Autopsy Freo defeated by Sydney by less than 100!

[electricfeel]

Our game plan sucks. Our players are crap but not as crap as they really are individually. The flooding of defence and lack of spread means there's no one to kick to and as a result the players have to do short dinky passes that inevitably end up turned over. Sick of seeing nobody in our forward line and the constant bombing in hope because of it. The game plan is s**t and also the players aren't working hard enough. Everyone has packed their bags and is ready to go to Bali soon. Including Ross.

 

[FUS_RO_DAH]

Good to hear, thanks.
My footy watching has become all about the individual efforts/moments this year

I'm hearing ya mate

Fear not. He'll be a very, very good player.

 

[Bicco]

Our game plan sucks. Our players are crap but not as crap as they really are individually. The flooding of defence and lack of spread means there's no one to kick to and as a result the players have to do short dinky passes that inevitably end up turned over. Sick of seeing nobody in our forward line and the constant bombing in hope because of it. The game plan is s**t and also the players aren't working hard enough. Everyone has packed their bags and is ready to go to Bali soon. Including Ross.

The spread thing is really interesting. Watching Footscray, they spread on a 45 degree angle, but they do it cleanly. Our guys seem to run sideways, providing bad options. When we do run forward, our players seem to fill up the space that their team mates should be leading into. Sort of getting each others way and providing no decent options.

 

[Gekko71]

Has anyone noticed how ineffective our tacked are? We seem to tackle the body, leaving the ball and arms free. 95% of the time the opposition gets the ball away, usually effectively.

Yeah - that has bugged me all bloody year! I put that one down squarely to the loss of Brett kirk. Not only that, when our guys were tackled last year, the first thing they did was get their arms free above their heads, but this basic, effective technique has completely dissapeared from our game. The only guys who did it consistently this year was A pearce and Mundy, but Munxy stopped doing it and A Pearce was injured.

I've lost quite a bit of faith in Ross this year. At the end of the day, HE was the one who hired three inexperienced AFL coaches at the end of last year, then decided to go hands off during the pre-season. I have no doubt that he was partially forced into this decision by internal criticisms inside the club... but time has shown it was a horrendously bad move - the parts of our playing system that worked were removed or not reinforced, and the stuff that replaced it has failed to stand up in match situations.

The very first thing that Ross needs to do cut the dead wood from the coaching panel, and put his own personal stamp back on the team. The coaches he hired were nowhere near as good as the ones we lost. David Hale gets a big tick as I'm convinced it was his influence that lifted Tabs output levels this year. Guerra however has to go - IIRC, he was hired specifically to improve the team's kicking... if so, he has failed spectacularly and has made gifted natural kickers like Hill far more error prone. I don't care how good a kick he was as a player, he has failed to teach those skills adequately and our entire team has struggled all year with shocking turnovers as a result.

 

[Scham]

Yeah - that has bugged me all bloody year! I put that one down squarely to the loss of Brett kirk. Not only that, when our guys were tackled last year, the first thing they did was get their arms free above their heads, but this basic, effective technique has completely dissapeared from our game. The only guys who did it consistently this year was A pearce and Mundy, but Munxy stopped doing it and A Pearce was injured.

I've lost quite a bit of faith in Ross this year. At the end of the day, HE was the one who hired three inexperienced AFL coaches at the end of last year, then decided to go hands off during the pre-season. I have no doubt that he was partially forced into this decision by internal criticisms inside the club... but time has shown it was a horrendously bad move - the parts of our playing system that worked were removed or not reinforced, and the stuff that replaced it has failed to stand up in match situations.

The very first thing that Ross needs to do cut the dead wood from the coaching panel, and put his own personal stamp back on the team. The coaches he hired were nowhere near as good as the ones we lost. David Hale gets a big tick as I'm convinced it was his influence that lifted Tabs output levels this year. Guerra however has to go - IIRC, he was hired specifically to improve the team's kicking... if so, he has failed spectacularly and has made gifted natural kickers like Hill far more error prone. I don't care how good a kick he was as a player, he has failed to teach those skills adequately and our entire team has struggled all year with shocking turnovers as a result.

How much input have Hale and Guera actually had though? I don't see them as the main assistants down there. Stone takes the forwards, Prior the defenders. Hale and Guera seem to play a backseat role from what I've seen.

I'm the opposite of you, I think these two need to have more responsibility not less.

And in regards to your points about tackling. The players know how it should be done, they practice it at training regularly, in the past before we got Kirk and since Kirk has left. Has nothing to do with the coaches, nor does the kicking. Players have been kicking since they were 7 years old and have all come through elite programs that have taught disposal execution and tackling technique. They don't just unlearn it because of having a new coach this year. The problem is upstairs.

 

[Ripper]

My footy watching has become all about the individual efforts/moments this year

Yep , I actually thought that Langdon came close to having a "breakout game".

 

[Purpletown]

Unfortunately that was embarrassing but well done Pav for a great career.

 

[mightymouse75]

Pav deserved it so much. The dead wood better light up for the derby. Though there is no redemption from this. Heads plural. Must roll

 

[Proud SJW]

I feel like the 'can't wait for preseason' comment is a real cop out. We should be testing tactics and game plan now. We should have been doing it since the Carlton game. Instead there is no evidence of game plan, no evidence of change in tactics, and it is the players who are wearing the directionless coaching.

Of course we are way short on personnel. But imho that is far more fixable than being short of any coaching nous, which is how we look at the moment.

Everyone's been a bit fixated on that comment, haven't they. Cut it down to the bare bones and he was probably just admitting he's as over this season as anyone else, which would be fair enough given the circumstances. I actually haven't seen him lose it in the coaches box as often as he has this season either, more and more as it goes on - although that might be just me having a bad memory.
In short, I'm thinking we're trying to read more into it than was there.

Then we have those who claim he's getting as bad as Harvey was when it comes to making excuses, which is clearly crap because he isn't, he's saying the same things we are.
There's something else as well... there's been a lot of talk this year about how he was told to back off and leave more to the assistant coaching staff (which I don't know much about), and there's always the possibility he was communicating his opinion on that subject and how well it's worked.


I'm not sure about the testing of new tactics now though. We sort of did at the beginning of the year, then the wheels fell off LTI wise. It's quite possible those plans have been shelved because we don't really want to expose them now that this season is over anyway, which *might* explain going back to the old style at the latter end of this season.

 

[Proud SJW]

...And in regards to your points about tackling. The players know how it should be done, they practice it at training regularly, in the past before we got Kirk and since Kirk has left. Has nothing to do with the coaches, nor does the kicking. Players have been kicking since they were 7 years old and have all come through elite programs that have taught disposal execution and tackling technique. They don't just unlearn it because of having a new coach this year. The problem is upstairs.

I agree with this too. The players have to take some responsibility.
Next question is, how did Melbourne get Jack Watts 2014 to become Jack Watts 2016?

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Langdon was decent and will probably be leaving

We badly need something for him

Where is the Langdon leaving talk coming from?

 

[youmewe]

I agree with this too. The players have to take some responsibility.
Next question is, how did Melbourne get Jack Watts 2014 to become Jack Watts 2016?

A guy named J. Hogan Esq. became the forward line focal point.

 

[salim malik]

Where is the Langdon leaving talk coming from?

From the same place that every other player who hasn't signed a new contract is at.

 

[Proud SJW]

A guy named J. Hogan Esq. became the forward line focal point.

Heh. I'm thinking there's more to it than that, but yeah good point.

 

[imperial_oz]

What upset me most in Lyon's presser was when he was quoting our inside 50 numbers in one of the qtrs. No mention of the quality of the entries, simply happy that we managed 16 entries.

I know his thought is that 'x' amount of inside 50's should equal 'x' amount of shots on goal. But to me that's not a system, there is no structure, rhyme or reason to it. It's simply playing the numbers game, bang it in there enough and we'll score somehow.

We'll never get anywhere with this method. We need forward structures in place to create space, loose forwards and 1v1's. Then the midfield need to learn to lower their eyes and kick to advantage.

Thats not the real issue for me. Watch the games and look forward of the ball. The number of leads that get ignored while the ball is delivered to a contest is unbelievable. Thats the difference between us and Hawthorn. Hawthorn hit their leads.

You are right when you say the forward 50 entries is the problem and the problem starts with our horrible foot skills from the midfield. For a team that spent the preseason working on our skills, we are going backwards faster than Brisbane and thats an awful prospect. The midfield / clearances coaches need to be looked at...critically as does our forward coach. Do the two of them even talk to each other?

The criticism of Lyon in here is justified. The buck stops with him. If his assistant coaches aren't doing the job and they aren't then what is he doing about it? He seems to be a bit lost over the whole business and for me, he has the next preseason to fix it. If he can't, then we should be looking long and hard for alternatives.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Hands on heart answer being sought from everyone on here.
Who believes that Connor Blakely has NOT been doing well this year ?

Coach's media conference post game vs Sydney.
Question " Ross, did you miss Blakely's work around the ball today " ?
Ross Lyon " No, I wouldn't have thought so."

Sheesh. What the hell has this kid done to Ross ?

 

[imperial_oz]

thats always a weird thing. silvagni has always caused problems for franklin.

Silvagni has a go and goes hard at his opponent. Sometimes he has those little brain fades and crosses the line but most of the time, he has a red hot go and keep his opponent honest. The thing that struck me about Silvagni is he always gibes great effort but for a bloke that values great effort, Lyon doesn't seem to even see Silvagni. I'm not sure what the problem is there.

Silva isn't the best defender you'll ever see but he's somebody that the other players could emulate by having a go. Thats the attitude that Lyon should be cultivating in my view but its contrary to his defense, safety first approach. Actually we no longer have that any more as we are pretty easy to score against.

 

[Proud SJW]

Thats not the real issue for me. Watch the games and look forward of the ball. The number of leads that get ignored while the ball is delivered to a contest is unbelievable. Thats the difference between us and Hawthorn. Hawthorn hit their leads.

You are right when you say the forward 50 entries is the problem and the problem starts with our horrible foot skills from the midfield. For a team that spent the preseason working on our skills, we are going backwards faster than Brisbane and thats an awful prospect. The midfield / clearances coaches need to be looked at...critically as does our forward coach. Do the two of them even talk to each other?

The criticism of Lyon in here is justified. The buck stops with him. If his assistant coaches aren't doing the job and they aren't then what is he doing about it? He seems to be a bit lost over the whole business and for me, he has the next preseason to fix it. If he can't, then we should be looking long and hard for alternatives.

Yeah you're right to a degree, but the thing is you can only play the players you have.

Bulldogs are a decent comparison in this regard at the moment, given they've got the same or maybe even worse problems now that we have.
Go watch Beveridge's last couple of press conferences. He's basically saying "well WTF do you want me to do?".
Difference between us and the Dogs is that the media and public understand the problem in their case, but choose to ignore it with ours - largely because the Dogs and Beveridge are both far more "likeable" than us.

Seriously, imagine if Hawthorn lost the same amount/quality of players as us and the Dogs. Do you think Clarkson would be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and keep Hawthorn in the 8? You don't think we'd be seeing a fair bit more of angry Clarko in the pressers after the mounting losses?
Damn straight we would.

Last question. Serious one.
If Clarkson had been coaching Freo right from the start of this season, and Lyon had been coaching Hawthorn, what do you think the relative ladder position differences would be?

 

[Proud SJW]

Hands on heart answer being sought from everyone on here.
Who believes that Connor Blakely hasn't been doing well this year ?

Coach's media conference post game vs Sydney.
Question " Ross, did you miss Blakely's work around the ball today " ?
Ross Lyon " No, I wouldn't have thought so."

Sheesh. What the hell has this kid done to Ross ?

Have to admit, I didn't like that either.
One of the problems I do have with Lyon is his reluctance to give credit where it's due. Seems he doesn't want to single out individual players efforts - probably in the opinion that it would draw away from the "team effort" principle he lives by.
I don't think that's right - in a season where confidence is way down for a variety of reasons, this is the time he needs to be praising the ones who make the effort.

 

[imperial_oz]

Yeah you're right to a degree, but the thing is you can only play the players you have.

Bulldogs are a decent comparison in this regard at the moment, given they've got the same or maybe even worse problems now that we have.
Go watch Beveridge's last couple of press conferences. He's basically saying "well WTF do you want me to do?".
Difference between us and the Dogs is that the media and public understand the problem in their case, but choose to ignore it with ours - largely because the Dogs and Beveridge are both far more "likeable" than us.

Seriously, imagine if Hawthorn lost the same amount/quality of players as us and the Dogs. Do you think Clarkson would be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat and keep Hawthorn in the 8? You don't think we'd be seeing a fair bit more of angry Clarko in the pressers after the mounting losses?
Damn straight we would.

Last question. Serious one.
If Clarkson had been coaching Freo right from the start of this season, and Lyon had been coaching Hawthorn, what do you think the relative ladder position differences would be?

1. Agreed the Bullies have injury issues but their skills are better than ours overall, hence the difference in the relative positions on the ladder

2. Again agreed, if the Hawks had our injury list they would not be anywhere near the top eight.

3. Serious answer. If Clarkson took over this season, I think we may have one maybe 2 extra games...maybe. I say that because we would have a better handle on an attacking game plan but two things mitigate against a huge difference in performance. Injury list obviously and the change of mindset / gameplan is not a simple one step process. Its a gradual process. The difference in ladder positions would be closer but this year Hawks would still be in front.

I actually do rate Clarkson, angry midget and all, as a better coach than Lyon and i think 3 consecutive flags gives some credibility to that argument. He's certainly a better 'attacking' coach

 

[Proud SJW]

3. Serious answer. If Clarkson took over this season, I think we may have one maybe 2 extra games...maybe. I say that because we would have a better handle on an attacking game plan but two things mitigate against a huge difference in performance. Injury list obviously and the change of mindset / gameplan is not a simple one step process. Its a gradual process. The difference in ladder positions would be closer but this year Hawks would still be in front.

I actually do rate Clarkson, angry midget and all, as a better coach than Lyon and i think 3 consecutive flags gives some credibility to that argument. He's certainly a better 'attacking' coach

That's pretty much what I was looking for - I'd say dead on. I'd be even a bit more generous and give him and extra 3-4 (earlier in the season) wins instead of two. Maybe.

 

[WilloTree]

I'm looking forward to that as well.
Although it might be a bit optimistic to be including SPS and Hill at this point. Or McCarthy, for that matter.

Cant use it as an excuse anymore though, the Dogs have similar problems to us and their performance this week at least had some grit to it. Ours didn't.
The injury list does go a long way toward explaining this season in general, but not yesterday's game.

West Coast made a GF last year with 1/2 their backline out.

 

[darkshines]

West Coast made a GF last year with 1/2 their backline out.

Rubbish, biggest fallacy of 2016 that, them being out made them use a unique gameplan that worked, helped them make the GF.

E Mac playing this year, how are they going?

Mitch Brown is fringe and even played as a ruck/fwd this year.

 

[darkshines]

Gotta say, Yarran has some Gunstonesque qualities about him. Like.

 

[E Shed]

Hands on heart answer being sought from everyone on here.
Who believes that Connor Blakely hasn't been doing well this year ?

Coach's media conference post game vs Sydney.
Question " Ross, did you miss Blakely's work around the ball today " ?
Ross Lyon " No, I wouldn't have thought so."

Sheesh. What the hell has this kid done to Ross ?

I think thats because what that question basically means is were you wrong to drop him and naturally he's going to say no.
But yes, would it have killed him to have added something nice for Connor to hang his hat on?