Autopsy Freo Owned by Dogs - Rd 19, 2019

GingerDocker

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the kickouts from goal are almost a weathervane of where we're at. The few games this year where we've attacked and really sparkled we've moved the ball long and direct from kick ins. It seems to directly correlate to the confidence of the team in general.
Its the same when they're trying to bring the ball from half back across the centre. When we're on players are running past, offering leads etc, when not you almost can't believe we have 18 players on the field because they've all found somewhere to hide. No one wants it.
Confidence goes a long way in sport.
I agree totally with this, the question that puzzles is why, later in recent seasons, we appear so tentative and confused?
Is it totally down to our injuries? Have the players spent their tickets too early in the season? Are the players all on the same page or is there some level of dissatisfaction re non playing issues (players supposedly leaving in the off season, coaching dramas etc)?

I also worry that there appears to be little leadership in these situations. Centre bounces and kick ins from behinds are two of the only regimented activities in our game and should be the easiest to rectify when not working correctly. It seems our on-field leadership isn't addressing these issues quickly enough, particularly the kick ins...they would have been practiced a thousand times in the pre season, yet we dish that up on Saturday.
 

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Midnite65

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I've read those posts - are they the ones where everybody's suggestions are just hindsight hero posts where you say all the players that we should have drafted?

It is nearly impossible to accurately critique a club because you have NFI about the internal workings. There is so much more to it than list management and you can't see it. So how you think you have done a thorough analysis of it is baffling. So if I were to scrutinise your law firm purely on what I can see from the outside, would that likely tell me everything I need to know about how your firm runs in order to make an objective assessment of its performance?

Also, surely such a credentialed person as yourself knows why you shouldn't need to drop credentials in this argument?

My objective assessment is that the rebuild is about on schedule. We are not drastically ahead or behind but we are 3-4 quality players short. I think we need 2 more drafts or equivalent trading.
Its a results based industry, we have won 30 of our last 90 games and dropped off badly post bye the last 3 years. Time for change.
 

Joao

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If you need to drop credentials, argument is lost. I cant pretend to know whether the rebuild is on track or not but sh*t I am sick of losing.
I don't have the slightest problem with the bolded stance as long as it is portrayed as such. I only have a problem when people are claiming to know details which they couldn't possibly know.

My stance is fairly similar:

I cant pretend to know whether the rebuild is on track or not but it seems reasonable that it would take longer than 4 years and 3 drafts to replace 3/4 of the list.

Its a results based industry, we have won 30 of our last 90 games and dropped off badly post bye the last 3 years. Time for change.
The 30/90 doesn't bother me, but the post bye stuff does. It is the reason why I am on the fence with Ross but do not want him resigned before the end of 2020 (if that is even an option).
 

Bring back Drum

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Something that irked me at the game was the kickouts after a point.
It seemed every kickout went to a player in the pocket, no further up the field & hemmed into one side.
And often that player was Hamling!!!
I even saw Conca take a kickout.
The Dogs had Daniel, probably their second best decision maker with the ball (after the Bont, who it is a joy to watch), yet we seem to have no inspiration when it comes to kickouts.
It was bloody frustrating! :mad::poo:
Again, the funny thing about the kick ins is they had 3 relatively experienced rucks against 1 very inexperienced ruckman.
The baleout kick has to be, that all players know, is to run 10m, kick 55m to the rucks & get as many players to the contest.
The kick to the pocket virtually shuts down one side of the ground as it allows an easy zone defence for the opposition to stop the switch.
The next kick from the pocket is then down the line & opposition teams have already squeezed the zone defence tight to that one side to cover any space that was once there. Just dumb.
When you watch Freo, the ground seems so small with ball in hand compared to the opposition who all seem to have the room to create.
As frustrating as it is for supporters, they must use 360 degree options to create space, but again skill deficiencies has a big say in that!!
 

Scham

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Again, the funny thing about the kick ins is they had 3 relatively experienced rucks against 1 very inexperienced ruckman.
The baleout kick has to be, that all players know, is to run 10m, kick 55m to the rucks & get as many players to the contest.
The kick to the pocket virtually shuts down one side of the ground as it allows an easy zone defence for the opposition to stop the switch.
The next kick from the pocket is then down the line & opposition teams have already squeezed the zone defence tight to that one side to cover any space that was once there. Just dumb.
When you watch Freo, the ground seems so small with ball in hand compared to the opposition who all seem to have the room to create.
As frustrating as it is for supporters, they must use 360 degree options to create space, but again skill deficiencies has a big say in that!!

The smart thing to do when playing 3 rucks vs the opposition only having 1 would be to have a ruck on either side so the opposition doesn't know which side we're going to go and their ruck can only be on one side.
 

PapaJ

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Well who would want someone up forward and the only thing they can apparently do is kick the odd goal.
Never said I don't. I was responding to the difference between Cam being dropped rather than injured, which is suggesting that culpability is with the selection panel. If Cam was good enough, he wouldn't be dropped. Cam should be good enough not to be dropped.

FWIW, no problems with conceding that Cam instead of a ruck might have been better - but the possibility of an extra goal from Cam, who needs silver service and can't add much unless the game is coming to him would have made little to no difference to the outcome.
 

Purpellian Anchor

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Scary thing is our midfield is so slow and can't spread and we may lose BHIll and Langdon.

Our 2021 midfield - Fyfe, Cerra, Brayshaw, Conca, Tucker, Blakely, Valente???

If we lose BHill and Langdon the Fyfe era is officially over. That Neale (2019 Brownlow 🏅) would be pretty handy too 😭

Try---2021 midfield - Kelly, Fyfe, Coniglio, Brayshaw, Conca, Sharp, Taylor, Blakely, Bolton, Valente, Robertson, Henry ???
 

Bring back Drum

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The smart thing to do when playing 3 rucks vs the opposition only having 1 would be to have a ruck on either side so the opposition doesn't know which side we're going to go and their ruck can only be on one side.
That would be the case if you had 2 ruckman who could take a contested mark!!
Also Freos players wouldn’t know what side it was going to which defeats the purpose of getting more numbers to the contest whilst the opposition is zoning.
The ruck option on kick out is really only the baleout kick, ideally your finding an option 40+ out, anywhere on the ground so that a switch is available or ideally you hit the next target in the corridor, with runners pushing forward to perhaps get out the back of the zone or at least break up the zone.
I suppose we’ll have to find someone willing to work hard enough to be that runner! Thought we had them after round 1, turns out we were playing witches hats.
 

Greyhairs

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A sequence of reciprocal cause and effect in which two or more elements intensify and aggravate each other, leading inexorably to a worsening of the situation.

Explanation of a vicious circle!
Seems to me that that is what is somehow happening with the Dockers.
 

RTBF

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3 ruckman, 56-14 hit out win, lose clearance numbers. That sums up Freos coaching atm right there.
I think that's an overly simplistic way to look at it, did we go too tall, maybe but you've got to win the ball to be able to build the ball and we just didn't win the ball. When we didn't win the ball, there was a lot going on and did we get beaten on the spread from stoppage, switch kicks and general play because we had three rucks who have bigger legs which don't move as quickly, possibly, but to say we went too tall is bit simplistic.

Thanks Guys.
 

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RTBF

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3......2......1...and you’re back in the room.
Look, I wouldn't get too excited about securing the services of Coniglio, he's an elite player and while we're always looking for elite players, I understand he's quite close with a number of West Coast players, and he really enjoys the occasional text from Nic Naitainui, so we're in the market for players to improve our football club, but I won't speculate on who is, and isn't coming, I'll just let the cobblers do the cobbling and focus on the controllables, which is what I control, when they can be controlled.
 

salim malik

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Look, I wouldn't get too excited about securing the services of Coniglio, he's an elite player and while we're always looking for elite players, I understand he's quite close with a number of West Coast players, and he really enjoys the occasional text from Nic Naitainui, so we're in the market for players to improve our football club, but I won't speculate on who is, and isn't coming, I'll just let the cobblers do the cobbling and focus on the controllables, which is what I control, when they can be controlled.
Wow this is original , a Ross clone comic:rolleyes:
 

PapaJ

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That would be the case if you had 2 ruckman who could take a contested mark!!
Also Freos players wouldn’t know what side it was going to which defeats the purpose of getting more numbers to the contest whilst the opposition is zoning.
The ruck option on kick out is really only the baleout kick, ideally your finding an option 40+ out, anywhere on the ground so that a switch is available or ideally you hit the next target in the corridor, with runners pushing forward to perhaps get out the back of the zone or at least break up the zone.
I suppose we’ll have to find someone willing to work hard enough to be that runner! Thought we had them after round 1, turns out we were playing witches hats.
Yeah, that's a big problem with our desperation attempt to go tall - which though we all knew was risky, might have worked if up the ground were half decent. Either way, that lack of marking power just makes the 2.5 ruck combo not particularly scary for any oposition.

For all his benfits, not being a strong mark has always been a liability for Sandi. It improved as he developed, but it was such a disappointment to see the ball clang into and out of those hands as often as they did. Darcy has already shown to be a better mark than Sandi and I think it will be a skill we will well appreciate in coming years.


Look, I wouldn't get too excited about securing the services of Coniglio, he's an elite player and while we're always looking for elite players, I understand he's quite close with a number of West Coast players, and he really enjoys the occasional text from Nic Naitainui, so we're in the market for players to improve our football club, but I won't speculate on who is, and isn't coming, I'll just let the cobblers do the cobbling and focus on the controllables, which is what I control, when they can be controlled.
No wonder he's so bloody good.
 
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Billy Bob65

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Commiserations on the loss.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. If you haven't seen a previous post, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.

Overall Summary - 28 Bounces

B.Hill 27 (26w, 1i)
Langdon 20 (18w, 2i)
Mundy 16
Walters 16 (1w)
Fyfe 16
Brayshaw 13 (1w)
Conca 10
Tucker 8 wing
Blakely 5
Cerra 5
Bewley 4 (2w, 2i)

Rucks:
Sandilands 17
Darcy 11

Centre Clearances (as per Champion Data/AFL.com.au
Fyfe 5
B.Hill 2
Cerra 1
Conca 1
Mundy 1
Walters 1
Sandilands 1

1st Half - 18

B.Hill 18 (17w, 1i)
Langdon 16 wing
Mundy 13
Conca 10
Brayshaw 10
Walters 9 (1w)
Fyfe 7
Blakely 5
Bewley 2 wing

Sandilands 11
Darcy 7

2nd Half - 10

B.Hill 9 wing
Fyfe 9
Tucker 8 wing
Walters 7
Cerra 5
Langdon 4 wing
Mundy 3
Brayshaw 3 (2i, 1w)
Bewley 2

Sandilands 6
Darcy 4

Notes:
- 3 distinct rotations for the 7th back - Conca's 10 starts were in Q1, Blakely's 5 were in Q2, Cerra's 5 were spread across the 2nd half (3 & 2)
- Most starts for Cerra in an analysed game since Rd 10, 2018
- Most ever inside starts for Langdon in an analysed game
- First ever inside starts for Bewley in analysed games
- Clearly the preference was to keep Fyfe out of the midfield if possible as he only had 1 start in Q1
- Brayshaw only had 5 starts after Q1
- Mundy didn't have a start in Q4
 

mightymouse75

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Look, I wouldn't get too excited about securing the services of Coniglio, he's an elite player and while we're always looking for elite players, I understand he's quite close with a number of West Coast players, and he really enjoys the occasional text from Nic Naitainui, so we're in the market for players to improve our football club, but I won't speculate on who is, and isn't coming, I'll just let the cobblers do the cobbling and focus on the controllables, which is what I control, when they can be controlled.
Ahh. Ross. Get back to your day job. And try cobbling for once in your life. You think your too good to cobble ?
 

PapaJ

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Thanks for these. If you have them, could you provide the break down for the first quarter? Second quarter?

Cheers, either way.
Below partly answers your request too:

Loved that we played Fyfe forward to begin with. But the midfield we went with. Wtf. Conca, Walters, Brayshaw. Really? Against Bonts, Macrae and Dunkley.
Why isn’t Blakely in there? Nor Cerra? No wonder we got smashed. Hate the fact we cant throw Fyfe forward and not at least break even. He came back into the middle and it was too late.

Tucker. What a start to the season he had. Then like nearly 30 players, his role changed? Huge drop off. So many players have at the same time. I don’t know. Just crap
Short version:
The midfield setup you're complaining about was together only briefly, albeit early in the game. It was abandoned and Fyfe was sent there by the end of the 1st Q and Blakely by the start of the 2nd.

Long version:
I went and looked at the 1st half closely. I think the problem was Mundy and Conca also Langdon on the wing, but that's a story I'll leave to the side.

It seemed Ross figured midfield from last week got the job done, so lets put a big gun forward (Fyfe) and see if they can basically get it done again ... they couldn't.

There were 12 centre bounces in the first qrt, that midfield setup you mentioned was there for 3 of them - all with Darcy too BTW. Every other occasion it was another combo usually involving Mundy (9) and Conca (10). Those two really didn't get it done. Conca couldn't stop Bonts (the person he matched up with the most) and Mundy couldn't get enough clearances himself (2 for the whole game, 1 from centre) which is really his thing and was awful working the other way when control of the contest was lost.

So yeah, it was tactic, but the three you mention weren't in there together that often and weren't really the problem - if Mundy has a clearance game like last week, and Conca played a better defensive game, then it might have actually worked.

BTW, Fyfe finally went in the middle at the end of the 2nd and didn't really leave it - it was becoming obvious that he was needed there, and I agree it should have happened earlier which is basically what you're saying I guess?

The others mentioned - Blakely and Cerra:
1. You're complaining of Brayshaw and want Cerra in there instead or as well? That's a big call, though in fairness he went in there a bit in the 2nd half was OK.
2. Blakely basically played the entire 2nd quarter in the middle and a good deal of the rest of the game too. Conca swapped out and played more back - Conca continued to be pretty poor on closer watching and Blakely did basically OK, though he needs more strength in his body if it's going to be a permanent move.


Some Details:

1st Q:
Brayshaw, Walters, Conca - 3
Brayshaw, Walters, Mundy - 3
Mundy, Walters , Conca - 2 (started the game like this)
Brayshaw, Walters, Mundy - 2
Hill, Conca, Mundy - 1
Fyfe, Conca, Mundy - 1 (finished the quarter like this)

2nd Q:
Mundy, Fyfe, Blakely -3
Brayshaw, Fyfe, Blakely -1
Mundy, Fyfe, Walters -1
 

stax on the mull

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Fyfe copped a big hit early too didn't he. He was sandwiched between two Bulldog players. The one that came across the front of him hit him fairly, probably not intentionally targeting him, but he was flattened on his back and he didn't get up quickly.
 
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