Autopsy Freo go down to St Kilda

[couldhavebeen]

I am so angry with our coaches and our poor preseason . The way our players are not moving the ball fast enough .Our team has so many players that still want go 20 metres back from a mark and then kick it sideways thus allowing the opposition to flood back and flood our forward area .
I knew the we were going to be overrun in the last quarter .Its was that obvious that our players were blowing hard 5 minutes into the last quarter and the Saints players were powering home .
To me somebody has to tell Ibbotson that he doesn't need to go back that far from his opponent on the mark .That he must be prepared to dispose of the ball as fast as possible .Every time he took a mark he just takes sooooo long to pass the ball .
Are our coaches blind or don't they realize that the game has changed from stoppages to fast hard running players that destroy static defences with a series of handballs and measured kicks to players in space or if the opposition defenders have left the backdoor open the long kick over their heads into the vacant forward line that fleet footed forwards can run onto .
If I see all our defenders fly for the same ball and not one of them is positioned forward of the pack and one hanging out the back waiting for the crumbs I will scream the house down . The number of times all of our backmen and forwards fly for the same mark is sooo frustrating to watch.
My biggest bug bear at the moment is at stoppages Griffin just knocks the ball down to his feet and then our midfielders have to go in and get pounded by the opposition trying to get the ball out . Teams like Sydney ,Western Bull Dogs ,North Melbourne and Hawthorn have one or 2 midfielders in close the rest of their midfielders stand further out and are ready to pounce on the ball or the opposition midfielders that emerges with the ball .They are not only in attacking positions but defensive positions as well.

 

[FreoBulldog]

Going to be better with another preseason as well

Yeah, hopefully Lachie spends the off season pumping iron with his big brother. If he gets big like Maverick, he could well end up an A grader.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

I am so angry with our coaches and our poor preseason . The way our players are not moving the ball fast enough .Our team has so many players that still want go 20 metres back from a mark and then kick it sideways thus allowing the opposition to flood back and flood our forward area .
I knew the we were going to be overrun in the last quarter .Its was that obvious that our players were blowing hard 5 minutes into the last quarter and the Saints players were powering home .
To me somebody has to tell Ibbotson that he doesn't need to go back that far from his opponent on the mark .That he must be prepared to dispose of the ball as fast as possible .Every time he took a mark he just takes sooooo long to pass the ball .
Are our coaches blind or don't they realize that the game has changed from stoppages to fast hard running players that destroy static defences with a series of handballs and measured kicks to players in space or if the opposition defenders have left the backdoor open the long kick over their heads into the vacant forward line that fleet footed forwards can run onto .
If I see all our defenders fly for the same ball and not one of them is positioned forward of the pack and one hanging out the back waiting for the crumbs I will scream the house down . The number of times all of our backmen and forwards fly for the same mark is sooo frustrating to watch.
My biggest bug bear at the moment is at stoppages Griffin just knocks the ball down to his feet and then our midfielders have to go in and get pounded by the opposition trying to get the ball out . Teams like Sydney ,Western Bull Dogs ,North Melbourne and Hawthorn have one or 2 midfielders in close the rest of their midfielders stand further out and are ready to pounce on the ball or the opposition midfielders that emerges with the ball .They are not only in attacking positions but defensive positions as well.

Nailed it Coulda.

 

[meima]

I am so angry with our coaches and our poor preseason . The way our players are not moving the ball fast enough .Our team has so many players that still want go 20 metres back from a mark and then kick it sideways thus allowing the opposition to flood back and flood our forward area .
I knew the we were going to be overrun in the last quarter .Its was that obvious that our players were blowing hard 5 minutes into the last quarter and the Saints players were powering home .
To me somebody has to tell Ibbotson that he doesn't need to go back that far from his opponent on the mark .That he must be prepared to dispose of the ball as fast as possible .Every time he took a mark he just takes sooooo long to pass the ball .
Are our coaches blind or don't they realize that the game has changed from stoppages to fast hard running players that destroy static defences with a series of handballs and measured kicks to players in space or if the opposition defenders have left the backdoor open the long kick over their heads into the vacant forward line that fleet footed forwards can run onto .
If I see all our defenders fly for the same ball and not one of them is positioned forward of the pack and one hanging out the back waiting for the crumbs I will scream the house down . The number of times all of our backmen and forwards fly for the same mark is sooo frustrating to watch.
My biggest bug bear at the moment is at stoppages Griffin just knocks the ball down to his feet and then our midfielders have to go in and get pounded by the opposition trying to get the ball out . Teams like Sydney ,Western Bull Dogs ,North Melbourne and Hawthorn have one or 2 midfielders in close the rest of their midfielders stand further out and are ready to pounce on the ball or the opposition midfielders that emerges with the ball .They are not only in attacking positions but defensive positions as well.

Coulda you are one of the best.

 

[AAACockburn]

I am so angry with our coaches and our poor preseason . The way our players are not moving the ball fast enough .Our team has so many players that still want go 20 metres back from a mark and then kick it sideways thus allowing the opposition to flood back and flood our forward area .
I knew the we were going to be overrun in the last quarter .Its was that obvious that our players were blowing hard 5 minutes into the last quarter and the Saints players were powering home .
To me somebody has to tell Ibbotson that he doesn't need to go back that far from his opponent on the mark .That he must be prepared to dispose of the ball as fast as possible .Every time he took a mark he just takes sooooo long to pass the ball .
Are our coaches blind or don't they realize that the game has changed from stoppages to fast hard running players that destroy static defences with a series of handballs and measured kicks to players in space or if the opposition defenders have left the backdoor open the long kick over their heads into the vacant forward line that fleet footed forwards can run onto .
If I see all our defenders fly for the same ball and not one of them is positioned forward of the pack and one hanging out the back waiting for the crumbs I will scream the house down . The number of times all of our backmen and forwards fly for the same mark is sooo frustrating to watch.
My biggest bug bear at the moment is at stoppages Griffin just knocks the ball down to his feet and then our midfielders have to go in and get pounded by the opposition trying to get the ball out . Teams like Sydney ,Western Bull Dogs ,North Melbourne and Hawthorn have one or 2 midfielders in close the rest of their midfielders stand further out and are ready to pounce on the ball or the opposition midfielders that emerges with the ball .They are not only in attacking positions but defensive positions as well.

This post needs moving to the melt thread to /thread

 

[Steinfreo]

The final scoreline was ridiculous but apart from that and some inconsistencies with umpiring decisions, I am pretty positive about the game. All of our youngsters played well. Collins did really well on debut against a reasonably good forward line. Blakely backed up last week with another good performance. Weller and Langdon good also imo.

Crozier! Finally! YES!

Tabs! Consistency! YES!

Neale! Superstar! STAY PLEASE!

If I can be bothered I'll check but I am pretty sure there was a clear correlation with Barlow being in the middle and our success on-field. RTB is trolling us taking him out of the middle at times surely?

I thought Sutcliffe today was a massive improvement from earlier in the season. Went @ 90%+ DE (but only 11 disposals, 8 kicks), 7 marks, 8 1%ers. Only one free against.

Loved Mayne's work rate and really liked his creativity at times. Drawing the opponent and running the ball rather than just bombing away. Did it to transition downfield at times and even for Sheridan(?) to kick that great goal from the boundary. I really wish we'd try and run the ball collectively more often. And in fact, be more creative with our ball movement generally.

Reading this it sounds like we didnt just get pumped by a very ordinary Saint Kilda team. Just kidding Iwas happy with the game to.

 

[wayToGo_]

Reading this it sounds like we didnt just get pumped by a very ordinary Saint Kilda team. Just kidding Iwas happy with the game to.

Yeah true I couldn't be bothered talking about the rest of our players that were mostly under par imo. Let the melt thread take care of that

 

[Schauermann]

Pav laid 8, Would be a record for him.

He had 10 earlier this season.

 

[Ysaye]

I am so angry with our coaches and our poor preseason . The way our players are not moving the ball fast enough .Our team has so many players that still want go 20 metres back from a mark and then kick it sideways thus allowing the opposition to flood back and flood our forward area .
I knew the we were going to be overrun in the last quarter .Its was that obvious that our players were blowing hard 5 minutes into the last quarter and the Saints players were powering home .
To me somebody has to tell Ibbotson that he doesn't need to go back that far from his opponent on the mark .That he must be prepared to dispose of the ball as fast as possible .Every time he took a mark he just takes sooooo long to pass the ball .
Are our coaches blind or don't they realize that the game has changed from stoppages to fast hard running players that destroy static defences with a series of handballs and measured kicks to players in space or if the opposition defenders have left the backdoor open the long kick over their heads into the vacant forward line that fleet footed forwards can run onto .
If I see all our defenders fly for the same ball and not one of them is positioned forward of the pack and one hanging out the back waiting for the crumbs I will scream the house down . The number of times all of our backmen and forwards fly for the same mark is sooo frustrating to watch.
My biggest bug bear at the moment is at stoppages Griffin just knocks the ball down to his feet and then our midfielders have to go in and get pounded by the opposition trying to get the ball out . Teams like Sydney ,Western Bull Dogs ,North Melbourne and Hawthorn have one or 2 midfielders in close the rest of their midfielders stand further out and are ready to pounce on the ball or the opposition midfielders that emerges with the ball .They are not only in attacking positions but defensive positions as well.

I honestly think those things are a function of confidence rather than coaching; when players are under pressure they revert to their natural style. Ibbotson is a classic case - the long run up is a problen he has had for a while, and arguably he has been dropped from the team a few times over the last few years for it and then gone away and improved it a bit. We can't drop him at the moment because he is one of the few experienced (semi) talls at the moment, but without players around him who can move the ball quickly and efficiently he starts to have an almost negative impact, particularly in the modified game where dpeed of transition is all important.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

We lost the game because our kids ran out of legs, and our non-existent forward line. Pretty happy with the development our kids showed, and pretty happy to see Barlow work his way into the game. He was pivotal to our 2nd quarter turn-around.

 

[meima]

We lost the game because our kids ran out of legs, and our non-existent forward line. Pretty happy with the development our kids showed, and pretty happy to see Barlow work his way into the game. He was pivotal to our 2nd quarter turn-around.

Is balic the answer for us next season

 

[free at last]

I'm starting to feel Crozier is going to make it now.The move to the back line is looking like a good choice by RTB.For me it feels like crozier adds some much needed flare we've been lacking for ages.
This kid could become a real attacking weapon IMO.

 

[freoextra]

I know where you're coming from. It might have been missed by many, but part of the reason we were run over the last 1/4 was Griff really started to struggle in the middle in the ruck contest and in zoning back. Not helped as the game sped up overall, but yeah, he can't quite put in for a whole game.

Having said that, I just think we have to make do with the one ruck and perhaps work a bit more chop-out from some others. Clarke as you say needs to show a lot more before he should be let anywhere near the first 22 and Hannath will give us very little when not in the ruck, and probably not much there either.

As for Ballas well he's one of a number of seasoned players who's just in awful awful form. Ibbo (got better as the game went on though), Hill (inj.?), Walters (last couple of weeks), Pav (last game or so), Sutty (though he was better today until his injury), Spurr ... we're just carrying too many players that should at least be able to break even. But you can't drop them all. Most we're just going to have let play into form - worked for Mayne, so there's hope.

I liked that you noticed that Ibbo went from worst on field to his old intercept self for a quarter or so. He has always been a little bit slower on the decision making than others but his form has been strange to bizarre. Can only hope he starts to play like he showed in glimpses today because we can't play all the kids at the same time and our defence is our biggest issue at the moment.

 

[wayToGo_]

So I re-watched the first three quarters and had a closer look at our setup at centre bounces. Of those 20 odd bounces Neale was in the middle every single one of them and Hill was in all but one I think. Barlow and Blakely less than half of them each and never at the same time. De Boer started there in the first two but never returned and Walters a couple in the first quarter also but don't think he returned either (he was on the wing at times though). In those periods we were doing well it was either Neale, Hill and Blakely or Neale, Hill and Barlow with the latter of those having a slightly better return but marginal.

But I don't get why Hill was kept there full time as he had only one centre clearance the whole game. Why can't we play both Barlow and Blakely in the middle at the same time? Don't you want your best ball winners in the middle? If our classier deliverers like Hill and Walters were racking up centre clearances fair enough but if not wouldn't it be better to play true inside mids and dominate the centre contest and then release to the outside mids or flankers?

The other thing I noticed was our players on the wings having almost zero impact at centre bounces. Danyle Pearce just seemed to stand around waiting for the ball to come towards him as if by some miracle of nature. Are they told to stay really wide? I just found it quite pointless as even if the ball did come toward them their opposite player was right near them anyway so there was no advantage. I just think playing three inside mids (Neale, Barlow, Blakely) and then using Hill/Walters (and Weller, Sheridan, Crozier) as shallow wingers who can then be a solid outlet might produce more effective clearances. Perhaps play Danyle as a small forward who can still play high to help transition down field?

Hill was second behind Neale (9) in other clearances (with 8) so he's obviously a lot more effective around the ground. But I think that is because he lines up more like an outside mid not an inside one at stoppages. Perhaps playing more outside would also improve Hill's and Walter's DE% and some of those inside 50s would be a little more effective. Is fatigue from more contested work a factor in their kicking skills not being as good as they should?

On a side note, it's only been two good games in a row but Crozier is a B22 lock now imo - best kick on the ground by far yesterday. Really exciting!

 

[freoextra]

So I re-watched the first three quarters and had a closer look at our setup at centre bounces. Of those 20 odd bounces Neale was in the middle every single one of them and Hill was in all but one I think. Barlow and Blakely less than half of them each and never at the same time. De Boer started there in the first two but never returned and Walters a couple in the first quarter also but don't think he returned either (he was on the wing at times though). In those periods we were doing well it was either Neale, Hill and Blakely or Neale, Hill and Barlow with the latter of those having a slightly better return but marginal.

But I don't get why Hill was kept there full time as he had only one centre clearance the whole game. Why can't we play both Barlow and Blakely in the middle at the same time? Don't you want your best ball winners in the middle? If our classier deliverers like Hill and Walters were racking up centre clearances fair enough but if not wouldn't it be better to play true inside mids and dominate the centre contest and then release to the outside mids or flankers?

The other thing I noticed was our players on the wings having almost zero impact at centre bounces. Danyle Pearce just seemed to stand around waiting for the ball to come towards him as if by some miracle of nature. Are they told to stay really wide? I just found it quite pointless as even if the ball did come toward them their opposite player was right near them anyway so there was no advantage. I just think playing three inside mids (Neale, Barlow, Blakely) and then using Hill/Walters (and Weller, Sheridan, Crozier) as shallow wingers who can then be a solid outlet might produce more effective clearances. Perhaps play Danyle as a small forward who can still play high to help transition down field?

Hill was second behind Neale (9) in other clearances (with 8) so he's obviously a lot more effective around the ground. But I think that is because he lines up more like an outside mid not an inside one at stoppages. Perhaps playing more outside would also improve Hill's and Walter's DE% and some of those inside 50s would be a little more effective. Is fatigue from more contested work a factor in their kicking skills not being as good as they should?

On a side note, it's only been two good games in a row but Crozier is a B22 lock now imo - best kick on the ground by far yesterday. Really exciting!

The coach has already said that Blakley is playing Barlow's role and it's not ideal to have them both in the middle due to a lack of speed.

 

[Taylor]

Blakely is quick, I think the issue is that Hill is the most dangerous centre clearance player we have fit and the opposition know it. He is the one they look to limit the impact of when he is in there, so the likes of Blakely and Barlow benefit.

His burst of pace to clear the congestion and deliver 70-80m from the bounce to goal stuffs up everyone's half back interception.

 

[Scham]

So I re-watched the first three quarters and had a closer look at our setup at centre bounces. Of those 20 odd bounces Neale was in the middle every single one of them and Hill was in all but one I think. Barlow and Blakely less than half of them each and never at the same time. De Boer started there in the first two but never returned and Walters a couple in the first quarter also but don't think he returned either (he was on the wing at times though). In those periods we were doing well it was either Neale, Hill and Blakely or Neale, Hill and Barlow with the latter of those having a slightly better return but marginal.

But I don't get why Hill was kept there full time as he had only one centre clearance the whole game. Why can't we play both Barlow and Blakely in the middle at the same time? Don't you want your best ball winners in the middle? If our classier deliverers like Hill and Walters were racking up centre clearances fair enough but if not wouldn't it be better to play true inside mids and dominate the centre contest and then release to the outside mids or flankers?

The other thing I noticed was our players on the wings having almost zero impact at centre bounces. Danyle Pearce just seemed to stand around waiting for the ball to come towards him as if by some miracle of nature. Are they told to stay really wide? I just found it quite pointless as even if the ball did come toward them their opposite player was right near them anyway so there was no advantage. I just think playing three inside mids (Neale, Barlow, Blakely) and then using Hill/Walters (and Weller, Sheridan, Crozier) as shallow wingers who can then be a solid outlet might produce more effective clearances. Perhaps play Danyle as a small forward who can still play high to help transition down field?

Hill was second behind Neale (9) in other clearances (with 8) so he's obviously a lot more effective around the ground. But I think that is because he lines up more like an outside mid not an inside one at stoppages. Perhaps playing more outside would also improve Hill's and Walter's DE% and some of those inside 50s would be a little more effective. Is fatigue from more contested work a factor in their kicking skills not being as good as they should?

On a side note, it's only been two good games in a row but Crozier is a B22 lock now imo - best kick on the ground by far yesterday. Really exciting!

Good post.

I remember Crozier getting a centre clearance, but probably from coming in from the wing or off half back?

Your point about Danyle was one that I noticed on TV. I couldn't believe the amount of times he was standing flat footed about 4 or 5 metres from the contest with an opposition player standing 1m directly in front of him and invariably the Saints player would get it, and under no pressure from Danyle give off a quick handball to either left or right of DP by a metre or two to another Saint running past effectively making DP look like a witches hat and not affecting the play at all. If it happened once it happened 10 times I'm sure!

 

[wayToGo_]

The coach has already said that Blakley is playing Barlow's role and it's not ideal to have them both in the middle due to a lack of speed.

Yeah and I disagree with that thinking. I think Blakely has speed. And more importantly, not much point having speed if you can't win the ball first.

 

[wayToGo_]

I remember Crozier getting a centre clearance, but probably from coming in from the wing or off half back?

Yeah he came from the wing (Danyle's wing ). It was the first time on of our wingers got involved in the centre bounce all game I think and it just worked - hence my suggestion to line up similarly in future with a shallow winger. Funny that it was Crozier of all people to do it - he had another cracker yesterday.

 

[dockerfemme]

Yeah and I disagree with that thinking. I think Blakely has speed. And more importantly, not much point having speed if you can't win the ball first.

I agree with you. I have been pleasantly surprised by Blakely's turn of speed. I am also incredibly frustrated by RTB's approach to Barlow.

As most of us are thinking there are a few positives coming thru now (Tabs, Blakely, Croz, Collins) but I think the coaching group actually need to step up and show that they have got what it takes at least for a match or two. If we finish the season without showing something decent for a whole match or two then I think we are in grave danger of starting 2017 the same way we started 2016. We proved over the summer that you can't make changes in preseason and then flick a switch and expect it all to work in the season proper.

 

[meima]

Thanks all that contribute the match analysis ,as I prefer to watch wafl. There is hope for all this kids after all.

 

[Taylor]

The issue with Barlow in the bounce is that if we turn the ball over at half forward his man can get space on him as the opposition rebound.

If we never failed to hold it inside fifty he would be no issue.

 

[WilloTree]

Actually while the last quarter stank like Defacto's mangina, we took some steps forward.

Weller, Langdon, and Blakely were fantastic as was Taverner bar the last rushed miss.

Champagne comedy.

 

[WilloTree]

+ Gryffindor playing on and running around the man on the mark. Thought he was Wally Matera.
+ Croziers mark of the year contender
+ Blakely

- Played school boy football in the 1st and 4th Q
- Igbo. Just plain awful

 

[Tbonefreo]

D Pearce trying to catch the ball like its a basketball is very frustrating. Open palm out. Hes playing the wrong sport. However that was a very nice pass out of the backline in the 3rd.