Opinion From Debutant to...?

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nameless

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 17, 2006
13,286
19,338
Perf
AFL Club
West Coast
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Arsenal
We currently have 12 players on our senior & rookie list who are yet to debut, plus Lamb (1 game), Karpany (1) and Cole (2), which I feel is very high number for where our list is at.

Obviously solid intel on these blokes is fairly low, but it would interesting to predict how we think some of these blokes will go, and whether we have a few future-champions coming through the ranks.

Inevitably a few will never play, but there are surely a few who are looking like they are a chance as early as next year.

I've done a list of who I think will have the best career to worst.

Daniel Venables - Will be one of our top mids in a few years, spending time forward/midfield, once he gets over his injuries he'll prove why he was taken so high. Hopefully a debut in 2017.

Luke Partington - Had a good year in WAFL last year, found a lot of the ball and will look to continue to improve this year, training well and is filling his body out to be AFL ready. He could become that accumulator that we need.

Tom Cole - Looked good in his 2 games and can see him being a mainstay in our backline once Butler/Wellingham/Hurn move on. Could push for midfield, but might be better suited staying back.

Mathew Allen - A roughie to breakout, I love looking at his stats at Glenelg a few years ago, he's capable of some massive games. Too good for reserves level, hopefully gets a real go at league as West Coast will be looking for a few forwards to be coming through.

Tom Lamb - Appears to be getting serious about his footy this pre-season, has the makings of a great player who could be a dangerous forward. If he continues to work hard he has the potential to be a star player.

Jake Waterman - Will get a lot of opportunity when our forwards start to retire, shown a lot of promise at a young age, with a few issues that can be rectified. Finds a lot of the ball for a forward, fits a need.

Willie Rioli - Could be anything, no doubt will be given a lot of opportunity given our lack of smalls. Has turned his body around and has all the tricks of a typical Rioli, certainly the most exciting, athleticism will restrict him to just the Small Forward role, but could be very good.

Francis Watson - All reports indicate he's got some great skills and offers something different to what we have already. A very dedicated person who will take his chances and make the most of them, I'll back him to be a very good rebounding defender.

Josh Rotham - Early days, but seems a very safe option. Will learn off some excellent players down back and could be looking to replace Schofield as a 3rd tall in a few years.

Malcolm Karpany - Been given a lot of time, 1 game in to his career which was a promising game, but will need to really step it up if he's to survive on the list.

Kurt Mutimer - A lot of reserves last year where he racked it up despite injury. Not sure he's going to make it at AFL level.

Tarir Bayok - A real unknown, can't call how he'll go. Love the skill set he has, but whether he's got what it takes at AFL level is the test. Could be one of the biggest draft steals.

Paddy Brophy - Been given time and had a good year for EP finishing 3rd in B&F, I think others are ahead of him for a likely half-back role however. I hope he gets an opportunity at the top level.

Jordan Snadden - Playing a lot of reserves, will need to really prove himself to get a promotion off the rookie list (and hope for another few injuries perhaps). Think he'll miss out though.

Thomas Gorter - I simply don't know anything about him to make an informed enough opinion of his prospects.

Thoughts?
 
We currently have 12 players on our senior & rookie list who are yet to debut, plus Lamb (1 game), Karpany (1) and Cole (2), which I feel is very high number for where our list is at.

Obviously solid intel on these blokes is fairly low, but it would interesting to predict how we think some of these blokes will go, and whether we have a few future-champions coming through the ranks.

Inevitably a few will never play, but there are surely a few who are looking like they are a chance as early as next year.

I've done a list of who I think will have the best career to worst.

Daniel Venables - Will be one of our top mids in a few years, spending time forward/midfield, once he gets over his injuries he'll prove why he was taken so high. Hopefully a debut in 2017.

Luke Partington - Had a good year in WAFL last year, found a lot of the ball and will look to continue to improve this year, training well and is filling his body out to be AFL ready. He could become that accumulator that we need.

Tom Cole - Looked good in his 2 games and can see him being a mainstay in our backline once Butler/Wellingham/Hurn move on. Could push for midfield, but might be better suited staying back.

Mathew Allen - A roughie to breakout, I love looking at his stats at Glenelg a few years ago, he's capable of some massive games. Too good for reserves level, hopefully gets a real go at league as West Coast will be looking for a few forwards to be coming through.

Tom Lamb - Appears to be getting serious about his footy this pre-season, has the makings of a great player who could be a dangerous forward. If he continues to work hard he has the potential to be a star player.

Jake Waterman - Will get a lot of opportunity when our forwards start to retire, shown a lot of promise at a young age, with a few issues that can be rectified. Finds a lot of the ball for a forward, fits a need.

Willie Rioli - Could be anything, no doubt will be given a lot of opportunity given our lack of smalls. Has turned his body around and has all the tricks of a typical Rioli, certainly the most exciting, athleticism will restrict him to just the Small Forward role, but could be very good.

Francis Watson - All reports indicate he's got some great skills and offers something different to what we have already. A very dedicated person who will take his chances and make the most of them, I'll back him to be a very good rebounding defender.

Josh Rotham - Early days, but seems a very safe option. Will learn off some excellent players down back and could be looking to replace Schofield as a 3rd tall in a few years.

Malcolm Karpany - Been given a lot of time, 1 game in to his career which was a promising game, but will need to really step it up if he's to survive on the list.

Kurt Mutimer - A lot of reserves last year where he racked it up despite injury. Not sure he's going to make it at AFL level.

Tarir Bayok - A real unknown, can't call how he'll go. Love the skill set he has, but whether he's got what it takes at AFL level is the test. Could be one of the biggest draft steals.

Paddy Brophy - Been given time and had a good year for EP finishing 3rd in B&F, I think others are ahead of him for a likely half-back role however. I hope he gets an opportunity at the top level.

Jordan Snadden - Playing a lot of reserves, will need to really prove himself to get a promotion off the rookie list (and hope for another few injuries perhaps). Think he'll miss out though.

Thomas Gorter - I simply don't know anything about him to make an informed enough opinion of his prospects.

Thoughts?
Good stuff, i think you have Lamb a little high but mostly agree.
 

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Good op

12 players without an AFL game plus 3 others with only 1 or 2 would be relatively normal given 7 of those are 2016 recruits and a further 5 are 2015 recruits

You're rankings are about right although Gorter would be above brophy and snadden

Brophy should be last as the only player I'm certain won't play an AFL game - probably won't be the only one from that list but all the others might, brophy won't
 
Good stuff, i think you have Lamb a little high but mostly agree.

I've sort of grouped those 3 forwards together, kind of split the difference that one or two will make it.

Lamb I'm thinking could be a surprise for 2017 based on his pre-season form.
I think a lot of his issues are his application to the game, which he appears to be rectifying.
 
Good op

12 players without an AFL game plus 3 others with only 1 or 2 would be relatively normal given 7 of those are 2016 recruits and a further 5 are 2015 recruits

You're rankings are about right although Gorter would be above brophy and snadden

Brophy should be last as the only player I'm certain won't play an AFL game - probably won't be the only one from that list but all the others might, brophy won't

Yeah I thought 15 players may be a bit above average, but does make sense post-draft.

The bottom 3 I don't think will play, with Bayok an unknown quantity.
 
I've sort of grouped those 3 forwards together, kind of split the difference that one or two will make it.

Lamb I'm thinking could be a surprise for 2017 based on his pre-season form.
I think a lot of his issues are his application to the game, which he appears to be rectifying.
What position is Lamb going to play?
 
We currently have 12 players on our senior & rookie list who are yet to debut, plus Lamb (1 game), Karpany (1) and Cole (2), which I feel is very high number for where our list is at.

Obviously solid intel on these blokes is fairly low, but it would interesting to predict how we think some of these blokes will go, and whether we have a few future-champions coming through the ranks.

Inevitably a few will never play, but there are surely a few who are looking like they are a chance as early as next year.

I've done a list of who I think will have the best career to worst.

Daniel Venables - Will be one of our top mids in a few years, spending time forward/midfield, once he gets over his injuries he'll prove why he was taken so high. Hopefully a debut in 2017.

Luke Partington - Had a good year in WAFL last year, found a lot of the ball and will look to continue to improve this year, training well and is filling his body out to be AFL ready. He could become that accumulator that we need.

Tom Cole - Looked good in his 2 games and can see him being a mainstay in our backline once Butler/Wellingham/Hurn move on. Could push for midfield, but might be better suited staying back.

Mathew Allen - A roughie to breakout, I love looking at his stats at Glenelg a few years ago, he's capable of some massive games. Too good for reserves level, hopefully gets a real go at league as West Coast will be looking for a few forwards to be coming through.

Tom Lamb - Appears to be getting serious about his footy this pre-season, has the makings of a great player who could be a dangerous forward. If he continues to work hard he has the potential to be a star player.

Jake Waterman - Will get a lot of opportunity when our forwards start to retire, shown a lot of promise at a young age, with a few issues that can be rectified. Finds a lot of the ball for a forward, fits a need.

Willie Rioli - Could be anything, no doubt will be given a lot of opportunity given our lack of smalls. Has turned his body around and has all the tricks of a typical Rioli, certainly the most exciting, athleticism will restrict him to just the Small Forward role, but could be very good.

Francis Watson - All reports indicate he's got some great skills and offers something different to what we have already. A very dedicated person who will take his chances and make the most of them, I'll back him to be a very good rebounding defender.

Josh Rotham - Early days, but seems a very safe option. Will learn off some excellent players down back and could be looking to replace Schofield as a 3rd tall in a few years.

Malcolm Karpany - Been given a lot of time, 1 game in to his career which was a promising game, but will need to really step it up if he's to survive on the list.

Kurt Mutimer - A lot of reserves last year where he racked it up despite injury. Not sure he's going to make it at AFL level.

Tarir Bayok - A real unknown, can't call how he'll go. Love the skill set he has, but whether he's got what it takes at AFL level is the test. Could be one of the biggest draft steals.

Paddy Brophy - Been given time and had a good year for EP finishing 3rd in B&F, I think others are ahead of him for a likely half-back role however. I hope he gets an opportunity at the top level.

Jordan Snadden - Playing a lot of reserves, will need to really prove himself to get a promotion off the rookie list (and hope for another few injuries perhaps). Think he'll miss out though.

Thomas Gorter - I simply don't know anything about him to make an informed enough opinion of his prospects.

Thoughts?
Nice write up and I agree with many of your comments. Some thoughts:

1. Tom Lamb will probably not make it as a forward and needs to play in defence. Turning him to a forward feels like our attempts to turning Sheppard into a midfielder - neither look comfortable in those roles and both need the discipline of following a forward to the contest and then performing.

2. Josh Rotham will be a likely contender for an outside mid role. He often played wing in colts and I see him getting an opportunity there for us. I would not call him a safe pick in the draft. He was seen by some in the 20 to 30 range. Depends on how Jetta goes in 2017, Rotham could be a surprise selection this year.

3. Partington's improvement in 2016 was in the second half of the season - saw him struggle a bit early and the EP team poor showing hurt his development. He needs to start dominating WAFL first.

4. Tom Cole - hopefully he gets back into proper training soon as I see him as one of the players that could move ahead of both Butler and Wellingham in defence in 2017. Out of all your names, I would place a fit Cole as getting the most AFL games in 2017 out of all those names.

5. Kurt Mutimer - he started the season late having come off his hamstring problems. Given the limited preseason, I liked his development in the second half of 2016. We are blessed with many options on the HBF so 2017 will be about delivering at EP and putting pressure on the defenders,


Match committee - I believe Simpson has taken on board the criticism about the match committee being too soft and assuming the inconsistent performances of some players (let's just call it the 2016 Le Cras factor) will mean we get more aggressive at the selection table and not just keep backing in players who are not giving 100% each week. That could well mean that this list has a greater chance of getting picked. That said, the next generation as a group did not show the development.

Looking at the AFL.com view of our best 22 - the only young player they seem to rank as being AFL ready for best 22 in 2017 is Barrass.
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Nice write up and I agree with many of your comments. Some thoughts:

1. Tom Lamb will probably not make it as a forward and needs to play in defence. Turning him to a forward feels like our attempts to turning Sheppard into a midfielder - neither look comfortable in those roles and both need the discipline of following a forward to the contest and then performing.

2. Josh Rotham will be a likely contender for an outside mid role. He often played wing in colts and I see him getting an opportunity there for us. I would not call him a safe pick in the draft. He was seen by some in the 20 to 30 range. Depends on how Jetta goes in 2017, Rotham could be a surprise selection this year.

3. Partington's improvement in 2016 was in the second half of the season - saw him struggle a bit early and the EP team poor showing hurt his development. He needs to start dominating WAFL first.

4. Tom Cole - hopefully he gets back into proper training soon as I see him as one of the players that could move ahead of both Butler and Wellingham in defence in 2017. Out of all your names, I would place a fit Cole as getting the most AFL games in 2017 out of all those names.

5. Kurt Mutimer - he started the season late having come off his hamstring problems. Given the limited preseason, I liked his development in the second half of 2016. We are blessed with many options on the HBF so 2017 will be about delivering at EP and putting pressure on the defenders,


Match committee - I believe Simpson has taken on board the criticism about the match committee being too soft and assuming the inconsistent performances of some players (let's just call it the 2016 Le Cras factor) will mean we get more aggressive at the selection table and not just keep backing in players who are not giving 100% each week. That could well mean that this list has a greater chance of getting picked. That said, the next generation as a group did not show the development.

Looking at the AFL.com view of our best 22 - the only young player they seem to rank as being AFL ready for best 22 in 2017 is Barrass.
View attachment 324388
Sheed is still pretty young :)
 

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Sheed is still pretty young :)
True about Sheed. That said, he is usually only picked as an interchange. I believe 2017 will be the year he steps up to be truly in our best team and own a midfield role. This year I expect him to go ahead of Hill, Yeo and Cripps.
 
nameless don't forget Sydney's team had 7 debutants who played a massive part in their season in '16

Very true, I'm looking at who will have the best career of this current lot, as well as impact next year.

But there is certainly a precedent that you can have a lot of players debut and impact in a year.
 
Nice write up and I agree with many of your comments. Some thoughts:

1. Tom Lamb will probably not make it as a forward and needs to play in defence. Turning him to a forward feels like our attempts to turning Sheppard into a midfielder - neither look comfortable in those roles and both need the discipline of following a forward to the contest and then performing.

2. Josh Rotham will be a likely contender for an outside mid role. He often played wing in colts and I see him getting an opportunity there for us. I would not call him a safe pick in the draft. He was seen by some in the 20 to 30 range. Depends on how Jetta goes in 2017, Rotham could be a surprise selection this year.

3. Partington's improvement in 2016 was in the second half of the season - saw him struggle a bit early and the EP team poor showing hurt his development. He needs to start dominating WAFL first.

4. Tom Cole - hopefully he gets back into proper training soon as I see him as one of the players that could move ahead of both Butler and Wellingham in defence in 2017. Out of all your names, I would place a fit Cole as getting the most AFL games in 2017 out of all those names.

5. Kurt Mutimer - he started the season late having come off his hamstring problems. Given the limited preseason, I liked his development in the second half of 2016. We are blessed with many options on the HBF so 2017 will be about delivering at EP and putting pressure on the defenders,


Match committee - I believe Simpson has taken on board the criticism about the match committee being too soft and assuming the inconsistent performances of some players (let's just call it the 2016 Le Cras factor) will mean we get more aggressive at the selection table and not just keep backing in players who are not giving 100% each week. That could well mean that this list has a greater chance of getting picked. That said, the next generation as a group did not show the development.

Looking at the AFL.com view of our best 22 - the only young player they seem to rank as being AFL ready for best 22 in 2017 is Barrass.
View attachment 324388

Interesting take on Lamb, I hadn't considered him as a defensive option.
Always thought he played wing/forward throughout his junior and WAFL career.

What has you thinking he could take a defensive spot?
 
What a wildcard Lamb could be. I really haven't even got him in the mix at all.
 
Can anyone who watched willie rioli during training tell me if hes got any cyril traits ie fast agile evasive.

Or is he more like mark lecras or josh hill? I just want some fast traits but Its hard to see it cos he was fat before.
 
Can anyone who watched willie rioli during training tell me if hes got any cyril traits ie fast agile evasive.

Or is he more like mark lecras or josh hill? I just want some fast traits but Its hard to see it cos he was fat before.
He's not fast like Jetta for example

I'd describe him as nimble - changes direction well and moves nicely in congestion. Quick movements

Endurance might be an issue as well and probably his biggest hurdle to getting a round 1 debut
 
Can anyone who watched willie rioli during training tell me if hes got any cyril traits ie fast agile evasive.

Or is he more like mark lecras or josh hill? I just want some fast traits but Its hard to see it cos he was fat before.

Willie is every bit a Rioli.
Very similar to Cyril except with more pudding which means he's slower and not AFL fit bit is much harder to move off the ball.
Easily the best crumbing goal sneak on our list.
 
Slower than Jetta but faster than Priddis
Probably describes 43 players on our list

In a straight sprint I'd think Jetta would be quickest

Priddis would out run Mitchell and Giles
 

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