Autopsy Freo almost beat GWS

[westy1]

I had around a dozen Toby Greene mini-me's sitting behind us. Teenage Giant's fans who were calling us spuds every time they scored. It was a striking difference to a Swan's crowd.

Wouldn't be surprised if Giant's fans develop a messed up sense of arrogance as their base develops.

From what I saw yesterday they have no reason to be arrogant
Personally I reckon last year was their chance and they blew it
Cameron is an average coach Lyon pantsed him yesterday in the box
As long as he's at the helm they won't win one IMO
Before too long the draft advantages they have been gifted will diminish and said Young supporters will move on and the giants will really have their work cut out for them to survive and be relevant Sydney
Sad but true

 

[Scham]

I agree but to me it shows that he values quality individuals and Spurr is that. He's given his all to our club and it must be terrible to to have to tell someone their time is up. If Ross's fault is loyalty I can deal with it.

I can't. At the end of the day it's a business and a team game. Everyone comes to the end or sometimes has to be told that they aren't good enough or no longer fit, it has to be done and providing it's done respectfully and with care there's no problem. Other coaches/clubs seem to be able to do it without it being an issue to the team or the individual, Ross needs to too.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

McCarthy was putrid.

What was Mundy doing - touched it 12 times. I hope he wasn't rotating through the mid because thats a very poor effort, even for a high half forward.
Ball movement was some of the best I've seen since Lyon has been at the club. Weller and Tucker are so important to that. Hope those two are on long term deals.

I have loved Mundy from his first AFL season

IMO he is on a downward spiral as his age and the pace of the game is catching up. I'd think he's only got a few seasons left.

Having said that he's still a terrific kick and decision maker and maybe Ross is letting some of the younger guys take more responsibility in the middle.

 

[Scham]

Not sure where to put this so I will put it here.

This was only my second live game of the year and it was great get to see our set up at stoppages and how both teams tried to lock the ball inside their attacking 50's.

I was a quiet critic of bringing B.Hill to Freo. I thought he was soft, average skills and was made to look good by the work of others. I was clearly wrong about that and the fact we got him for pick 23 just makes it even better, he has been brilliant.

It appears that our players are told to get the ball in his hand as often as possible as he is a line breaker and preferred distributor. Seeing him live I was getting quite frustrated with his actual line breaking. I understand he is not a big body but there was 4-5 occasions yesterday that he would take off and after 3-4 steps he would pull up because it seemed contact was inevitable. I put this down to a few possibilities:

1./ Coaches instruction to run the pill as much as possible. If he can't get into a cantor then reload and look for a short option.

2./ He doesn't want to risk giving away a holding the ball free if he is caught while trying to take them on (he isn't built by Fyfe, his strengths are clearly aerobic, not strength).

3./ He is shirking the contest.

From a supporters point of view I am a bit conflicted by this. I want him to back himself and take on the defender. In my eyes he is good enough and quick enough to take them on and win 75% of the time. The flip side of this though would be the 25% of the time he would give the ball away when he wasn't able to win the contest.

But would those odds be better than what is currently happening where he stops, goes back 3-4 steps and then more often than not kicks it backwards or sideways?

I admit I too was a critic of Brad up until this year.

I followed him through colts at WP and he's always been soft and to my amazement the Hawks used him perfectly to get around that weakness and to instead use his strengths to the max. I thought when he came to us he'd be less effective but I was wrong. I love him now. He's still soft and sometimes avoids body contact as you point out but he's much, much better than he used to be and at the end of the day I see his hard gut running for the benefit of the team as courageous. He pushes to levels others wouldn't, surely you got an appreciation of that by seeing the game live?

 

[Lost_Deputy]

From what I saw yesterday they have no reason to be arrogant
Personally I reckon last year was their chance and they blew it
Cameron is an average coach Lyon pantsed him yesterday in the box
As long as he's at the helm they won't win one IMO
Before too long the draft advantages they have been gifted will diminish and said Young supporters will move on and the giants will really have their work cut out for them to survive and be relevant Sydney
Sad but true

They would be a tough team to coach IMO. Not because you won't get wins because of course Cameron will, but tough because of the ego's running around out there. Stevie J, Shaw and Greene a big bogus personalities and would rub off on the Whitfields and the likes. We haven't seen a mob of talent that knows it's own pedigree like this before. I reckon whoever is coaching the Giant's over next 5 years has a bloody hard gig.

 

[Lost_Deputy]

I admit I too was a critic of Brad up until this year.

He pushes to levels others wouldn't, surely you got an appreciation of that by seeing the game live?

I did for sure. I don't think I've seen someone run like him before. He just doesn't stop.

 

[ydraw]

I have loved Mundy from his first AFL season

IMO he is on a downward spiral as his age and the pace of the game is catching up. I'd think he's only got a few seasons left.

Having said that he's still a terrific kick and decision maker and maybe Ross is letting some of the younger guys take more responsibility in the middle.

I think hes still got a few years in him as permanent forward. Hes good overhead and a beatiful kick. If Dale Thomas can do it so can Mundy.

 

[Scham]

From what I saw yesterday they have no reason to be arrogant
Personally I reckon last year was their chance and they blew it
Cameron is an average coach Lyon pantsed him yesterday in the box
As long as he's at the helm they won't win one IMO
Before too long the draft advantages they have been gifted will diminish and said Young supporters will move on and the giants will really have their work cut out for them to survive and be relevant Sydney
Sad but true

Totally agree re Cameron.

Regarding the arrogance, I travel a lot for work and my experience is that in general, regardless of where you are in Australia, and regardless of the level of understanding or knowledge of the game that the person you're talking with is, Freo is disrespected and unliked.

 

[DeanS]

I think hes still got a few years in him as permanent forward. Hes good overhead and a beatiful kick. If Dale Thomas can do it so can Mundy.

He lacks the ability to turn to be a permanent forward. I reckon his job is the distributor off half back where the game is all in front of him.
But he is done as a mid.

 

[dockerfemme]

I have loved Mundy from his first AFL season

IMO he is on a downward spiral as his age and the pace of the game is catching up. I'd think he's only got a few seasons left.

Having said that he's still a terrific kick and decision maker and maybe Ross is letting some of the younger guys take more responsibility in the middle.

His output has dropped off quite a lot in the second half of the season. His first half of the season was very good. Whether his drop off is age related or maybe carrying an injury who knows. I want to see he and Fyfe rotating up forward every match.

 

[Joao]

He lacks the ability to turn to be a permanent forward. I reckon his job is the distributor off half back where the game is all in front of him.
But he is done as a mid.

Probably not quite yet but I think this is coming

Still think he has a role to play until the speed well and truly gets the better of him. At least he is not shouldering as much load now which will make it easier to transition without him.

Still probably the best kick + decision maker combo in our team. Worth hanging on to that for a while.

 

[imperial_oz]

From what I saw yesterday they have no reason to be arrogant
Personally I reckon last year was their chance and they blew it
Cameron is an average coach Lyon pantsed him yesterday in the box
As long as he's at the helm they won't win one IMO
Before too long the draft advantages they have been gifted will diminish and said Young supporters will move on and the giants will really have their work cut out for them to survive and be relevant Sydney
Sad but true

Cameron is an average coach.

The thing that was most evident yesterday is GWS are not a well drilled side but seem to rely on individual brilliance to get up. Compared to Hawthorn, when the ball was in congested play and they got it they would often try to go through the congestion to get forward where the Hawks look for an outside option, which is almost always there. The result was often a stoppage or turnover. Where I say they weren't a well drilled side is they often ignored outside options.

Just on that, we often do the same but due the emphasis on congested football, we generally have fewer outside options.

Had GWS 'done a Hawthorn' and looked for outside options yesterday, I think the result could have been pretty ugly with their firepower. They do have a bit of talent in their ranks

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Totally agree re Cameron.

Regarding the arrogance, I travel a lot for work and my experience is that in general, regardless of where you are in Australia, and regardless of the level of understanding or knowledge of the game that the person you're talking with is, Freo is disrespected and unliked.

Yes unfortunately very true.

At the Swan Districts game Peel is hated for the Freo merger and Freo is just hated because it's a predominantly WC area of Perth.

 

[Outshined]

From what I saw yesterday they have no reason to be arrogant
Personally I reckon last year was their chance and they blew it
Cameron is an average coach Lyon pantsed him yesterday in the box
As long as he's at the helm they won't win one IMO
Before too long the draft advantages they have been gifted will diminish and said Young supporters will move on and the giants will really have their work cut out for them to survive and be relevant Sydney
Sad but true

Call me bitter, but in the long run the GWS venture is going to create a fair few headaches for the AFL. It's ok for the foreseeable future with a squad full of the best players in the country from 2-3 drafts, but one of the great things about our game is that what goes up, must come down. The arrogance of (some) fans will diminish pretty quickly along with their willingness to support 'just' an average AFL team who lose as much as they win. Spoon fed success isn't going to guarantee anything in the future.

 

[Taylor]

GWS could have five first round picks in a row in the 2020 draft after losing four guys on huge money free agency deals.

It is better for them to be 17,18,19,20 & 21 than 3,4,5,6,7

 

[scon]

History suggests the AFL simply continues subsidisation mode if the expansion experiment fails.

 

[meima]

I do hope GWS go down , you need a few crap team around if you want freo to do well . Fact is the introduction of GC and GWS give freo a few easy win in 2012 - 2014.

 

[Yeti]

I admit I too was a critic of Brad up until this year.

I followed him through colts at WP and he's always been soft and to my amazement the Hawks used him perfectly to get around that weakness and to instead use his strengths to the max. I thought when he came to us he'd be less effective but I was wrong. I love him now. He's still soft and sometimes avoids body contact as you point out but he's much, much better than he used to be and at the end of the day I see his hard gut running for the benefit of the team as courageous. He pushes to levels others wouldn't, surely you got an appreciation of that by seeing the game live?

I absoluteness appreciate his gut running. That is something you notice on TV but it is even more obvious live. I certainly don't aim to denigrate his positives, it is more a curious thought point that maybe he could be more effective if he took some higher risk options.

Interesting that he has seemed soft, even playing colts. He has certainly been an effective player for Hawthorn and now it seems like he is taking his game to another level. I guess not everyone should be / can be a contested beast.

 

[yakka man]

I absoluteness appreciate his gut running. That is something you notice on TV but it is even more obvious live. I certainly don't aim to denigrate his positives, it is more a curious thought point that maybe he could be more effective if he took some higher risk options.

Interesting that he has seemed soft, even playing colts. He has certainly been an effective player for Hawthorn and now it seems like he is taking his game to another level. I guess not everyone should be / can be a contested beast.

You hit the nail on the head. We focus too much on contested possession and both Hills should be used primarily on the outside. You need a good balance.

 

[PurpleEyes]

His output has dropped off quite a lot in the second half of the season. His first half of the season was very good. Whether his drop off is age related or maybe carrying an injury who knows. I want to see he and Fyfe rotating up forward every match.

Contested ball winners are not easy to find. Mundy is still currently our 3rd best (after Fyfe and Neale). Blakely (as good as I think he is) still has some development to be as good as Mundy (in terms of inside mids). Just 2 months ago (Round 9 vs Carlton) Mundy had a 28 disposal game including 18 Contested Possessions, 9 Clearances, 6 I50s and 7 Tackles (and this time last year a 44 disposal game including 24 CPs vs Sydney).
I'm still bleeding that we got rid of Barlow, so please let's not rush in to getting rid of Mundy just because of his age.
If Blakely was 5 Contested Possessions a game better and we had another younger inside mid prospect in the wings I would feel a little different but as far as I understand, in 2017 (other than Fyfe, Neale, Mundy) we have been using/developing Walters, S.Hill and Blakely to support our inside mid/contested ball winners.
Unfortunately, out of our current midfielder type young guns coming through, that is, L.Weller, E.Hughes, D.Tucker, E.Langdon, H.Balic and B.Grey, I felt H.Balic showed the greatest potential of being a quality contested ball winning midfielder ... and he's probably gone in 2018 (NB: B.Grey seems to love a contest but doesn't get enough of the ball).

 

[Square Peg]

Great to see Fyfe back to his best

I hope you're wrong, if that is Fyfe back to his best we are overpaying and overrating him.

 

[Taylor]

If he played like that for 12 games a year he will win the brownlow.

 

[BettercallSaul]

I hope you're wrong, if that is Fyfe back to his best we are overpaying and overrating him.

Well I have been wrong before. He made a couple of changers but I thought he moved well and his hands were very good. Would you accept getting back to his best?

 

[Square Peg]

Well I have been wrong before. He made a couple of changers but I thought he moved well and his hands were very good. Would you accept getting back to his best?

Definitely

 

[Square Peg]

Hamling would have to be a smokey for the Doig, I shudder to think what would have happened to us this year without him. Another good game yesterday.