Fremantle & Ross Lyon

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dave123

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bloody hell round 1

they had one bad game...yup they stunk last year ..along with five or six other teams at the bottom ....like 5 or 6 teams will stink this year

his record at freo is pretty good and hes rebuilt a basket case club and gave it a shake

I'd rather judge someone coaching over 7 or 8 seasons that one season and one game - which is just silly really
 

clivenator26

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During the first 2 months you were as bad as Fitzroy statistically.
I can't see who you will beat this year. Only Carlton at home?

The GWS are statistically worse than Fitzroy of 96 currently. Something something small sample size? Something something knee jerk reaction.

At home we are a chance against North, Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond & possibly St Kilda & Hawthorn.

Away we could roll Brisbane. And who knows how Port will respond this week after a big unexpected win last week.
 

clivenator26

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he was open about the need the change to adapt to modern football at the end of 2015. he highlighted that he needed to release some control to his assistants and to become a more "managerial coach" like those who are successful now. he highlighted he had to abandon his defensive game plan, built on stoppages, tagging etc. and that he had to deliver a game plan built more on attack, quick short disposal that cuts through zones. he highlighted he had to develop the kids and bring through the next generation.

that lasted less than 12 months. by the 3/4 mark of last season he conceded it did not work. he blamed himself saying he did not get the football dept right. he said he would be reverting back to what "worked". he would be taking more control. he would be going back to the defencive game plan. he would not be "gifting" games to the kids. he would be harder on the players.

i am surprised this wasnt a bigger talking point than it was. it was absolutely damning. essentially he confirmed that he was not able to adapt to the modern game. he could not change.

i cant see this season being much better than last tbh. i think freo fans will start to realise the situation they are in with him by the mid way mark of this season. but action will not happen until next season when it finally becomes too much. he will not see out his contract that is till the end of 2020. i think he will be sacked in 2018, they will pay out the last 2 years of his contract. freo will replace him with a coach that can see through a full rebuild of the list. a coach who can develop the players AND assistant coaches

the worrying thing for me if i was a freo fan is that the two biggest issues they have are confidence in its players and their overall skill/disposal. i think you would be hard pressed to find a freo fan that does not raise their skill and disposal are one of the major issues. yet after the round 1 loss ross states that skill is not something theyre working on and its a non issue. then you have pav during the game day commentary stating its not something they work on

i mean how in the hell is that escaping scrutiny by their supporters? there would not be another team in the land that does not work on their disposal and skill. its literally one of the most important aspects of modern football. hawthorn literally won 3 flags in a row from superior disposal that allowed them to cut through the zones that were developed between 2008-2012

ross just cant see past the game plan he was given by leigh tudor in the offseason of 2009 that was a new and improved version of clarkos cluster in 2008

This wasn't actually said. He said the turnovers werent ideal but weren't the reason they lost. The media (Dale Miller in particular) has twisted this as when I saw Miller's tweet about skill I thought that was very silly by Ross and wondered if he had watched the game but having watched the pressed later and read the transcript it wasn't what was said.

Even if the problem is skill how does a head coach actually coach that at AFL level? His job is gameplans/structures, imo if you're playing AFL you should have some level of skill and shouldn't be kicking out of the goalsqure into the man on the mark!!

I also remember remarking through he game we seemed to be playing on a lot as we were during the JLT so I didn't see us as having the same style as the 2012-15 side.

Also very cute Tudor is the mastermind.
 

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This wasn't actually said. He said the turnovers werent ideal but weren't the reason they lost. The media (Dale Miller in particular) has twisted this as when I saw Miller's tweet about skill I thought that was very silly by Ross and wondered if he had watched the game but having watched the pressed later and read the transcript it wasn't what was said.

Even if the problem is skill how does a head coach actually coach that at AFL level? His job is gameplans/structures, imo if you're playing AFL you should have some level of skill and shouldn't be kicking out of the goalsqure into the man on the mark!!

I also remember remarking through he game we seemed to be playing on a lot as we were during the JLT so I didn't see us as having the same style as the 2012-15 side.

Also very cute Tudor is the mastermind.

I think the piece you are missing is pavs commentary on the weekend where he explained that skill does not matter and effort is more important under a Ross Lyon coached side. This is supported by the players he selects and how he coaches. I mean how else do you explain Suban.

As for the comment about what can the coach do... are you serious. Hes the head coach. He implements the structure and program of the football dept. Including player development. It's his job to improve the skill of the players. Which includes appointing specialist roles.

If you don't believe me on the leigh tudor comment then please tell me what aspect of the game Ross has innovated. Leigh tudor was giving lectures in 2009 on his fwd press and fwd 50 pressure that was the hallmark of the saints in 2009. Ross's gameplan has barely changed since then and as time has past his side has dropped off. His game plan is now ineffectual against current ball movement and structure
 

Heaps of fun

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Who would of thought bringing in Hamling Kirsten brad hill and McCarthy wouldn't turn a side who won 5 games into a good side?

I know sandy and fyfe are back but they looked s**t even when they were playing last year
Freo's trading makes Carlton's look good.
 
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So salty. We are actually allowed to comment on another team without being arrogant about it, something many of your brethren could do with learning after your game on Saturday.
Nearly every very supporter who has commented on bigfooty or started a thread since the weekend has stunk of arrogance. You guys have won 1 game. We lost to port first game last year and still finished miles ahead of your mob. The fact you had to name a co-captain would highlight how much overestimation actually occurs at the demons. Also am referring to both sets of supporters not just Melbourne
 

donkeypunchd

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Nearly every very supporter who has commented on bigfooty or started a thread since the weekend has stunk of arrogance. You guys have won 1 game. We lost to port first game last year and still finished miles ahead of your mob. The fact you had to name a co-captain would highlight how much overestimation actually occurs at the demons. Also am referring to both sets of supporters not just Melbourne
What relevance has this to a thread on Fremantle? If you must know I live in WA so take a close interest in the Dockers & Eagles. Take your projections about Melbourne and our club to another board, preferably your own.
 

Ron The Bear

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His senior players are going off a cliff and he played five young blokes under 22, who did OK. Doing the best he can in a bad situation. The recruits struggled with Ross Lyon football. Should improve when the grounds slow down a bit. Needs to unearth some stars.
 
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Nightrain

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Fremantle's struggles last year were well documented, but the excuse of injuries was accepted by most as an explanation for their swift descent down the ladder. This season, with new recruit Cam McCarthy and the return of Sandilands and Fyfe, they were supposed to be fit and primed for a crack on the eight.

Their shambolic display against Geelong suggests however that there are much deeper problems at the Dockers. Their skill levels were highly subpar for an AFL list, and they rely on the same few players to lift them. Sandilands is reaching the end and none of the Freo depth rucks look much chop out. Hogan re-signing with the Dees was a major blow as indications were that the Dockers made a major push to bring him back to WA to replace Pav. With no real KPF, limited goal scoring ability and a lack of run out of defence, Freo played like a team with a bottom four list.

So far Lyon has not indicated that Freo is in a rebuild mode,bringing in players like Hill, Kersten and Hamling who it was hoped would make an immediate impact. A look at their fixture would suggest that there are only four winnable games before the bye, at what stage does Ross Lyon's tenure become untenable for the Fremantle board, who extended his contract last year.
Christ, all this from one game into the season and from a Dees supporter to boot. Guess we better pack-up shop. There's no way we can make the eight now.

We're not rebuilding; we're re-stumping, re-wiring and re-plumbing.

Didn't the Bulldogs last year prove what Matthews said the year before; that ruck's are overrated?

Maybe we should follow Melbourne's path. Sack our CEO and coach, get the AFL to source replacements, pay for them and then go, cry that we need more priority picks and get one disguised as a FA compensation pick. Maybe I am over-reacting but to a lot of people, you guys are the Victorian GWS. Just hard to take it from a supporter who's team is looked after.

If the Roos were smarter they'd have dropped the North from their name and then the pressure would have been on your club to relocate to the Gold Coast, as Melbourne would have still had a team.

Sorry end rant.

Yes, the Dockers are in trouble...
 
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I think the piece you are missing is pavs commentary on the weekend where he explained that skill does not matter and effort is more important under a Ross Lyon coached side. This is supported by the players he selects and how he coaches. I mean how else do you explain Suban.

As for the comment about what can the coach do... are you serious. Hes the head coach. He implements the structure and program of the football dept. Including player development. It's his job to improve the skill of the players. Which includes appointing specialist roles.

If you don't believe me on the leigh tudor comment then please tell me what aspect of the game Ross has innovated. Leigh tudor was giving lectures in 2009 on his fwd press and fwd 50 pressure that was the hallmark of the saints in 2009. Ross's gameplan has barely changed since then and as time has past his side has dropped off. His game plan is now ineffectual against current ball movement and structure
Very true
 

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Fremantle's struggles last year were well documented, but the excuse of injuries was accepted by most as an explanation for their swift descent down the ladder. This season, with new recruit Cam McCarthy and the return of Sandilands and Fyfe, they were supposed to be fit and primed for a crack on the eight.

Their shambolic display against Geelong suggests however that there are much deeper problems at the Dockers. Their skill levels were highly subpar for an AFL list, and they rely on the same few players to lift them. Sandilands is reaching the end and none of the Freo depth rucks look much chop out. Hogan re-signing with the Dees was a major blow as indications were that the Dockers made a major push to bring him back to WA to replace Pav. With no real KPF, limited goal scoring ability and a lack of run out of defence, Freo played like a team with a bottom four list.

So far Lyon has not indicated that Freo is in a rebuild mode,bringing in players like Hill, Kersten and Hamling who it was hoped would make an immediate impact. A look at their fixture would suggest that there are only four winnable games before the bye, at what stage does Ross Lyon's tenure become untenable for the Fremantle board, who extended his contract last year.
It's round one - ease up debutant
 
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Please enforce the "No 'where are they at' threads until after round 6" rule, mods

Yeah - we played s**t - but if we still play like s**t up until round 6 then you can sink the ******* boot in
It's a thread about how s**t Freo and Lyon are. History suggests mods will leave it open. Pretty poor.
 
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Fremantle's struggles last year were well documented, but the excuse of injuries was accepted by most as an explanation for their swift descent down the ladder. This season, with new recruit Cam McCarthy and the return of Sandilands and Fyfe, they were supposed to be fit and primed for a crack on the eight.

Their shambolic display against Geelong suggests however that there are much deeper problems at the Dockers. Their skill levels were highly subpar for an AFL list, and they rely on the same few players to lift them. Sandilands is reaching the end and none of the Freo depth rucks look much chop out. Hogan re-signing with the Dees was a major blow as indications were that the Dockers made a major push to bring him back to WA to replace Pav. With no real KPF, limited goal scoring ability and a lack of run out of defence, Freo played like a team with a bottom four list.

So far Lyon has not indicated that Freo is in a rebuild mode,bringing in players like Hill, Kersten and Hamling who it was hoped would make an immediate impact. A look at their fixture would suggest that there are only four winnable games before the bye, at what stage does Ross Lyon's tenure become untenable for the Fremantle board, who extended his contract last year.
Fit and primed for a crack at the 8? Mate, do you even watch football? Do you know how competitive it is? There are a minimum 15 teams that will be above Fremantle, with the exception of Brisbane and Essendon. Carlton may be even with Fremantle, other than that, you've got every other side in front of them. I'll tell you right now - they aren't priming for a crack at the 8!

Fremantle never had Hogan so you can't put him in the equation, Sandilands is a one in a generation ruckman; most ruckman won't stack up against him, and they played like a bottom 4 list, because, well, they are one!

I hope you've got a thick skin, because I think you're going to need it to absorb the barrage you receive here!
 

garlic munchers

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Danyle Pearce makes any team worse imo

He goes under the radar meanwhile he's about the worst kick in the competition, certainly for an outside mid

Without knowing their fitness, Crozier, Tucker, Balic should all be getting games

Collins is better than Dawson too surely...

They are caught in a bit of a time warp because the drop off has been of historic portions and now have a number of players simply running around collecting pay cheques (Ibbotson, Johnson, Mundy, Pearce) With the pay out obligations there are limitations on the Clubs ability to delist a host of players in one year.

Old comedy hour Rosco is likely to have to make some hard decisions in the coming weeks because they sure as hell ain't beating Port with that fwd line and the threats of handing out justice to whoever roughs up Fyfe's man bun is laughable (their current line up has all the intimidation factor of a lettuce leaf at 50 paces).

Upshot is Ross will absolutely last the year but he quite literally couldn't have timed this worse with the powers to needing to flog the new more expensive Burswood membership and looking likely to need some sort of new beginning story to sell to their (unwashed) masses.
 
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Was thinking last night if Freo have another poor year will they bite the bullet and pay out Ross's last 3 years of the contract? Or will they persist with him living in denial that they cocked up and see the team get worse and worse for the next few seasons?


The revolving door of coaches approach hasn't served any team, including yours well.
 
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The revolving door of coaches approach hasn't served any team, including yours well.

True but neither has sticking with coaches past their use by date. Lyon may be able to turn things around but I think his gameplan is outdated and there appears an unwillingness to evolve from the outside looking in
 
True but neither has sticking with coaches past their use by date. Lyon may be able to turn things around but I think his gameplan is outdated and there appears an unwillingness to evolve from the outside looking in
Has a real stink of Kevin Sheedy about it at essendon. They now freely admit they kept him on too long and it caused all kinds of damage as they were left so far behind the top of the comp and how modern football depts worked.

I think freo fans are struggling with coming to terms on what is a happening but slowly there are more that are realising it. I think the majority will all be on board with what is occurring within 18 months. Knives will be out for Ross to perform by the end of this season. By the half way mark of next season they will want him gone.

2 year pay out plus football dept tax on the cards here. Questions will be asked of their CEO as to why he gave the last two year extension
 

igon value

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Has a real stink of Kevin Sheedy about it at essendon. They now freely admit they kept him on too long and it caused all kinds of damage as they were left so far behind the top of the comp and how modern football depts worked.

I think freo fans are struggling with coming to terms on what is a happening but slowly there are more that are realising it. I think the majority will all be on board with what is occurring within 18 months. Knives will be out for Ross to perform by the end of this season. By the half way mark of next season they will want him gone.

2 year pay out plus football dept tax on the cards here. Questions will be asked of their CEO as to why he gave the last two year extension
Most are on board now - don't take defence of him on Bigfooty as the voice of Freo fans. Firstly Bigfooty is only a small subset of all fans, and secondly it is only argued in rebuttal to opposition fans criticising Freo.
 
Most are on board now - don't take defence of him on Bigfooty as the voice of Freo fans. Firstly Bigfooty is only a small subset of all fans, and secondly it is only argued in rebuttal to opposition fans criticising Freo.
I hope for freos sake what you say is true. However reading people's opinion on here there seems to be a reluctance still to accept what's happening. I have noticed more have come around in the last 12 months though.
 

igon value

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I hope for freos sake what you say is true. However reading people's opinion on here there seems to be a reluctance still to accept what's happening. I have noticed more have come around in the last 12 months though.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what the fans think, it's how the club acts.

I take your point about Sheedy, but that was an altogether different situation - he had coached them for over 20 years and won four premierships, a quarter of their haul. By comparison Lyon's record is meagre (though good in the context of Freo's overall record). A generation of Essendon supporters thought Sheedy was a genius, and ultimately he was too big a figure for the club to brutally move on early, or even change things around him.

Freo isn't in the same situation - our management doesn't have to be in thrall to Lyon, and we can change things around him. The football department can, at their behest, institute the same policies they did under Mark Harvey: no contracts to people over 28 longer than one year, no recruiting of players over the age of 28, trade out and cut players who want a trade, go deep in the draft. Ultimately Lyon will either have to embrace development or will walk under his own volition.

He is contracted until 2020, and in my view unless an obvious better replacement comes available (eg Clarkson) that contract should be honoured. But that does not mean that the coach's view on developing the list or how the football department must be run should be honoured.
 

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