Freo Draft Policy / Methods

[Clay Davis]

Not at all. I assume they have better information than me and a plan that they are working too..

However, as you have that take on things, you must assume you are infallible. It certainly seems so.

No, I am simply airing my opinion. You fail to do so, hiding behind your perceived infallibility of the football department. You have no courage in your convictions. That is your problem.

Personally, I just wish you would STFU. Express an opinion, great. But to go on and on and on ad nauseum is tiresome. We all know your opinon. You write it about 4 or 5 time every f***ing page.

Big deal.

 

[Selggad]

No, I am simply airing my opinion. You fail to do so, hiding behind your perceived infallibility of the football department. You have no courage in your convictions. That is your problem.



Big deal.

Obviously you are a psychologist as well

I express opinons. They are informed and take other factors into consideration. You express fallacies of your own devising. Again and again and again and again. (and again and again and again etc)

Your problem is you are insecure. If anybody disagrees you have to ram your opinon down their throat again and again and again. (and again and again and again etc)

Your problem is that you think you know more than everybody else.

Your problem is that you don't listen to others oppinions

Your problem is also that when proven wrong, your bulls***t and avoid the issue

I could go on for a while like this, but in short, your problem is you are a f***wit

 

[Clay Davis]

Obviously you are a psychologist as well

Nah, but are you?

I express opinons. They are informed and take other factors into consideration. You express fallacies of your own devising. Again and again and again and again. (and again and again and again etc)

Not sure what you mean here. Nothing that I say is fallacious.

Your problem is you are insecure. If anybody disagrees you have to ram your opinon down their throat again and again and again. (and again and again and again etc)

Your problem is that you think you know more than everybody else.

Your problem is that you don't listen to others oppinions

Wait, who is the psychologist again?

Your problem is also that when proven wrong, your bulls***t and avoid the issue

Proven wrong, where?

I could go on for a while like this, but in short, your problem is you are a f***wit

Thanks.

I think my discussion in this thread has been nearly solely focused on football. You keep seeming to want to play the man. Argumentum ad hominem with your argumentum ad verecundiam.

 

[salim malik]

I'm going to side with you on this one. I'm slightly puzzled why we went all softish outside Vic mids this draft. We've failed with regards to drafting them almost as much as we have with talls (the only true success you could rate has been Mundy).

GJ ,My how youve changed your opinion on Mundy,
Didnt you call him a dog and a coward who would eventually get a team mate killed.
That particular piece of dribble showed you have no idea on a players, so called softness.

 

[bruzaar62]

dont bait him Salim.......or he may play the intelligence card again

 

[Clay Davis]

GJ ,My how youve changed your opinion on Mundy,
Didnt you call him a dog and a coward who would eventually get a team mate killed.
That particular piece of dribble showed you have no idea on a players, so called softness.

Oh my, you are so easily confused. Thanks for adding credence to my "Dockerland is smart than Bigfooty" argument.

 

[Nickos66]

TBH, all I keep reading from you is:

Hmmm.. Yes, your posts and feeble opinions are both shallow & pedantic.

 

[Clay Davis]

TBH, all I keep reading from you is:

Maybe you need to read the thread. I've clearly stated what I believe our draft strategy should have been. That has been the majority of my posts. We've had Selgadd playing the man, and that stupid sycophant salim malik mash the keyboard with his paws, toeing the party line.

 

[Freo Blood]

Nah, not really. I've been happy with the past three drafts, didn't complain at all.

This has still been a great trade/draft period, but I haven't been this underwhelmed with an ND since 2006.

Maybe your preference is to finish near bottom and be excited and overwhelmed by high draft picks. See the correlation between 2006 and 2010????

 

[wceblog]

The recruiting trends I’ve noticed by Fremantle in the 2008-2010 drafts (some may have been concious efforts, others may have been just how the cards fell)...

+ Preference for players that do their best work in open space with first selection (Hill, Morabito, Pitt) in ND

+ Preference for players that performed well on agility testing (Hill, Suban, Pitt, Michie, Crichton, Clarke, Ruffles, Houghton) in ND

+ Preference for players with good testing endurance (Fyfe, Houghton, Roberton, Ballantyne, Hall, Clarke, Hill) in ND

+ Body-size doesn’t matter much in ND (Hill, Fyfe, Pitt, Clarke, Crichton, Roberton, Ruffles, Hall all considered skinny recruits)

+ Rookie selections used to select players that have played senior state league football before coming to the club (all 6 players recruited in the last 2 rookie drafts played in their state league competition at senior level before drafted by Freo)

 

[rgauci]

Oh my, you are so easily confused. Thanks for adding credence to my "Dockerland is smart than Bigfooty" argument.

Now you've gone too far. Even a West Coast Eagle supporter can see what we are trying to achieve and how we are going about it. To think you can judge our strategy before the future plays out is stupid. Only time will tell whether this draft strategy results in ultimate success.

Our strategy:

1) Good foot skills
2) Elite endurance
3) Ball carrying ability
4) Good height
5) Good attitude

Train them to apply huge amounts of pressure when the opposition have the ball. Force a turnover. Hurt opposition from turnover with excellent footskills.

We are forming a mouldable team of 185-191cm athletic players who have good footskills. KPP are obviously low on our priority. We are attempting to make bookends out of lowly picks and rookie spots, concentrating our drafting on mid-sized players who are versatile.

You simply cannot judge now whether our strategy will be successful. Viv Michie and Mellington have a lot to like about them. I was cerntainly not underwhelmed by our draft. They are a combination of Fyfe/DeBoer/Mayne/Walters. Michie being more Walters/Fyfe and Mellington DeBoer/Mayne. Sort of opportunistic goal kickers. Can play that defensive forward role. May be able to develop into midfielders. Good size about them. Certainly not KPP but we aren't targetting any.

Pitt was well recognised as one of the best kicks to be drafted. He had a good carnival despite being injured for 2 games (still played). If he develops along the Hill pathway and we have a Hill clone we have hit the jackpot. If he moves along a bit slower so be it. I can see what the club was thinking recruiting another elite kick.

We have inside midfielders, the fact that one had done his knee in 2009 and the other broke his leg in round 14 is bad luck. Mundy was awesome in 2010 as a clearance player but when his 2 sidekicks were gone, late in the season we struggled. They'll be back. Add in the potential inside work of DeBoer and Broughton. I dont think this is an area of need.

BUT I do have the insight to realise i might be wrong, only time will tell.

 

[salim malik]

Maybe you need to read the thread. I've clearly stated what I believe our draft strategy should have been. That has been the majority of my posts. We've had Selgadd playing the man, and that stupid sycophant salim malik mash the keyboard with his paws, toeing the party line.

Being positive about Freo really gets under your skin doesnt it Clay or GJ or JG or who ever the hell you think you are.
Your only agenda is to see Freo fail ,well suck it up sunshine it aint gonna happen.
So you may as well pack up your sad, vitriolic posts and head back and join you fellow losers across town.
Your negativity is now on my ignore list so keep your future insults to yourself.

 

[Selggad]

Now you've gone too far. Even a West Coast Eagle supporter can see what we are trying to achieve and how we are going about it. To think you can judge our strategy before the future plays out is stupid. Only time will tell whether this draft strategy results in ultimate success.

Our strategy:

1) Good foot skills
2) Elite endurance
3) Ball carrying ability
4) Good height
5) Good attitude

Train them to apply huge amounts of pressure when the opposition have the ball. Force a turnover. Hurt opposition from turnover with excellent footskills.

We are forming a mouldable team of 185-191cm athletic players who have good footskills. KPP are obviously low on our priority. We are attempting to make bookends out of lowly picks and rookie spots, concentrating our drafting on mid-sized players who are versatile.

You simply cannot judge now whether our strategy will be successful. Viv Michie and Mellington have a lot to like about them. I was cerntainly not underwhelmed by our draft. They are a combination of Fyfe/DeBoer/Mayne/Walters. Michie being more Walters/Fyfe and Mellington DeBoer/Mayne. Sort of opportunistic goal kickers. Can play that defensive forward role. May be able to develop into midfielders. Good size about them. Certainly not KPP but we aren't targetting any.

Pitt was well recognised as one of the best kicks to be drafted. He had a good carnival despite being injured for 2 games (still played). If he develops along the Hill pathway and we have a Hill clone we have hit the jackpot. If he moves along a bit slower so be it. I can see what the club was thinking recruiting another elite kick.

We have inside midfielders, the fact that one had done his knee in 2009 and the other broke his leg in round 14 is bad luck. Mundy was awesome in 2010 as a clearance player but when his 2 sidekicks were gone, late in the season we struggled. They'll be back. Add in the potential inside work of DeBoer and Broughton. I dont think this is an area of need.

BUT I do have the insight to realise i might be wrong, only time will tell.

Don't waste your time posting something intelligent here Rgauci. It has all been said heaps of times and only provides Clay an opportunity to to rehash his stale old rubbish.

 

[Selggad]

Being positive about Freo really gets under your skin doesnt it Clay or GJ or JG or who ever the hell you think you are.
Your only agenda is to see Freo fail ,well suck it up sunshine it aint gonna happen.
So you may as well pack up your sad, vitriolic posts and head back and join you fellow losers across town.
Your negativity is now on my ignore list so keep your future insults to yourself.

 

[Clay Davis]

Don't waste your time posting something intelligent here Rgauci. It has all been said heaps of times and only provides Clay an opportunity to to rehash his stale old rubbish.

I don't recall you posting anything of the quality rgauci did.

No one's seemed to argue my point of being a team of flankers and journeymen KPPs. Yeah, we'll have precision kickers - but when Pav, McPharlin, and Sandi retire, what will make us any different from (and more importantly, better than) the Western Bulldogs of the past four years?

 

[Lach72]

With Faulks, Silvagni and Anthony, they've been plugging the holes as best as they can with ready to go players.

I think they see something in Sibisado too, and he'll be the CHB of the future, I think.

I don't necessarily agree with your flanker argument.

Mundy, Barlow, Palmer are all inside.

Broughton played a lot on ball near the end of the year, and was very good I thought.
De Boer can run through there, and McPhee and Crowley provide grunt.

In the second half of the year, Morabito also played in the center a bit, using handball very effectively
Fyfe is developing nicely, and with some muscle on him could be anything.

As for Pitt and Michie, they both have the ability to play midfield, and Pitt in particular looks to have the nous to read the packs.
We have the time to let him develop.

 

[hedgehog]

No one's seemed to argue my point of being a team of flankers and journeymen KPPs.

Firstly, to clarify; our KPB stocks look fine. Silvagni has proven himself at AFL level, and we have Faulks, the VFL FB of the year. They look like being joined by Anthony and Monaco, both 192cm+ who can fill the CHB or FB spot in the team. Anthony may be used forward but lets consider him a defenssive option at this stage. And don't forget the 192cm Sibosado, who is more of a rebounding defender than a lock down defender. All the while we still have McPharlin for another couple of years whilst these players develop, and Grover for this year.

Our KPF stocks, on the other hand, don't look so healthy. We have one young player on our list recruited as a true KPF - Houghton. Whilst his progress has been good this year, he's hardly someone to rely upon for the future.

But IMO, Harvey has been constructing a game plan/list management plan that does not require the classical forward positions to be filled. Most players in our 22 are 185cm+, and almost all can play in the midfield. If you break the 22 down into where players play, we seem to have 2/3 KPB's, 1/2 KPF's, 1/2 Ruckmen and everyone else midfielders. Our small defenders Suban Duffield Broughton Mzungu Ibbotson can all play through the midfield if required. Most of our forward line Ballantyne DeBoer Walters Fyfe (Mellington Michie) can play through the midfield.

With the new interchange laws rotations are becoming increasingly neccesary, and Harvey seems to be moving a way from a gameplan which requires the 'classical' forward line positions to be filled. Fyfe is 188cm+ with excellent contested marking skills, and he could play CHF for 5 to 10 minute periods per quarter if needed. Mayne is slightly undersized but he too could play CHF/FF as part of rotations. We have Clarke and Griffen who can push forward for 5 minutes and take FF. Anthony is another who we likely to get who is proven at AFL at FF. At the moment Pavlich is taking one of those KPF spots, and it looks like we have the next 4 or so years to find another true KPF who can mach up on the big bodied defender.

Perhaps Mitch Clark is that man? Of perhaps we'll find someone from the WAFL/VFL. Perhaps our first round draft pick next year? If there were no KPF targets at our pick that we were happy with this year, why should we pick them if there are midfielders of a better standard available?

 

[Clay Davis]

Firstly, to clarify; our KPB stocks look fine. Silvagni has proven himself at AFL level, and we have Faulks, the VFL FB of the year. They look like being joined by Anthony and Monaco, both 192cm+ who can fill the CHB or FB spot in the team. Anthony may be used forward but lets consider him a defenssive option at this stage. And don't forget the 192cm Sibosado, who is more of a rebounding defender than a lock down defender. All the while we still have McPharlin for another couple of years whilst these players develop, and Grover for this year.

I wouldn't say Silvagni has proven himself at being an AFL quality KPD. He has been a handy third tall, but doesn't offer anything like Tarrant or McPharlin. Certainly doesn't have the acceleration off the mark like Grover.

To me it seems we will be replacing a spine that is multiple AA, top 10 draft pick quality with one that is VFL quality, from speculative rookie list picks.

In anyone's view this is a downgrade.

I don't necessarily agree with your flanker argument.

Mundy, Barlow, Palmer are all inside.

This is the problem. Two of our top three quality inside, clearance mids are yet to return to peak form, and aren't guaranteed of ever doing so. One of them may depart at the end of next year (which would be understandable, given his risk of a shortened career).

Some depth in this area would have been great.

In the short term, our weakness is quality mids around the clearances. In the longer term it is KPPs. Can anyone say these needs have been met?

 

[Lach72]

You don't agree that Broughton, Fyfe, Morabito, even Mzungu could address the needs?

The talls are an interesting thing as I think they feel they've addressed the issue, at least in the short term.
The only alternative would have been to go at 20 for a tall...Watson was gone, Tape was gone, Lynch was gone, we'd addressed our need for a ruck, and have Clarke developing in the background.

The other taken talls were McCarthy and Litherland, and only Litherland was available at 44...the other were all left for the rookie draft IIRC.

Be interesting to see what happens in the RD.

Also we have a lot of mids/runners. Next draft do they go tall?

 

[LemmingMaster]

To me it seems we will be replacing a spine that is multiple AA, top 10 draft pick quality with one that is VFL quality, from speculative rookie list picks.

One would say that Collingwood had a very good defensive structure last year and this was created by 3 rookie list upgrades, 2 top ten picks and 1 pick in the 60's.

Maxwell, O'Brien and Toovey were the 3 rookie listed players, it is not always about recruiting top 10 picks to dominate.

Casey could be the Dockers O'Brien, NSOS could be Maxwell and Broughton could be the Toovey.....

I guess you wanted the Dockers to head down the talls path, yet they decided to pick more versatile players. Considering the improvement on the field in 2010, I would say their recruitment department has the correct mechanics to match the style of play designed by Harvey.

Replacing Pavlich and Sandilands will not happen, they are potentially two once in a decade (even longer) styled players, you maybe have to spread the load and use other strengths.

Clarke and Griffen are the Sandilands replacements, Pavlich may be replaced by a more mobile forward line, then again Anthony, Mayne, Fyfe.... might do the job.

The Dockers for all we know did not value some of the talls around their selections and went for best available and 2011 could be the year that a tall they rate drops to their selection.

As others have said, they've added some mature bodies around the developing players. Pitt and co unlike previous years will have time to develop as the Dockers have recruited potentially 4 more mature aged players from the draft.

1. Ruckman - this is to help Sandilands
2. Defender - This is to help replace Tarrant/Grover
3. Running defender/midfielder - This is to potentially allow Broughton to interchange into the midfield and help the inside players.

I remember this board going crazy when Ballantyne was drafted, I am sure they're not regretting that anymore.

 

[Clay Davis]

You don't agree that Broughton, Fyfe, Morabito, even Mzungu could address the needs?

In this, we're sort of replugging players into roles we didn't initially recruit them for. Broughton's a rebounding defender, Fyfe's a floating tall half forward, Morabito's a runner, and Mzungu's an unknown (possibly in the mold of Broughton, maybe Barlow if lucky).

I reckon they can all become clearance mids - but as we've seen with Mundy, it takes a couple of years before they are top line in the role.

If you compare Mundy, who was a flanker, to Palmer - it took Mundy two-three years as an established AFL player to make the transition, whereas Palmer, who had done it all his life, held together the midfield at age 18.

So while I agree that all those players could address those needs in time, it is unlikely they will do so sooner than a draftee who has played in that role most of his life. And before people say you need a top 10 pick draft pick for that, someone like Ryan Bastinac this year was very capable for depth as a clearance mid for North.

The talls are an interesting thing as I think they feel they've addressed the issue, at least in the short term.
The only alternative would have been to go at 20 for a tall...Watson was gone, Tape was gone, Lynch was gone, we'd addressed our need for a ruck, and have Clarke developing in the background.

You're leaving a player out. Highly rated, from WA. Could play next year.

 

[theGav56]

The recruiting trends I’ve noticed by Fremantle in the 2008-2010 drafts (some may have been concious efforts, others may have been just how the cards fell)...

+ Preference for players that do their best work in open space with first selection (Hill, Morabito, Pitt) in ND

+ Preference for players that performed well on agility testing (Hill, Suban, Pitt, Michie, Crichton, Clarke, Ruffles, Houghton) in ND

+ Preference for players with good testing endurance (Fyfe, Houghton, Roberton, Ballantyne, Hall, Clarke, Hill) in ND

+ Body-size doesn’t matter much in ND (Hill, Fyfe, Pitt, Clarke, Crichton, Roberton, Ruffles, Hall all considered skinny recruits)

+ Rookie selections used to select players that have played senior state league football before coming to the club (all 6 players recruited in the last 2 rookie drafts played in their state league competition at senior level before drafted by Freo)

Just on the body size thing, maybe it does matter. Maybe we are going for body types which still have development left in them, preferring Hill to Rich, Pitt to Darling (not necessarily direct comparisons but there was definitely a school of thought to draft players physically ready to play).

 

[Slattery_20]

The fact there's so many new/newish faces (ie last 2-3 drafts) in your best side I think is the bigger point.
Rather than "tall" or "fast" or "from WAFL" or whatever: Freo with Lloyd/Harvey are much, much harsher on list management than anyone's really been before.
If you sit around for 3 years, even if you were reasonably highly rated, you're out the door. If they can't get a pick they'll take a 20yo who's been playing one or other of the state leagues.

Whereas (comparing to WCE) they seem pretty happy with their list, pretty confident Masten/Ebert will eventually get their skills thereabouts.

From my POV, if I was in charge of Essendon right now: the person in all of football I'd chase hardest is Lloyd.

 

[Selggad]

One would say that Collingwood had a very good defensive structure last year and this was created by 3 rookie list upgrades, 2 top ten picks and 1 pick in the 60's.

Maxwell, O'Brien and Toovey were the 3 rookie listed players, it is not always about recruiting top 10 picks to dominate.

Casey could be the Dockers O'Brien, NSOS could be Maxwell and Broughton could be the Toovey.....

I guess you wanted the Dockers to head down the talls path, yet they decided to pick more versatile players. Considering the improvement on the field in 2010, I would say their recruitment department has the correct mechanics to match the style of play designed by Harvey.

Replacing Pavlich and Sandilands will not happen, they are potentially two once in a decade (even longer) styled players, you maybe have to spread the load and use other strengths.

Clarke and Griffen are the Sandilands replacements, Pavlich may be replaced by a more mobile forward line, then again Anthony, Mayne, Fyfe.... might do the job.

The Dockers for all we know did not value some of the talls around their selections and went for best available and 2011 could be the year that a tall they rate drops to their selection.

As others have said, they've added some mature bodies around the developing players. Pitt and co unlike previous years will have time to develop as the Dockers have recruited potentially 4 more mature aged players from the draft.

1. Ruckman - this is to help Sandilands
2. Defender - This is to help replace Tarrant/Grover
3. Running defender/midfielder - This is to potentially allow Broughton to interchange into the midfield and help the inside players.

I remember this board going crazy when Ballantyne was drafted, I am sure they're not regretting that anymore.

There you go Clay. Even a Carlton supporter has a better undertstanding of our list management strategy than you do. Sorry, am I appealing to authority again?

 

[LemmingMaster]

You're leaving a player out. Highly rated, from WA. Could play next year.

Maybe there was something in his game play they did not rate high enough?

They could view his ability to play in a structure poor, leading poor and with the lack of height and combined with the inability to gain separation from the defenders, he may get spoiled too much at AFL level?

I am also unsure if they place any value to his off field indiscretions, but they may have also counted against the kid.

He does bring lovely aggression and intimidation to a forward line, but he may not be much different to Anthony who you're potentially obtaining via the PSD.