Autopsy Fremantle vs West Coast

[peppy la pew]

wc's selection's in the draft last year were confusing. Either your list managers don't believe your midfield is substandard or they are inept.

I understand the hype around Sheed, and the fact he is a WA boy. But he is the last type of player they need ATM
Even if they had the Brown and Emac, they still get spanked through the guts.

 

[beetz]

I think for blokes like Taberner a lot of the credit has to go to the development team. It would be pretty unlikely for 18 AFL recruiters to miss a talented player as tall as Taberner is, him coming on is a result of the work that he's done since he got to the club.

Not that unlikely to be overlooked.. Look at guys like Goodes and Swan who were drafted 43 and 58... Guys get overlooked all the time.

I do agree though, development played a huge part and full credit to the coaching staff. Recruiters saw the potential and the coaches developed it.

 

[clogged]

Not that unlikely to be overlooked.. Look at guys like Goodes and Swan who were drafted 43 and 58... Guys get overlooked all the time.

I do agree though, development played a huge part and full credit to the coaching staff. Recruiters saw the potential and the coaches developed it.

Goodes was a quirk of the draft. There was some rule in the late 90s that let clubs take a player younger than the standard draft age with a third round pick. IIRC Adelaide thought about using it to recruit Pavlich but picked up Ian Perrie instead.

 

[peppy la pew]

Goodes was a quirk of the draft. There was some rule in the late 90s that let clubs take a player younger than the standard draft age with a third round pick. IIRC Adelaide thought about using it to recruit Pavlich but picked up Ian Perrie instead.

I thought it was Ken McGregor ?

 

[clogged]

I thought it was Ken McGregor ?

That's the one.

 

[Lach72]

We're also playing a lot deeper, leaving talls in the forward line and backing our mids to win the ball

 

[Fred Ziffel]

This made me think - how awesome would it be to somehow get Brad back and there to be two Hills!

Seeing you have raised it; Who would you take out of our midfield to replace with Brad ?

 

[Lach72]

Suban. De Boer

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Suban. De Boer

Fair go. That's akin to Geelong solving their aging midfield problem by recruiting Mitch Clark.
MdB isn't in our midfield, nor Subes
The fact is we can't have them all. Granted, a year ago we could have fit G Ablett into our midfield at anybody's expense except Fyfe.
In 2013 we had three midfielders in the top 15 in the Brownlow. They have arguably improved since then.

 

[Gekko71]

... we arent at Hawks level of versatility but we are getting there. I would love to see Spurr, Clancee and Walters take the midfield step. Walters was saying he didnt have the ideal preseason but I think he can make in in the middle. He probably needs a bit of size/tank to really be effective and start getting those contested possessions and clearances. Spurr MAY not be skillful enough for it or really understand the position. I think Clancee shows a stack of potential in there actually.

An interesting point. What's going to be really interesting for me personally is how much our younger players are going to expedite this process - all this pressure for spots could make for some interesting combinations.

For example, Spurr really is hard as a cat's head and potentially could be a very good inside mid - as Brady Grey is rapidly improving, we may see this eventuate... alternately he could pick up a run-with role; I don't know what Spurr's tank is like, but the idea of Brady on a FB flank and Spurr playing the tagging role is an intriguing notion to me (or vice versa - or maybe they could rotate the tagging role to stay fresher through the game.

So which game were they watching?

The opening paragraph of the West Coast match report on afl.com.au ...

A dominant three quarters from West Coast was not enough to defeat Fremantle who scored a comfortable 30-point win in Sunday's Derby at Domain Stadium.

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2015-04-19/eagles-fall-to-freo

Oh dear, they really are delusional.

No just delusional - I might be drawing a long bow here, but comments like that really speak to me of major culture problems within the WCE. Freo had a similar problem during its early years - I remember a Steve Harris interview in the West a few years back that alluded to the problems the FFC were having when he came on board. I also did some primary market research for the Dockers as part of my masters studies shortly after Damian Drum had left the club... many of the internal whispers I heard at Freo at that time were far from pretty.

Before you can correct cultural problems at a large organisation, first you have to get management to buy into the idea of cultural change - and I'm not sure WCE Management can be bothered. Granted this is conjecture on my part, but I know from experience that the marketing department are often wrongfully regarded (and treated as) the main mouthpiece for senior management, especially when they're operating in a state of denial. Right now, the marketing messages coming out of the Eagles scream "ongoing internal issues" to me.

No marketer worth their salt would ever put out a press-release like the one you've mentioned - it's sentiment is so utterly out-of-step with the attitudes of its audience and the reality of the situation, it's just not funny. In addition to which, IMO no brand director with half a brain would ever suggest, develop, test, support or publish a positioning statement with zero credibility, unless their hand was being forced. "The West is Ours" is so completely removed from reality and has so little resonance with either current or potential WCE club members - it smacks of desperation, denial, and (..yes you're absolutely right) utter delusion.

Marketing departments at large organisations live and breath consumer sentiment - they are NEVER delusional, they can't afford to be - but Wet-Toast's public face is showing many signs to the contrary. I'm not going to lose much sleep over it frankly, but until the WCE Club Management embrace the need for cultural change, then team performance is always going to be poor. If WCE supporters and members believe something smells fishy at their club (and they're right frankly), then they really need to start their rebuild with a clean-out of corporate management... but then again, this is the Eagles we're talking about... so bugger 'em!

 

[Gekko71]

Agree, about the negativity. To listen to some on here you would think we had our pants pulled down, not won our SIXTH derby in a row.

You don't have to win by 100 points to destroy an opposition mentally.

West Coast are officially our biatches.

Agreed. Titus O'Reily said it beautifully in his Monday column:

"It was fun listening to Dockers fans lamenting the percentage they could have had. So sad, we all really feel for you and the awful problems you have"

XD

 

[Steinfreo]

No just delusional - I might be drawing a long bow here, but comments like that really speak to me of major culture problems within the WCE. Freo had a similar problem during its early years - I remember a Steve Harris interview in the West a few years back that alluded to the problems the FFC were having when he came on board. I also did some primary market research for the Dockers as part of my masters studies shortly after Damian Drum had left the club... many of the internal whispers I heard at Freo at that time were far from pretty.

Before you can correct cultural problems at a large organisation, first you have to get management to buy into the idea of cultural change - and I'm not sure WCE Management can be bothered. Granted this is conjecture on my part, but I know from experience that the marketing department are often wrongfully regarded (and treated as) the main mouthpiece for senior management, especially when they're operating in a state of denial. Right now, the marketing messages coming out of the Eagles scream "ongoing internal issues" to me.

No marketer worth their salt would ever put out a press-release like the one you've mentioned - it's sentiment is so utterly out-of-step with the attitudes of its audience and the reality of the situation, it's just not funny. In addition to which, IMO no brand director with half a brain would ever suggest, develop, test, support or publish a positioning statement with zero credibility, unless their hand was being forced. "The West is Ours" is so completely removed from reality and has so little resonance with either current or potential WCE club members - it smacks of desperation, denial, and (..yes you're absolutely right) utter delusion.

Marketing departments at large organisations live and breath consumer sentiment - they are NEVER delusional, they can't afford to be. But the WCE public face is showing many signs that they are. Granted I'm not going to lose much sleep over it, but until the WCE Club Management embrace the need for cultural change, then team performance is always going to be poor.

If WCE supporters and members believe something smells fishy at their club (and they're right frankly), then they really need to start their rebuild with a clean-out of corporate management... but then again, this is the Eagles we're talking about... so bugger 'em!

Interesting read but I think your overrating the eagles faithful. They will eat up that press release. The problem isn't the marketing the problem is the supporter demographic.

 

[Nickos66]

Agreed. Titus O'Reily said it beautifully in his Monday column:

"It was fun listening to Dockers fans lamenting the percentage they could have had. So sad, we all really feel for you and the awful problems you have"

XD

I was lamenting it - this applies to me.

Not to mention the loss of momentum heading into next week.

 

[Gekko71]

Interesting read but I think your overrating the eagles faithful. They will eat up that press release. The problem isn't the marketing the problem is the supporter demographic.

I partially agree with you - they're speaking directly to die-hard supporters with this kind of trash certainly... but that's not where the future of the club lies, and their existing supporter base can only underpin their organisational growth to a small degree. They need new supporters and additional club members, otherwise they'll go further backwards. "The West is Ours" ain't gonna do it for them.

 

[Gekko71]

I was lamenting it - this applies to me.

No offence intended Nickos - I agree a larger winning margin would have been brilliant, and much more cathartic.

Frankly I wanted WCE to be belted too... it just strikes me that at the end of the day, many people are complaining that the Dockers didn't win properly, which seems a trifle silly.

 

[poshman]

Fair go. That's akin to Geelong solving their aging midfield problem by recruiting Mitch Clark.
MdB isn't in our midfield, nor Subes
The fact is we can't have them all. Granted, a year ago we could have fit G Ablett into our midfield at anybody's expense except Fyfe.
In 2013 we had three midfielders in the top 15 in the Brownlow. They have arguably improved since then.

MdB Plays through the midfield and definitely subbed into the midfield. Suban plays predominantly midfield. Lyon even mentioned him as a midfielder in the presser. I dont subscribe to the bring the young guys in at any cost but B.Hill > suban and Deboer surely?

 

[purplerunsdeep]

So..... THE WEST IS OURS....?

nope - we were lucky to win - didn't you read the weagles website?

“A dominant three quarters from West Coast was not enough to defeat Fremantle who scored a comfortable 30-point win in Sunday's Derby at Domain Stadium.”

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2015-04-19/eagles-fall-to-freo

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I think for blokes like Taberner a lot of the credit has to go to the development team. It would be pretty unlikely for 18 AFL recruiters to miss a talented player as tall as Taberner is, him coming on is a result of the work that he's done since he got to the club.

Yep.

Start of last year I didn't rate him at all. Couldn't reliably take a mark, got destroyed 1:1 by WAFL defenders. He'll never be a gun KPF but he has really come on and is a great 2nd tall option.

 

[Nickos66]

nope - we were lucky to win - didn't you read the weagles website?

“A dominant three quarters from West Coast was not enough to defeat Fremantle who scored a comfortable 30-point win in Sunday's Derby at Domain Stadium.”

http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2015-04-19/eagles-fall-to-freo

Jeez, that's some LNP level of spin doctoring there.. I saw another headline somewhere from the WCE website along the lines of 'WCE outscore Freo after qtr time'. I guess they've gotta silence the chardy mob anyway they can.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

MdB Plays through the midfield and definitely subbed into the midfield. Suban plays predominantly midfield. Lyon even mentioned him as a midfielder in the presser. I dont subscribe to the bring the young guys in at any cost but B.Hill > suban and Deboer surely?

Walters and Ballantyne also have an occasional run in the midfield.
We can add Duffield and Pavlich too.
It doesn't mean they are our mids and hence aren't relevant to the question I asked.

 

[poshman]

Walters and Ballantyne also have an occasional run in the midfield.
We can add Duffield and Pavlich too.
It doesn't mean they are our mids and hence aren't relevant to the question I asked.

Come on Fred... I would say that Suban this year has played 70% minimum in the midfield group. Pav, walters and balla maybe 15% max.
Duffield has been playing in that midfield group for larger portions and playing off a wing or further up the ground as has been noted in other threads.

Given then that MdB and Suban play mostly in the Midfield group they are well and truly in the discussion.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Come on Fred... I would say that Suban this year has played 70% minimum in the midfield group. Pav, walters and balla maybe 15% max.
Duffield has been playing in that midfield group for larger portions and playing off a wing or further up the ground as has been noted in other threads.

Given then that MdB and Suban play mostly in the Midfield group they are well and truly in the discussion.

You know what I meant.
I was referring to our gun midfield. Mundy, Hil, Barlow, Neale and Fyfe.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

My view:

We had no problems pumping the ball in to our forward 50 for marks and subsequent set shots - it was once the ball went to ground where we struggled

Really highlighted how important someone like Ballantyne is to our team - hell, Pav was even crumbing (especially when Tabs and Clarke were both going for marks - needed some more talk)

 

[poshman]

You know what I meant.
I was referring to our gun midfield. Mundy, Hil, Barlow, Neale and Fyfe.

ok. I suppose my thinking on B.Hill is in the next twenty to thirty games he is likely to be considered in that gun midfield. MdB and Subes i dont think will. To be fair on current form D Pearce is playing like a gun midfielder also, and I although a fan of his effort was hoping to see sutty or someone else transition into his role.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

You know what I meant.
I was referring to our gun midfield. Mundy, Hil, Barlow, Neale and Fyfe.

Who predominantly play close to the bounces.

Suban, MDB, D Pearce, all rotate though here but tend to play further out, as well as rotating through HBF/HFF. That is Brad Hill in a nutshell. He would be an ideal get for any of those players (D Pearce future replacement). However I think our chances of prying a player from Hawthorn, even for a 'play with your brother' option, are minimal.