Autopsy Freo Torn A New One By The $wan$

[imperial_oz]

To fix skills were going to have to draft more skilful players.....simple. hawthorn are the supposed leaders in skill "execution" but can you tell me how will langfords going on that count?... what about Ryan dchoenmskers?,billy hsrtung?... an individual player can improve but an averaged skilled player doesn't suddenly become a skilled one thru coaching... we all comment on how better Matt de boer looks now... I'll give you a tip it's the same can't kick Matt de boer he's always been ... difference is he's surround by top 10 talent everywhere .. ie they make him look 'good' ...I want my coach coaching ... not trying to teach players the basic skills of the game they've supposedly been practicing since they under 8s

Well, you saw your coach "coaching" today. How did that work out for you?

For me it was not good enough but I guess i have have higher standards that what you are prepared to accept

 

[LeftFootBanana]

The three telling stats today were:

beaten in contested ball - the other mob gets first use
kicking efficiency 60% - you keep giving the ball back
tackles -15 - you aren't applying pressure to the ball carrier and that's about work rate

You can talk about game plan all you like but with those numbers you aren't going to beat quality opposition too often.

 

[Schauermann]

Just had a quick look at the result before breakfast: Did somebody confound the teams on the scoreboard?

 

[Admiral Byng]

The three telling stats today were:

beaten in contested ball - the other mob gets first use
kicking efficiency 60% - you keep giving the ball back
tackles -15 - you aren't applying pressure to the ball carrier and that's about work rate

You can talk about game plan all you like but with those numbers you aren't going to beat quality opposition too often.

I think it is a bit of both.

We had the look of a team that turned up not thinking they had a chance to win and just went through the motions in the first half. But there was a bit of game plan issues about it too they way we couldn't score when we tried.

 

[Nolo180]

Absolutely shithouse. But atleast rosco switched it up a bit which wouldnt b easy for him.Playing sutcliff at the first centre bounce gives me a good indication on wat rosco thought our chances were.
Theres definantly a few cooked players out there atm.

 

[fnerd]

Well, you saw your coach "coaching" today. How did that work out for you?

For me it was not good enough but I guess i have have higher standards that what you are prepared to accept

Convenient way to by pass a point there turbo..... again you expect Lyon to improve our foot soldiers (Pearce,Suban ,Sutcliffe etc skills?... now they've been in a professional system what 8/9/10 years???.... this isn't under 8's ... otherwise why have line coaches?... but by your reckoning we're paying them (specialist coaches)for nothing...cause apparently it's all on Lyons head...want to criticise fine by me ,mention how he still hasn't orchestrated a consistently functioning fwd line or has been too loyal to club stalwarts in the past But stop carrying on like he's some chess master pulling the players strings.

I'm just prepared to acknowledge when our players don't put in the required effort...lachie Neale had 9 possessions today.9. ...bhill 8...Fyfe had 21 ,shill 21 our next best midfielder was Sutcliffe with 16....think about that for a minute... I suppose Ross "coached" them to get so few of the ball?.

Serious question do the players EVER come under scrutiny from you?... or just Lyon?...

As for standards well I'm just a supporter and accept when we put in a s**t effort from all involved...as in today...what I try not to do is post with continued confirmation bias

 

[fnerd]

The three telling stats today were:

beaten in contested ball - the other mob gets first use
kicking efficiency 60% - you keep giving the ball back
tackles -15 - you aren't applying pressure to the ball carrier and that's about work rate

You can talk about game plan all you like but with those numbers you aren't going to beat quality opposition too often.

so much this.... you can have the most efficient,ingenious game plan in the world but if you can't A. Get your hands on the ball or B. Tackle/defend when you don't,particularly against the best performed team in the AFL of the last 15 rounds /plus last years gf participants against an injury hit young 13th placed side well yeah... you get today's performance

I can except limited footballers getting a run because no one else is left but no effort I can't . Today there was no effort

Oh well it's all about what happens off field for freo than what happens on it...need Lloyd to be at his creative best again this off season cause we still lack for a fair bit of talent in key areas still

 

[Freomaniac]

Well glad I didnt watch this. I went to Noarlunga to Watch South Adelaide take on Woodville West torrens today. My Beloved Souths kicked 20 goals today. Theres 1-2 players I wouldn't mind freo to grab and one of them is a 192cm and 99kg 21 year old tall forward playing for South today. I will post that in the draft forum.

Oh and one last thing, anyone got the Age of the Freo team that was fielded today?

 

[imperial_oz]

Convenient way to by pass a point there turbo..... again you expect Lyon to improve our foot soldiers (Pearce,Suban ,Sutcliffe etc skills?... now they've been in a professional system what 8/9/10 years???.... this isn't under 8's ... otherwise why have line coaches?... but by your reckoning we're paying them (specialist coaches)for nothing...cause apparently it's all on Lyons head...want to criticise fine by me ,mention how he still hasn't orchestrated a consistently functioning fwd line or has been too loyal to club stalwarts in the past But stop carrying on like he's some chess master pulling the players strings.

I'm just prepared to acknowledge when our players don't put in the required effort...lachie Neale had 9 possessions today.9. ...bhill 8...Fyfe had 21 ,shill 21 our next best midfielder was Sutcliffe with 16....think about that for a minute... I suppose Ross "coached" them to get so few of the ball?.

Serious question do the players EVER come under scrutiny from you?... or just Lyon?...

As for standards well I'm just a supporter and accept when we put in a s**t effort from all involved...as in today...what I try not to do is post with continued confirmation bias

You do nothing but post with confirmation bias. If we followed your posting history then Lyon has never done anything wrong.

Do I criticise the players? Well yes I do and have done.

But lets just ignore the patronising tone of your post and the silly little turbo comments and get down to the nitty gritty shall we.

Thats the guy making all the decisions. Those decisions include how we train, what we train, how we prepare, who we select etc.

We train, by Lyon's choice for a congested game. We do not train for an uncongested game. Therefore, effort id rewarded not skills. We get beaten constantly by outside teams like Hawthorn and Sydney and we can have close wins against teams that cannot play an outside game well enough or long enough. Its a losing plan. Our history should tell you that.

However, we make no changes, no adjustments, no acknowledgement of where we are going wrong. All we ever get is things are going to get better if we can dind the right players in the draft. Meanwhile, more effective coaches are taking their teams past us.

Nobody has ever claimed that Lyon is coaching players to get little of the ball. That is an absurd comment. He is however selecting players that cannot justify their selection. When was Ballantyne's last good game? D Pearce? Even Sutcliffe and Suban could not possibly justify their selections on merit.

So, let get to, what does Lyon actually do? What is he responsible for? According to you, its all down the players. So why do we need to pay a million a year for a bloke who is responsible for nothing?

Player selection is deficient. Game Plan is deficient and our structures are deficient. Player preparation is deficient. Thats is all on the head of the coach. All of it. Frankly, if you take the money, you wear the responsibility.

 

[LeftFootBanana]

I'm wondering if Pearce, Ballas, Suban and Sutcliffe didn't play today, who played for Peel that would have taken their place?

 

[Scham]

I'm wondering if Pearce, Ballas, Suban and Sutcliffe didn't play today, who played for Peel that would have taken their place?

There was only 1 player that didn't deserve to be picked and that was Pearce. No way should he've got a game based on his form this year and his pathetic performance last week. Blind Freddy can see he's past it. Nyhuis could've and should've taken his place.

 

[LeftFootBanana]

That's a fair point Scham - Pearce should get 20 years with no parole for the way he murders the footy. Having said that the club may have reasons why they'd rather have Nyhuis playing at Peel at this stage of his development.

We've got plenty of games into the young blokes this year and the ones that have shown something will get another crack at it next year. There will be quite a few older guys who will have their weekends free in 6 months time.

 

[youmewe]

...
Player selection is deficient. Game Plan is deficient and our structures are deficient. Player preparation is deficient. Thats is all on the head of the coach. All of it. Frankly, if you take the money, you wear the responsibility.

I'm waiting for our club president to have his say.

Everybody at the club will surely be quaking in their boots when Dale lets rip.

Here's Dale being physically restrained last time he went off...

 

[DaveLister]

Somewhat of a pattern in our games post our purple patch. decent win -> horrible loss -> loss -> close loss -> repeat. Lose the hunger after finally getting a win

 

[imperial_oz]

I'm waiting for our club president to have his say.

Everybody at the club will surely be quaking in their boots when Dale lets rip.

Here's Dale being physically restrained last time he went off...

View attachment 402978

That was a better weekend than this one

 

[fnerd]

You do nothing but post with confirmation bias. If we followed your posting history then Lyon has never done anything wrong.

Do I criticise the players? Well yes I do and have done.

But lets just ignore the patronising tone of your post and the silly little turbo comments and get down to the nitty gritty shall we.

Thats the guy making all the decisions. Those decisions include how we train, what we train, how we prepare, who we select etc.

We train, by Lyon's choice for a congested game. We do not train for an uncongested game. Therefore, effort id rewarded not skills. We get beaten constantly by outside teams like Hawthorn and Sydney and we can have close wins against teams that cannot play an outside game well enough or long enough. Its a losing plan. Our history should tell you that.

However, we make no changes, no adjustments, no acknowledgement of where we are going wrong. All we ever get is things are going to get better if we can dind the right players in the draft. Meanwhile, more effective coaches are taking their teams past us.

Nobody has ever claimed that Lyon is coaching players to get little of the ball. That is an absurd comment. He is however selecting players that cannot justify their selection. When was Ballantyne's last good game? D Pearce? Even Sutcliffe and Suban could not possibly justify their selections on merit.

So, let get to, what does Lyon actually do? What is he responsible for? According to you, its all down the players. So why do we need to pay a million a year for a bloke who is responsible for nothing?

Player selection is deficient. Game Plan is deficient and our structures are deficient. Player preparation is deficient. Thats is all on the head of the coach. All of it. Frankly, if you take the money, you wear the responsibility.

If you read my post properly instead of frothing you would of seen i said ross still hasnt orchastrated a fproperly functiion fwd line consistently over a number of years now.... i acknowledge personal plays its part there as well.
He also has been too loyal to club stalwarts in the past as i stated
Now lets get into the nitty gritty of it like you say...
A losing plan hey ?.... like in 2012(6th)/13/14/15 hen we made top 4?.... but your right we didnt win the ultimate so must be a losing plan...... especially as we clearly were the most talented side in it...... also besides hawthorn who else won it those years??

Who are these more effective coaches you talk of??........( the ones who are ALSO at the same point in a rebuild phase). So tell me how did you rate our teams performance against an even talented and top 2 side against gws just 2 weeks ago?..at home ...i guess we failed then too because as the 13 placed side we def should of beaten them...lol

The irony of your previous posts were that lyon coaches for effort not skill but instead of focusing on the teams lack of effort today ,which was self evident and worthwhile point- he failed to help get the team 'up' for the contest so yes does inherit some of the blame you carry on a speil about how he should be improving AFL veterans skill levels....laughable ,i also note you failed to address any of my points in regards to this

I agree his selections in the past have been on the conservative side tho this year bar 1 or 2 here or there theyve been as good as can be expected... u carry on about all these players who shouldnt be getting a game but u fail dismally to address who replaces them?..... we have virtually NO ONE LEFT....seriously who from peel would you have brought in to days side ?.... nyhuis for pearce ...collins for who(hes butt average btw in case you havent noticed).....??? Johnson... lol ...seriously enlighten me.

I mentioned the "coaching to get low possessions" part because you were blaming lyon for our midfield obliteration (the main reason ,behind our flogging today)but you still seem to dismiss our supposed a grade mids performances ...instead you blame ,apart from lyon,the usual subans ,sutcliffes and pearce s....yes they wrre s**t but our a graders our leaders other than fyfe were s**t too...any chance of you apportioning some blame to the players who actually drive our team?.....i ll say again l. Neale got 9 possessions today...bhill 8....but let me guess thats ross's and subans fault right?

You are right on one thing tho yep i put more emphasis on the players than the coach...they are after all the ones actually playing the game. One last thing sydney are 11/3 last 14 rounds..best side in the comp over that period..were currently 13th with 1 win out of 5 .that probably deserve some mention

 

[imperial_oz]

If you read my post properly instead of frothing you would of seen i said ross still hasnt orchastrated a fproperly functiion fwd line consistently over a number of years now.... i acknowledge personal plays its part there as well.
He also has been too loyal to club stalwarts in the past as i stated
Now lets get into the nitty gritty of it like you say...
A losing plan hey ?.... like in 2012(6th)/13/14/15 hen we made top 4?.... but your right we didnt win the ultimate so must be a losing plan...... especially as we clearly were the most talented side in it...... also besides hawthorn who else won it those years??

Who are these more effective coaches you talk of??........( the ones who are ALSO at the same point in a rebuild phase). So tell me how did you rate our teams performance against an even talented and top 2 side against gws just 2 weeks ago?..at home ...i guess we failed then too because as the 13 placed side we def should of beaten them...lol

The irony of your previous posts were that lyon coaches for effort not skill but instead of focusing on the teams lack of effort today ,which was self evident and worthwhile point- he failed to help get the team 'up' for the contest so yes does inherit some of the blame you carry on a speil about how he should be improving AFL veterans skill levels....laughable ,i also note you failed to address any of my points in regards to this

I agree his selections in the past have been on the conservative side tho this year bar 1 or 2 here or there theyve been as good as can be expected... u carry on about all these players who shouldnt be getting a game but u fail dismally to address who replaces them?..... we have virtually NO ONE LEFT....seriously who from peel would you have brought in to days side ?.... nyhuis for pearce ...collins for who(hes butt average btw in case you havent noticed).....??? Johnson... lol ...seriously enlighten me.

I mentioned the "coaching to get low possessions" part because you were blaming lyon for our midfield obliteration (the main reason ,behind our flogging today)but you still seem to dismiss our supposed a grade mids performances ...instead you blame ,apart from lyon,the usual subans ,sutcliffes and pearce s....yes they wrre s**t but our a graders our leaders other than fyfe were s**t too...any chance of you apportioning some blame to the players who actually drive our team?.....i ll say again l. Neale got 9 possessions today...bhill 8....but let me guess thats ross's and subans fault right?

You are right on one thing tho yep i put more emphasis on the players than the coach...they are after all the ones actually playing the game. One last thing sydney are 11/3 last 14 rounds..best side in the comp over that period..were currently 13th with 1 win out of 5 .that probably deserve some mention

I can't be bothered responding to too much of that because it would be wasted on you and your only approach is to make up silly things about what I've posted and then claim they are silly

But anyway, more effective coaches.

Well, that would include Clarkson but thats obvious, Longmire, Scott (Geelong variety not the other knobber), Simpson ( and that really hurts but Simspon has outcoached him nearly every game they've gone head to head. I also regard Simpson as a work experience kid but he outperforms Lyon easily), Fagan (outcoached him easily this year and Brisbane is showing signs which is amazing considering their obvious problems).

I think the list of coaches not showing more is likely a shorter list and I'd include Eade (now defunct) and Cameron who should be carving up everybody with his list.

Anyway, go back and read what I actually posted and try the green koolaid for the variety

 

[Marty Whitelaw]

I'm waiting for our club president to have his say.

Everybody at the club will surely be quaking in their boots when Dale lets rip.

Here's Dale being physically restrained last time he went off...

View attachment 402978

He seems an extremely low profile president. Doesn't have to be like Eddie at Collingwood but Wouldn't mind some public comment from time to time.

 

[BStaff17]

That was a disgraceful performance the only positive was i managed to sink about half a dozen beers in the members to try and forget an insipid performance.

 

[Admiral Byng]

It is not one or the other, it is both.

Even if we had turned up with the right attitude and effort today we still had no hope of beating Sydney with our game plan of forcing it into contested footy. If there are teams that we can't beat with out game plan it means the game plan is inadequate.

We have the pool of talent in our younger players now that we can go beyond a game plan that relies on Ross Lyon foot-soldiers. I was beginning to feel confident about the future, felling that out group of young players is the best we've ever had and really looking forward to them developing as a group. I don't think a congested and contested style of footy is the right game style for this group.

 

[youmewe]

He seems an extremely low profile president. Doesn't have to be like Eddie at Collingwood but Wouldn't mind some public comment from time to time.

Twelve months in the job and the only comment he's ever made..."ka-ching, ka-ching".

 

[PapaJ]

Nah, the other midielders need more accountability defensively

We play line a team expecting a 130-120 point game shootout at times

Neale didn't bounce back like a leader either when challenged by Ross, just sulked the game out

I've only closely watched the a bit into the 3rd quarter half, then very distracted last 1/3 or so ... but to that point at least, Neale has been unbelievably awful. Sulking seems about right, maybe injured ??, not sure, but his effort when you catch it off the ball, tackling (lack of, something which was never a thing that comes naturally to him to be fair) and ability to just get in the game. It's like there was some impostor out there because it's very un-Neale like.

 

[DMan 11]

Some fundamentals of Lyons coaching grate me at times....
Contests around the kill me when 3 freo players run in to tackle 1 opponent, leaving 2/3 Sydney players adjacent to the guy getting tackled. Guess what happens next, ball gets flicked out and they waltz it out with ease.
Even when we don't over commit numbers we ball watch so much that opponents just flick it around and waltz around us.

The lack of understanding between mids and forwards when transitioning is face palm worthy. Why the flip was balla's leading to space (that tabs was trying to work into) on multiple occasions has got me beat.... he runs into space demanding a long kick like he's a 6'4 marking monster - why is he given the licence to do this ??? Poor coaching again....

This type of of stuff is what kills me as a supporter. Combine that with the lack of effort today and is was abysmal to watch

Don't get me started on Our 1v1 tackling today - was really poor ......

 

[Midnite65]

I can't be bothered responding to too much of that because it would be wasted on you and your only approach is to make up silly things about what I've posted and then claim they are silly

But anyway, more effective coaches.

Well, that would include Clarkson but thats obvious, Longmire, Scott (Geelong variety not the other knobber), Simpson ( and that really hurts but Simspon has outcoached him nearly every game they've gone head to head. I also regard Simpson as a work experience kid but he outperforms Lyon easily), Fagan (outcoached him easily this year and Brisbane is showing signs which is amazing considering their obvious problems).

I think the list of coaches not showing more is likely a shorter list and I'd include Eade (now defunct) and Cameron who should be carving up everybody with his list.

Anyway, go back and read what I actually posted and try the green koolaid for the variety

Simpson?????Have a look at how he is coaching at the moment, if they didnt have Josh Kennedy they wouldn't be making the 8.

 

[meima]

Simpson?????Have a look at how he is coaching at the moment, if they didnt have Josh Kennedy they wouldn't be making the 8.

They do have Kennedy, no if or but .

Eg if freo had hawthorn list , 3 flag.