Fremantle...your opinion after my analysis

deeps

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Posts
5,235
Likes
536
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Thread starter #1
i mean this as a serious question..it may seem like a troll, and if u think it is..then so be it.... The josh carr thread made me post this

Why is it, that so many excellent players come to fremantle and become just good, or not even that. How many talented youngsters come to freo and remain just that...talented youngsters...How many players have moved to another club and become very good?

Fremantle, since joining the competition, have 2 excellent players that they have developed themselves.. Mathew Pavlich, and Paul Hasleby. The rest are merely ok, or were taken from another team.

In the 10 years that fremantle have been in the AFL, they have played one final, which means they have had plenty of early picks. From those early picks, they have produced 2 excellent players, and a handful of decent ones. But for every decent player, there are 5 duds.

So then, you think to yourself... We need that player...the one, that will win us the premiership...or take us to finals footy at least.

So you draft Peter Bell. He plays some good footy, but unfortunately he's used as the "mop" across half back..gathers a tonne of touches, but doesn't relaly hurt the opposition. Stats look good...the fans are satisfied. Come september, they have an extended holiday again.Tony Modra! all we need is a focal point up forward, and we'll win the premiership!Trent Croad...get Trent Croad...he's what we need.... Jeff Farmer!Des Headland will surely make us see AFL finals!Josh Carr!!, Heath Black!!!........the list goes on

They have continoually gone for the quick fix, and failed time and time again.

Is it the Coach? Surely not... Gerard Neesham tried but did a shocking job. Damian Drum sacrficied his job, for the future, and hand picked some good young talent, but in the mean time, managed to lose all but 1 or 2 games.
Then came Chris Connoly... failure again

So it can't be the players, as most of the personell has changed over the 10 years..

It can't be the coach, you've had 3..and they've all failed


So tell me... your HONEST opinion... Do you really believe that the Freo coaching staff, the recruiting staff, the players etc. are doing a good job? What exactly are they doing wrong? Why do they accept such mediocrity?

Fremantle currently are in the middle of a 6 year blueprint for success. 6 years?? Come on... that's mediocre in itself... it took 7 years for the WCE, to win a premiership from the very beginning... it took port 9 years...

Now, for a team that already had infrastructure in place, had a few good players etc. is 6 years really acceptable?

SURELY the time has come, for the supporters to do something instead of accepting this mediocrity...
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

YAKUZA

Club Legend
Suspended
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Posts
1,612
Likes
2
Location
Nornalup
Other Teams
Sunset Coast CLC
#3
deeps said:
Now, for a team that already had infrastructure in place, had a few good players etc. is 6 years really acceptable?

SURELY the time has come, for the supporters to do something instead of accepting this mediocrity...

You were going ok until you got to this point, they never had infrastructure in place well at least adequate infrastructure in terms of personnel particularly non playing. They had inexperienced and non football people running the place who underestimated the huge responsibility of running an AFL Club this combined with a Coach who brought his own people to protect his arse and who was stronger than the CEO the FM and the Recruiting Manager and virtually run the place. The only person in the place with solid AFL experience was Daniher.
What do you suggest the supporters do?
 

masai

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Posts
9,567
Likes
4,923
Location
A bay at Rotto
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Rottnest
#4
In alot of aspects the club is in better shape than 2001. eg. profit, reduction of debt, decent players. That is the good news.

The bad news is the lack of a "gutsy" coaching group, unmotivated "experienced" players, poor media relations (impacts on any cracks), questionable admin decisions lately.

From my view, the club was set up very badly. I'm not good at explaining this but in the beginning a joint board of East + South Freo should have been convened to get the best out of both WAFL clubs (experience, facilities, reduce petty jealousies). From this group could then be added experience footy people (admin, players, businessmen) for their input. Unfortunately as happened our first CEO was a school teacher and Gerard tried to run the club, which he was able to do at WAFL level but at AFL .....

We can bounce back on the playing field, quite easily. Players are told to pull their heads in and go out and do what they are paid for, injured players return and the coaches use good tactics.

That is my 2 cents for the moment, I'll probably think of more later.
 

Borry

Protected Species
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Posts
8,769
Likes
2,134
Location
You never never know if you never never go.
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Sydney
#5
I think it does have a fair bit to do with the personel involved in managing/coaching the club. We had a terrible admin during the 1995-2001 era with the likes of Hatt, Kelly, McLean etc. at the helm. When Neesham was at the helm a lot of our high draft picks were traded away for ageing good players, and there was trading of draft picks at the end of the 02 (to get Headland) and 04 (to get Carr), so we havent unltilised most of our opportunities of the high draft pick choices.


I dont think Freo has had any good coach in their history. Neesham was a great WAFL player and premiership coach, who failed miserably at AFL level. He had a WAFL standard list at his disposal at Freo and it was regarded as one of the worst lists ever assembled in AFL history in 1995. Injuries took their toll during Neeshams peak which prevented any finals chances. Although Neesham got his players to be committed, dedicated and disciplined, he just didnt have the cattle required.

Drum also had a poor list, full of Neesham remainders and new youngsters who were too inexperienced to have an impact in being superstars at their stage of their careers. But by looking at his CV, he played just 60-odd AFL games, never won a flag, never was a star player and the reason he was recruited was purely on the fact that he was touted as the best assistant going around at the end of 1998. He didnt know what it took to make a side successful and a power.

The same could apply to Connolly. he played only 80-odd games in the VFL/AFL for Melbourne, where his career was hampered by two knee re-constructions. Never premiership player, no star, some regarded him as a player with plenty of star potential. He was touted as the best assistant going around at the end of 2001 and being a good mate of Schwabby, he ended up with the Freo job. He has shown that he is at best, an average senior coach who doesnt have the know-how to take the side to a flag or being a very good strong side. It shows when the current list is regarded as the best weve had easily and could be top four material and they are playing with flawed playing styles which cant match it with tough competitive opposition on its day.

As for Allan, well he was a caretaker.

I reckon Freo's coaches in its whole history have been average at best and very inexperienced.

I think this current list of layers is lacking discipline. A lot of the current players are prefering to spend a lot of time during weekends and even weekdays going out partying and drinking, which is not a good image. It may be unfair to blame it on the coach, but maybe they definitely need someone in the coaching.management heiorachy to give these guys a big 'kick up the arse' and make them pull their fingers in. I think this may been a problem during the Drum era and the last year of Neeshams contract.

While the current management at the helm have made some good progress in terms of profits, memberships, crowds at games and the coach has some runs on the board compared to previous coaches, the CEO for example has shown he has a lot of flaws too (eg. been sacked from two previous clubs while doing wonders for them financially and creating an atmosphere where he wants to be with his mates while in buasiness etc.). Freo has already lost three sponsors so far this year including their two major sponsors on their uniforms and they can ill-afford to lose more.
 

anchor man

Club Legend
Joined
Apr 6, 2001
Posts
1,343
Likes
241
Location
Success WA
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Dynamic Dockers &South Fr
#6
YAKUZA said:
You were going ok until you got to this point, they never had infrastructure in place well at least adequate infrastructure in terms of personnel particularly non playing. They had inexperienced and non football people running the place who underestimated the huge responsibility of running an AFL Club this combined with a Coach who brought his own people to protect his arse and who was stronger than the CEO the FM and the Recruiting Manager and virtually run the place. The only person in the place with solid AFL experience was Daniher.
What do you suggest the supporters do?
And who was responsible for hiring these inadequate people?Let me think,could it possibly be the WA football Commission!!Surely not they would not put incompetant people in charge would they,not down at the *B* grade side.No surely not I am being cynical.
 

YAKUZA

Club Legend
Suspended
Joined
Mar 12, 2003
Posts
1,612
Likes
2
Location
Nornalup
Other Teams
Sunset Coast CLC
#7
anchor man said:
And who was responsible for hiring these inadequate people?Let me think,could it possibly be the WA football Commission!!Surely not they would not put incompetant people in charge would they,not down at the *B* grade side.No surely not I am being cynical.
Yep that's a fair comment and what I didn't mention in my original post was that a certain wise man from the East was used as a consultant to assist with the setting up particularly with the player list. Guess who? Cameron Schwab.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Posts
2,078
Likes
4
Location
At Work.
AFL Club
Fremantle
#8
docker_azza said:
The same could apply to Connolly. he played only 80-odd games in the VFL/AFL for Melbourne, where his career was hampered by two knee re-constructions. Never premiership player, no star, some regarded him as a player with plenty of star potential. He was touted as the best assistant going around at the end of 2001 and being a good mate of Schwabby, he ended up with the Freo job. He has shown that he is at best, an average senior coach who doesnt have the know-how to take the side to a flag or being a very good strong side. It shows when the current list is regarded as the best weve had easily and could be top four material and they are playing with flawed playing styles which cant match it with tough competitive opposition on its day.
Didn't Connolly win or come very close to winning a couple of best and fairests?

As to deeps question, while well intentioned, shows a certain Eastern states lack of knowledge. Last year Hadrill was rated by many as one of the best three fullbacks. He towelled up Hall, Fevola, Lloyd and Nietz. He came off the rookie list.

Benny Dixon once said that his toughest opponent ever was Shane Parker. He is, without doubt, the most underrated footballer in the AFL. He's been at Freo since Day 1.

Medhurst is one of the best small forwards in the comp. Has always kicked 40 goals plus in a team that has quite poor delivery from the midfield. If he was at Brisbane he would rank with Bradshaw.

McPharlin has developed under Connolly both here and at Hawthorn. Last year, prior to injury he was being touted as AA.

Farmer attracts way more attention than he deserves for indiscretions from the general morons but is just a phenomenal footballer. Even opposition supporters will have to admit it won't be as entertaining when Jeff is not in the game any longer.
 

ThePope

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Posts
3,478
Likes
125
Location
32º 03'S 115º 45'E
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Fremantle
#10
deeps said:
Why is it, that so many excellent players come to fremantle and become just good, or not even that. How many talented youngsters come to freo and remain just that...talented youngsters...How many players have moved to another club and become very good?
Just because you hear Walls/Sheehan/George/Wally say this doesn't mean it's true.
Farmer had 1 great season at Melbourne, Headland had 1 great second half to a season. Both happened to co-incide with their teams having great years and making the finals.
Of the others, I'd say Bell was equal in his first few years at Freo to what he was at the Roos. Fletcher, Modra (84 goals from 25 matches in a premiership year of 97 for the Cows, 71 goals from 20 matches in his first year at 15th placed Freo), Simmonds, McPharlin (perhaps the best comparison to McPhee... both suffered from injury and youth at their first club, flourished at the second), Cook, M Carr, Kickett, Wills all were equal or improved at Freo compared to there old clubs.

Yes, McPhee, Clement, Croad & Sinclair have done well, but so have Wanganeen (Ess let him go), Mal Michael, Sanderson and a 100 other players who've changed clubs. TLo, Koops, Bandy, Hunter, Harding, Carroll, Callaghan, Delaney, Chisholm and a lot more have been average or duds elsewhere too.
18 players have made their AFL debut under Connolly, and EVERY ONE OF THEM is still on our list! Can any other club make that claim over the past 4 seasons? Sure, probably some will be gone by next year and not all will get top 10 B&F finishes in the next 10 years, but a lot will (and Medhurst and Hayden have already). Surely that must blow the "trades away good players" argument into ancient history.

Polak, Graham
Medhurst, Paul
Siegert, Andrew
Haines, Daniel
Thornton, Scott
Browne, Andrew
Hayden, Roger
Schammer, Byron
Sandilands, Aaron
Webster, Luke
Dunn, Ryley
Gilmore, Daniel
Murphy, Ryan
Dodd, Steven
Johnson, Michael
Mundy, David
Crowley, Ryan
Peake, Brett
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

theferrett

Team Captain
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Posts
462
Likes
7
Location
dockerland.com
Other Teams
Fremantle
#12
Your holiness,
I respect your defence of the FFC, actually I respect most of your posts, however like you, one of the faithfull, what is the problem though. I know it, but we are torn. The club or CC. Do we punishe the club for CC or do we continue to roll and each week and support our football team
 
Joined
May 17, 2005
Posts
2,274
Likes
428
Location
fremantle
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
#13
People always refer to 2001. Sorry we won 14 games in 2003 some by good fortune but we gave our selves every chance and other by very good play.

The bar has risen and sides that were developing below us have gone past us since 2003.
 

jarman

Team Captain
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Posts
309
Likes
0
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Wallabies
#14
theferrett said:
Do we punish the club for CC or do we continue to roll and each week and support our football team
We get rid of CC, start again with a new coach and continue with support of our football club and team. We then hope that things will turn around and we have a team that plays cohesive footy and has a real go.
 

ThePope

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Posts
3,478
Likes
125
Location
32º 03'S 115º 45'E
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Fremantle
#15
theferrett said:
Your holiness, I respect your defence of the FFC, actually I respect most of your posts, however like you, one of the faithfull, what is the problem though. I know it, but we are torn. The club or CC. Do we punishe the club for CC or do we continue to roll and each week and support our football team
You should never punish the club. The club is us. The club is the players. The club is the admin.

I wouldn't say that I've been 100% in defence of the FFC... especially this week. But rather than having a machine gun type attack on everything, mine has been more focused.

Why have we been beaten in the same manner so many times in the past year, why haven't we developed a plan (that is able to be executed by our players) to beat a flood?
Why have we gone from a decent kickout from a point team, to by far the worst team in being able to get the ball out from our defensive 50.
Of course our injuries to key defenders plays a big part in the 2nd question, but I think CC needs to show that he is able to get this team to beat a team man on man and not only be able to play the "uncontested brand" that we are infamous for at the moment.

Jarman... Who.
Having a plan that includes a "hope" stage isn't a plan. We might as well "hope" that things turn our way in the last 9 weeks of this year.
 
Top Bottom