/ at a stoppage and either kicked a forward entry himself or freed up a mid to take an uncontested possession on the run and make a forward entry. Any other ruck in the comp does that and they get 3 Brownlow votes.

With just 2 games under his belt Nic is easily in the top 5 rucks in the league right now. He is stupidly talented and improves our midfield without question. To say that he "wasnt impressive" is simply, unquestionably wrong.
When he plays, on a per minute basis, he's the most impactful player in the league.
 

Farang83150

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Taking off my Eagles hat they should retain him until the end of the year. No point having a caretaker around for six or seven games - see if Freo make finals then review at the end of the year depending on how it goes. I am sure Lyon knows he's on shaky ground at the moment.
It's worked ok for Nth and the Blues.
 

Freomaniac

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Sounds like a whole load of excuses to me. All those numbers but the most pertinent number is zero - that's the number of finals played by Freo since 2015. It is looking very possible that the streak will extend into 2020. Surely the head coach is the one that is ultimately accountable for that?

I posted this on the WC club board citing a couple of Freo posters (no links, obviously, to the poster or post):





Obviously different supporters of the same club have different opinions, but I thought these were the only ones to understand the position your lot is in.
You say it sounds a lot of excuses. I call it how it is.

I am man enough to Admit that Ross Lyon should be held accountable. But how much should Lyon be held accountable to all of freos problems? 100%? I doubt it.

Back in 2012-15, freo only had pav as a key forward. Its 2019 and our KPF stocks are Hogan, Tarberner, Lobb and McCarthy, a Swingman in Breannan Cox and a Rookie in Dixon. At Parts of the season all those guys have been injured. You cant blame ross for injuries.

You can blame him for certain selections.

I have enjoyed the good bits of this rebuild. If you knew you are going to spend 3-4 years outside the top 8, get the best batch of kids and set up the future. I said if this was a 4 year rebuild, start of the 1st year getting at lot of 18-20 year olds so that in 4 years time those guys are the 22-24 year olds to lead your team back up the ladder.

Saying that freo did what I wanted in the rebuild. In 2016, freo got some KPPs in Darcy and Cox in the draft and McCarthy and Hamling in trades. KPPs take longer to develop than mids. In 2017, we got a lot of mids in Brayshaw, Banfield, cerra and Crowden.

I want Ross Lyon to at least coach until the end of this season and here is why.....

Freo are currently on 7 wins. Despite the Horror performance that was the derby on the weekend.

I look at freos remaining games....

-Hawks at Tassie
-Swans at home
-Dogs in docklands
-Cats in Perth
-saints at Docklands
-Bombers in Perth
-Port in Adelaide

Some winnable games there. I expect Freos form slump to turn around. Realistically, the Swans and Essendon game at home is winnable.

The only away games freo have an outside chance of winning is the dogs and Saints.

If Freo somehow get 10 or possibly 11 wins, you can look back at freos season and say the close defeats to Suns, Bombers, Crows, Demons and Blues cost freo a spot in Finals.
 

Freomaniac

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They are building.
Yep we are. Slowly though.

Again..... I get crapped on for "accepting" freo not to make finals for 3-5 years.

But... if you know the whole team is bad and you need to improve that best 22, its going to take 3-5 years. I have said this before and will say it again. Essentially in the 1st year of the rebuild, you are going toget a lot of 18-20 year olds. 4 years from now, those 18-20 year olds will be 22-24 year olds that are going to be the core of the team leading the side back up the ladder.

In the 1st year of the rebuild, get all your KPPs. Key position players take time to develop. Ruckmen take 3-5 years and you dont know if they are certain to be decent at the end of it.

In 2016 we got a lot of KPPs. Logue is a strange one. 193cm plays as a hlaf back flanker but can play anywhere even as a CHB or CHF. Brennan cox is a CHB/CHF swingman. Darcy is a ruckman and by the time sandi reitres this season, he is next in line and our number 1 ruckman and in his 4th season as a 22 year old. Duman is a tall skinny 192 cm, 85 kg tall defender too. McCarthy as a forward and Hamling as a defender we got in trades.

In 2017, freo got a lot of mids in Brayshaw, Banfield, Cerra, Crowden and Giro.

Its 2019 and All those blokes I mentioned have played a fair bit of games in the last 2-3 years.


Amazing how your mob Brisbane has gradually recovered from the mass exodus of 2014 when Voss was sacked as coach when Polec, Yeo, docherty and Karazenis all left.

I assumed your team recruited and traded well in the 2014 and 2015 drafts. Because you guys had won 5 games in 2018 and 5 in 2017 and now Brisbane are in the top 8.
 

Freomaniac

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AFL should charge Ross Lyon with bringing the game in to disrepute.
I think Ross the Boss should get Tomic the Tank Engine to the Dockers to be a motivational speaker.
How does Lyon continue to keep his job?

I just don't understand.

Lyon is the very embodiment of a football scavenger. He comes in and takes on a team that were going to be on the verge of a finals tilt anyway. He did it with St Kilda when they sacked the coach before him, and underachieved with a team approaching it's prime. He did it again with Freo.

But he is not a long-term coach. He is no Alistair, who has built a team from nothing and taken that team to multiple premierships despite having it's list pretty much overturned during a long period of time between drinks.

Not to mention that his style of play is SO OUTDATED by now. He still thinks we're in 2010.

He is football's DJ KHALED. He acts like he does something, but really does nothing. He can pick a good beat that someone else made and occasionally have a hit, but most of the time his stuff is frustrating to watch and none of his hits are actually good enough to be considered history's best.
I do, but I like this one.
Yeah you can't argue he's achieved, but I think his time is up.
As a neutral I'd argue he hasn't had enough time to gel and develop this forward line he has traded in.
Maybe Lyon could be a DJ.

He should quit coaching and try.
Would be ropable if we 'poach' Ross Lyon with a big contract...the game has passed him by.

Since taking Freo to a Grand Final has done fu** all...isn't up to it and i don't like his style.

After losing Neale last year, possibly the Hill brothers and Langdon this year and the likely retirement of Mundy, Freo will barely have a midfield and will find things difficult.
Surely gone if they miss finals.
Amazing how some people have reacted after this derby loss.

Um..... Ladies and Gentleman, do you know that this is Freos 1st 10 goal loss this season?

Yeah we got belted by Richmond by 25 points. But it was decieving as freo kicked the last 4-5 goals of that game.

Also Freos other losses this season.

3 point loss to Suns in Gold coast
13 point loss to eagles in the derby early this season
17 point loss to the crows in Adelaide
8 point loss to Bombers in Adelaide
14 point loss to Demons in the MCG
4 point loss to carlton.


Last season, we lost by 50 points or more in 9 games.

4 of them came between rounds 1-14. round 15 was the bye. the other 5 game between rounds 16-23. the fequent thrashings happened for 2 reasons.

1. freo had injuries to experienced players
2. freo had to play more youth due to injuries to experienced players.
 

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Freomaniac

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Two things:
What happened to Freomaniac, and how can you love posts as well as like them?
1. Deflecto probably ratted on him to the mods for giving St Kilda some crap.
2. Shouldn't all the 7 options come up when you are hovering on the like button?
He's normally pretty cool but he broke on the weekend and started to abuse a bunch of saints supporters.

We all like a bit of bants but the guy went rogue.
If any of you chaps want to know why I was suspended for 2 weeks. PM me.

oh and StCicatriz , You are half right.

That saints board is Hilarious.

one of those saints fans think I am Scott Watters lol
 

DirtySandman

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Amazing how some people have reacted after this derby loss.

Um..... Ladies and Gentleman, do you know that this is Freos 1st 10 goal loss this season?
Largest ever losing margin at a home game V eagles
Lowest ever score in a derby
Carlton last week
Hawthorn to come....

I'm OK with it.

Freo fans shouldn't be.
 

Forward Press

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But this is a serious question. Are fremantle improving? Because it took 16 rounds to finally see freo get belted by 50 points this season.
Would have been much earlier if it weren't for the junk time goals against Richmond.

Look, in the end coaches are judged by flags, finals, and win-loss records. At the moment, if Ross Lyon doesn't make finals I don't think he will be there in 2020.

Edit - it's also a bit puzzling you're using that 50 point barrier as a metric. I don't see any difference between a 40 or 50 point belting - it's a comfortable win either way. Things like the loss to Adelaide where your entire side kicked 34 points should also be concerning, more than 'well at least wasn't a 50 point loss'.
 

Forward Press

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Here are another couple of metrics:

- Bottom five for 'points for' after 15 rounds (surpassed only by St Kilda, Melbourne, Carlton and Gold Coast)
- Have not won by more than four goals against any opponent since Round 1
- Only side this year so far to have lost to the bottom 3 teams

I think Freo should keep Ross Lyon until the end of the year, but if those metrics hold up and Freo fail to make finals that has to be the end of the road.
 

Freomaniac

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Would have been much earlier if it weren't for the junk time goals against Richmond.

Look, in the end coaches are judged by flags, finals, and win-loss records. At the moment, if Ross Lyon doesn't make finals I don't think he will be there in 2020.

Edit - it's also a bit puzzling you're using that 50 point barrier as a metric. I don't see any difference between a 40 or 50 point belting - it's a comfortable win either way. Things like the loss to Adelaide where your entire side kicked 34 points should also be concerning, more than 'well at least wasn't a 50 point loss'.
Yeah I brought up the richmond game.

Lost by 25 and Yes I already brought up the junk time goals too.

Your actually puzzled by the 50 point barrier as a metric. Again, Freo in 2018 got belted in a lot of games. 9 of those games we lost by 50 points or more. if you lose by 50 points its a belting.

The biggest question is, how do you define improvement in a rebuild? Obivously the win/loss record is a good indicator.

We have improved a fair bit from that disatrous 2016 season with that 4 win 18 loss record. Then we got 8 wins in 2017 and 2018.

In 2017, Freo lost by 100 points 3 times and got an 89 point loss to Port. Last year we only had just the one 100 point loss and that was against the cats in Geelong.

The 2 biggest concerns most of the freo board had this season was 2 issues: getting more than 8 wins and get less thrashings.
 

Freomaniac

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Strategic drafting, trading and adjustments off field have assisted us to become competitive. As soon as you are competitive you get that winning culture.
I dont think its impossible for freo to turn it around to be honest. As you know Brisbane have improved in the last 2-4 years.

Hell I look at the demons under Mark Neeld in 2013. I dont think the overall squad was that Horrible. Once Neeld was sacked and they got Paul Roos, they slowly improved.

Port from 2011-12 wasnt actually a bad side, just financially cash strapped. They got a new coach in Hinkley and different fitness staff and they improved too.
 

Freomaniac

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Here are another couple of metrics:

- Bottom five for 'points for' after 15 rounds (surpassed only by St Kilda, Melbourne, Carlton and Gold Coast)
- Have not won by more than four goals against any opponent since Round 1
- Only side this year so far to have lost to the bottom 3 teams

I think Freo should keep Ross Lyon until the end of the year, but if those metrics hold up and Freo fail to make finals that has to be the end of the road.
Yet you forget that this freo side has beaten 4 teams currently in the top 8: GWS, Collingwood, Port and Brisbane.

I still think freo will get 2-3 more wins before the season ends.
 

MadMundy

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I never understood the amount of Fremantle fans on our board saying the Naitanui was terrible on Saturday, he dominated the ruck, and did plenty of things around the ground, stats aren't everything. But to be fair we have people on our board looking up umpire stats before the game to look for excuses after a loss so not too surprising.
 

FastLane

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Amazing how some people have reacted after this derby loss.

Um..... Ladies and Gentleman, do you know that this is Freos 1st 10 goal loss this season?

Yeah we got belted by Richmond by 25 points. But it was decieving as freo kicked the last 4-5 goals of that game.

Also Freos other losses this season.

3 point loss to Suns in Gold coast
13 point loss to eagles in the derby early this season
17 point loss to the crows in Adelaide
8 point loss to Bombers in Adelaide
14 point loss to Demons in the MCG
4 point loss to carlton.


Last season, we lost by 50 points or more in 9 games.

4 of them came between rounds 1-14. round 15 was the bye. the other 5 game between rounds 16-23. the fequent thrashings happened for 2 reasons.

1. freo had injuries to experienced players
2. freo had to play more youth due to injuries to experienced players.
You make some great and valid points- too rational, some might say.
Although I agree with the majority, supporting Freo throughout Ross's tenure has been a bit like a bad relationship- when things are greta they are fantastic, and when they're bad they are horrible- always enough good to keep you in it, and when it does turn bad there are always excuses.
It's part of what makes me love and hate footy in equal parts.
Ross is an easy target- but I question our on field leadership- especially when things start going wrong. As much as I have loved Nat over the journey, I do wonder if he tries too much and others struggle to step up
 
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