Review Fremantle vs Sydney QF

[sproketman]

Yeah I put zero stock in disposal efficiency.

 

[sproketman]

Also Gerard Whateley can go * a horse.

 

[Van_Dyke]

Also Gerard Whateley can go **** a horse.

You want him and Caro to *? Poor bloke.

 

[sproketman]

You want him and Caro to ****? Poor bloke.

I wouldn't wish that on Caro.

I hope he meets the same demise as Mr Hands.

 

[Nodgey]

So, I'm hearing a bit on this board and elsewhere about how the mob up the road are in hot form, but Freo aren't looking so great. What I find interesting is how people are saying we apply great effort, but our basic skill errors are letting us down. I simply don't think that was true compared to West Coast on the weekend. Please consider the following stats from the weekend:

WCE Clangers (vs Hawthorn) = 50
Freo Clangers (Vs Sydney) = 41

Number of WCE players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 5
Number of Freo players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 1

Number of WCE players with 80 or above DE% = 4
Number of Freo players with 80 or above DE% = 7

WCE Median DE% = 68.7%
Freo Median DE% = 76%


It's a controversial opinion, but I actually think we used the ball really well on the weekend, better than West Coast. The difference was we faced a much tougher opposition who brought a lot more pressure than West Coast's opponent. Consider this:

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"

I don't think West Coast were tested on the weekend. Freo were.

Here's one more comparison:

Sydney clangers = 51
Hawthorn Clangers = 57

Goodnight

I agree. Hawthorn were terrible.

Let's say both teams are evenly matched heading in. Eagles lift for the final; hawks drop off. What should have been a 50/50 encounter quickly becomes 60/40 and a walkover.

Sydney brought intensity and effort (matching ours) thus pretty much ensuring our game remained a contest.

 

[pavsbootlace]

Stats can be misleading.

DE is a rubbish stat, without proper individual analysis.

I'll give you the individual analysis again. From two of the best in the business.

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"

Anyone who watched that game saw the Eagles beat Hawks at their own game!

I didn't watch the whole game. But what I saw was a listless Hawthorn side getting pumped by a slick Eagles side. Not a finals-like struggle.

Its like every time we play against the Hawks, its not that we're playing badly its just they destroy our structures.

I think you mean, "every time we play the Hawks, AT THE MCG OR IN TASSIE". We've only played them once in Perth in the last 5 years... and we won.

http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=6823&Code=a49a540f2263c8a41d5311884a76c801

 

[Taylor]

The game we punish opposition turnovers with goals is the game we win by 120 points, we are notorious for giving it back again or killing the ball for a stoppage upfield.

Hopefully intercept marks upfield come back into vogue and we hit up loose men inside fifty for goals.

We win the ball back so well but fall down.

 

[ydraw]

You don't think you would or should be favourites if a derby GF does eventuate

West Coast are definitely premiership favourites at this stage, and that won't change unless they lose the prelim.

At the end of the day, West Coast finished only 2 points behind us in the regular season, and have been in much better form than Freo over the last month. Not to mention they beat us the last time we played.

 

[Banker]

I'll give you the individual analysis again. From two of the best in the business.

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"




I didn't watch the whole game. But what I saw was a listless Hawthorn side getting pumped by a slick Eagles side. Not a finals-like struggle.




I think you mean, "every time we play the Hawks, AT THE MCG OR IN TASSIE". We've only played them once in Perth in the last 5 years... and we won.

http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=6823&Code=a49a540f2263c8a41d5311884a76c801

Umm what exactly did you think Clarkson was going to say? What he knows is that the Hawks can play much better.

Longmire comments were true.. Look at how many outs they had, played with 1 less rotation thanks to Reids injury.

Whether you like it or not that post was flawed and its bit more than putting stats out with no context. Also quite laughable how you think Hawks didn't turn up. You know why they played an injured Smith and Gunston because they were desperate to win. With Priddis out, what the Eagles accomplished is astounding.

 

[electricfeel]

Been thinking about it for a day now and while we didn't play that great and it left me uncertain about our flag prospects afterwards...I don't give a * anymore. I would love nothing more than to stick it up all the doubters by winning the flag in the ugliest ******* way possible. We are not anywhere near as bad as what has been said in the media. If we were, we'd be at the bottom of the ladder with our players all holidaying in Bali right now. We can do this. I still have faith.

Come on Freo!!!!!!!

 

[Keys]

West Coast are definitely premiership favourites at this stage, and that won't change unless they lose the prelim.

At the end of the day, West Coast finished only 2 points behind us in the regular season, and have been in much better form than Freo over the last month. Not to mention they beat us the last time we played.

It's all subjective and bookies odds are a reflection of money flows rather than actual chances

I stand by what I said earlier - watching your QF at the ground (which is the first time I've seen freo live under Lyon) it was noticeable to me how physically strong you were in comparison to the eagles. If we do meet in the GF that edge in physical strength will be important and I understood just why it's been so hard for us to beat you

With this in mind you would have the advantage in a hard fought final where skills are harder to maintain under the higher pressure

Form is as elusive as it can be misleading

 

[Mudd]

So, I'm hearing a bit on this board and elsewhere about how the mob up the road are in hot form, but Freo aren't looking so great. What I find interesting is how people are saying we apply great effort, but our basic skill errors are letting us down. I simply don't think that was true compared to West Coast on the weekend. Please consider the following stats from the weekend:

WCE Clangers (vs Hawthorn) = 50
Freo Clangers (Vs Sydney) = 41

Number of WCE players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 5
Number of Freo players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 1

Number of WCE players with 80 or above DE% = 4
Number of Freo players with 80 or above DE% = 7

WCE Median DE% = 68.7%
Freo Median DE% = 76%


It's a controversial opinion, but I actually think we used the ball really well on the weekend, better than West Coast. The difference was we faced a much tougher opposition who brought a lot more pressure than West Coast's opponent. Consider this:

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"

I don't think West Coast were tested on the weekend. Freo were.

Here's one more comparison:

Sydney clangers = 51
Hawthorn Clangers = 57

Goodnight

i like your statistical analysis but don't think that DE% tells the entire story.

you need to take into account that west coasts kick to handball ratio was 1.63 (212 kicks 130 handballs) , ours was 1.06 (197 kicks 186 handballs)

we had a very poor ratio which ross made comment on after the game. our DE may be artificially inflated due to the safety of a short handball compared to a longer kick.

the most worrying stat I feel is the disposal per scoring shot from the weekends games:

WC: 13
Syd: 15
Hawks: 17
Freo: 20

Us at 20 was the highest out of all 8 teams, our ball movement needs urgent improvement and blokes need to start backing themselves running into the fwd50 instead of kicking a short 20m pass to a 50/50.

 

[Keys]

i like your statistical analysis but don't think that DE% tells the entire story.

you need to take into account that west coasts kick to handball ratio was 1.63 (212 kicks 130 handballs) , ours was 1.06 (197 kicks 186 handballs)

we had a very poor ratio which ross made comment on after the game. our DE may be artificially inflated due to the safety of a short handball compared to a longer kick.

the most worrying stat I feel is the disposal per scoring shot from the weekends games:

WC: 13
Syd: 15
Hawks: 17
Freo: 20

Us at 20 was the highest out of all 8 teams, our ball movement needs urgent improvement and blokes need to start backing themselves running into the fwd50 instead of kicking a short 20m pass to a 50/50.

I thought your forwards pushed up too high at times. Meant that you went sideways with handball due to the absence of a target to kick long to

Partially explains your low inside 50 count as well

 

[ydraw]

It's all subjective and bookies odds are a reflection of money flows rather than actual chances

No it isn't, and no they aren't.

West Coast are currently outright favourites at $2.75. Fremantle at $3.50 are only marginally ahead of Hawthorn at $3.75. By any measure, West Coast are premiership favourites now and still will be until the bouncedown on grand final day unless they lose the prelim.

 

[Keys]

No it isn't, and no they aren't.

West Coast are currently outright favourites at $2.75. Fremantle at $3.50 are only marginally ahead of Hawthorn at $3.75. By any measure, West Coast are premiership favourites now and still will be until the bouncedown on grand final day unless they lose the prelim.

So if there's a trend towards people putting money on hawthorn because in their (subjective) view $3.75 is pretty attractive whilst at the same time punters stay away from the unattractive $2.75 WC are paying the odds will stay the same?

 

[Spoken4]

No it isn't, and no they aren't.

West Coast are currently outright favourites at $2.75. Fremantle at $3.50 are only marginally ahead of Hawthorn at $3.75. By any measure, West Coast are premiership favourites now and still will be until the bouncedown on grand final day unless they lose the prelim.

So if Fremantle absolutely smashed its prelim final and West Coast just fell over the line, they would still be premiership favourites going into a grand final? Without a doubt, Freo would come in as new favourite if that was the outcome. Just like they did on Friday night.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I just watched the last quarter of the game. Around the 10 minute mark we had repeat entries into our forward 50, and not once did we convert. Poor decision making and poor disposal cost us goals. We kicked past, over and to the sides of our forwards. D. Pearce is starting to annoy the piss out of me, he acts way to flippant on the field, and his inside 50's can be categorised as blind bombing.

Our tackling was pretty good and Sydney played very well. Rohan getting loose inside the 50 in the last was pretty sloppy defence. The boys showed plenty of intensity in the contests. Tippet played a great ruck/forward game for Sydney. Clarke should be made to watch until he figures out that he needs to be a marking target around the ground and in the forward line.

 

[ydraw]

So if Fremantle absolutely smashed its prelim final and West Coast just fell over the line, they would still be premiership favourites going into a grand final? Without a doubt, Freo would come in as new favourite if that was the outcome. Just like they did on Friday night.

I doubt it, as West Coast would still have a better form line and won the last time we played each other.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

So, I'm hearing a bit on this board and elsewhere about how the mob up the road are in hot form, but Freo aren't looking so great. What I find interesting is how people are saying we apply great effort, but our basic skill errors are letting us down. I simply don't think that was true compared to West Coast on the weekend. Please consider the following stats from the weekend:

WCE Clangers (vs Hawthorn) = 50
Freo Clangers (Vs Sydney) = 41

Number of WCE players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 5
Number of Freo players with 60% or less Disposal efficiency = 1

Number of WCE players with 80 or above DE% = 4
Number of Freo players with 80 or above DE% = 7

WCE Median DE% = 68.7%
Freo Median DE% = 76%


It's a controversial opinion, but I actually think we used the ball really well on the weekend, better than West Coast. The difference was we faced a much tougher opposition who brought a lot more pressure than West Coast's opponent. Consider this:

Clarkson's comments after the game "We were pretty bad".

Longmire's comments after the game "I thought our effort was outstanding. I was really pleased how we were able to fight on and play the sort of footy that we were able to play today. It was a gutsy effort"

I don't think West Coast were tested on the weekend. Freo were.

Here's one more comparison:

Sydney clangers = 51
Hawthorn Clangers = 57

Goodnight

As others have pointed out, stats can be very misleading. Our disposal and decision making leave a lot to be desired. I base this on my observations of our games, and when Lyon says our disposal and decision making has been poor.

 

[samFFC]

As others have pointed out, stats can be very misleading. Our disposal and decision making leave a lot to be desired. I base this on my observations of our games, and when Lyon says our disposal and decision making has been poor.

Was RTB very down on the disposal on Saturday?
Put me down as one of those around here that thought we had very good use of the ball when it counted. Good shooting for goal, unlike our opponents; good hitting of forward targets (many more marks inside 50) and good exiting from the backline. Hill and Sherro in particular used the ball well through the middle, MJ and Ibbo as usual down back.

Many of the clangers came from the guys getting the clearances (esp. Fyfe) and when you win 42-28 clearances you will rarely lose. Happy to concede more clangers if the ball is in the forward half more often.

I agree this has been a big issue for months now, but personally thought we overcame many of these issues on Saturday.

 

[sproketman]

I thought your forwards pushed up too high at times. Meant that you went sideways with handball due to the absence of a target to kick long to

Partially explains your low inside 50 count as well

That's the game plan. Not going to change in finals.

 

[Scham]

I just watched the last quarter of the game. Around the 10 minute mark we had repeat entries into our forward 50, and not once did we convert. Poor decision making and poor disposal cost us goals. We kicked past, over and to the sides of our forwards. D. Pearce is starting to annoy the piss out of me, he acts way to flippant on the field, and his inside 50's can be categorised as blind bombing.

Our tackling was pretty good and Sydney played very well. Rohan getting loose inside the 50 in the last was pretty sloppy defence. The boys showed plenty of intensity in the contests. Tippet played a great ruck/forward game for Sydney. Clarke should be made to watch until he figures out that he needs to be a marking target around the ground and in the forward line.

Good post. Agree with all of it except the part about our tackling. I thought we were terrible in this area all day but it may've improved in the last quarter, I'll have to watch it again like you. My memory though was that the Swans were far too easily able to get a clear handball away to a team mate in the tackle, that's not good enough.

 

[beetz]

Amazing how much difference 12 months makes.. Sydney board mainly blaming injuries on the loss but this time last year using injuries as an excuse such as the situation Freo were in was seen as a cop out.

Oh well, that's footy I suppose.

 

[E Shed]

You can only play as well as the opposition let you play. Remember when we shocked the footy world and destroyed Geelong on the G that day or the final against Sydney here in 2013? Those weren't bad teams, particularly that Geelong team but we simply overwhelmed them with effort and appetite for the contest. 2013 we were favourites for the flag because our team looked unstoppable, people were saying they had never seen pressure like it before. Thats what the Eagles reminded me of on Friday and thats why they are favourites. They have that magical quality of confidence that lifts normally average players to heights where they do things they've never done (witness Josh Hill in career best form and Hutchings playing the game of his life).

In comparison our confidence is down and our effort was just enough to get over a wounded Sydney side. Yes they brought incredible effort but they had 4 of their best out. To put it in perspective if we went to Sydney without Pav, Fyfe, Barlow and Spurr and lost Mayne (the good Mayne of 2013) in the 1st quarter and came away with a 9 point loss on their deck in a final we would take a lot out of that. And you know what the footy media (other than those who actually bring intelligence and insight, which is precious few) would ignore our injuries and talk about how good Sydney were. Its just how we are viewed.

Only a few degrees of effort, confidence, skill and luck make such a difference at the highest level between sides that are so highly tuned and elite in preparation. We finished top of the ladder but that counts for nothing now and we seem to be missing that 1 or 2 percent at the top edge of confidence and effort we had in 2013 that had everyone raving about us. We are talking about the elite factors that are going to make a difference in the hardest game of the year.

The Eagles look like a team that believes they are going to win, the same way we did in 2013. Thats why everyone is jumping on them.
But the thing is we didn't win that year, we got ambushed by a stronger more experience finals side. If Clarke and Mayne can find form and Taberner plays out of his skin we can win this. We need marks inside the forward 50 and to make more of our forward 50 entries in general.

We are likely going to have to get past Hawthorn to get to the G anyway. If we do that the team will believe and people's minds will change pretty quick about Freo being able to win the flag. Or you know what? Adelaide might get carried on a wave of emotion and destroy the Hawks and go all the way.

I guess the point is we have to win 2 games of football from here and they will be the hardest games we've played all year and nothing less than 100% good Freo is going to get it done.

 

[salim malik]

Not sure why Dawson isn't getting a heap of praise tbh. They had 53 entries to our 40 iirc... He had one kicked on him as a direct opponent and took a couple of key marks as well as his usual spoiling and help defense that is so valuable.

Because some on here have no friggin idea.