Frustration

[mcuzzy]

Some (most) of the posts in this thread are ******* pathetic.

I'm going to bed, I suggest some of you do too.

agreed!

GO TIGES!

 

[tigs2010]

FFS it was Essendon, the team that lost to Brisbane

EFA.

 

[gaelictiogar]

30 years of shit... And it doesn't look like its gonna stop anytime soon.

I'm not frustrated so much as resigned to it. We fall short against finals class opposition. Why? Because we are not good enough.

Still at least we are not Melbourne !!!

 

[peternorth]

Have our collective expectations perhaps placed our psyche in an unrealistic place?

 

[gaelictiogar]

Have our collective expectations perhaps placed our psyche in an unrealistic place?

No.

We just want to win like everyone else does and we look at our top 3 or 4 names - all genuine elites - and get a bit star struck forgetting that a lot of the supporting cast are mid ladder makeweights. Recent season Carlton's have been exactly where we are. Star mids masking deficiency all over the park.

 

[peternorth]

No.

We just want to win like everyone else does and we look at our top 3 or 4 names - all genuine elites - and get a bit star struck forgetting that a lot of the supporting cast are mid ladder makeweights. Recent season Carlton's have been exactly where we are. Star mids masking deficiency all over the park.

valid point.

i propose this then.

baby steps. in recent years we havent been able to knock off carlton and st kilda. this year we have.
next year take a scalp of another bogey team (freo).
year after rinse and repeat

 

[velona]

I was frustrated as well last night..

Now that it has passed somewhat my feeling is that we are just not good enough yet. So let stop aiming on just scraping in to finals this year and continue on the rebuild.

I don't want to see players that aren't going to tale us to a prem in the side anymore, I want to see astbury come in to defence, griffiths into the forward line, dea and arnot into the middle and helbig onto a wing for the rest of the season. Let's see what they've got with an extended stint in their preferred positions. I'd also like so see Elton and our first year players get some games against weaker opposition so we can start getting them ready for senior footy.

I don't want to see shortcuts in the team any more. There are players who have shown they are not capable of taking us to the next level Nahas, Jackson, Grigg, McGuane I don't want to see these players playing in the firsts any more.

I think we should also consider retiring King, Newman and Tuck at seasons end. They still do add some value to the team but will not be around for our next period of success and we need to start finding their replacements now.

We should also consider moving hardwick to director of football and bringing someone else in as a tactician and game day coach.

 

[Boston tiger]

I was frustrated as well last night..

Now that it has passed somewhat my feeling is that we are just not good enough yet. So let stop aiming on just scraping in to finals this year and continue on the rebuild.

I don't want to see players that aren't going to tale us to a prem in the side anymore, I want to see astbury come in to defence, griffiths into the forward line, dea and arnot into the middle and helbig onto a wing for the rest of the season. Let's see what they've got with an extended stint in their preferred positions. I'd also like so see Elton and our first year players get some games against weaker opposition so we can start getting them ready for senior footy.

I don't want to see shortcuts in the team any more. There are players who have shown they are not capable of taking us to the next level Nahas, Jackson, Grigg, McGuane I don't want to see these players playing in the firsts any more.

I think we should also consider retiring King, Newman and Tuck at seasons end. They still do add some value to the team but will not be around for our next period of success and we need to start finding their replacements now.

We should also consider moving hardwick to director of football and bringing someone else in as a tactician and game day coach.

I would be quite comfortable with that. We've waited along time and I can wait some more if we are getting it right.

 

[Tigerland]

I was frustrated as well last night..

Now that it has passed somewhat my feeling is that we are just not good enough yet. So let stop aiming on just scraping in to finals this year and continue on the rebuild.

I don't want to see players that aren't going to tale us to a prem in the side anymore, I want to see astbury come in to defence, griffiths into the forward line, dea and arnot into the middle and helbig onto a wing for the rest of the season. Let's see what they've got with an extended stint in their preferred positions. I'd also like so see Elton and our first year players get some games against weaker opposition so we can start getting them ready for senior footy.

I don't want to see shortcuts in the team any more. There are players who have shown they are not capable of taking us to the next level Nahas, Jackson, Grigg, McGuane I don't want to see these players playing in the firsts any more.

I think we should also consider retiring King, Newman and Tuck at seasons end. They still do add some value to the team but will not be around for our next period of success and we need to start finding their replacements now.

We should also consider moving hardwick to director of football and bringing someone else in as a tactician and game day coach.

Can't see that happening. If he goes it is out the door.
Wonder if Paul Roos would look at the Tigers.

Agree with the retirements - although out of them Newman could still offer something.

 

[Nostradumbass]

valid point.

i propose this then.

baby steps. in recent years we havent been able to knock off carlton and st kilda. this year we have.
next year take a scalp of another bogey team (freo).
year after rinse and repeat

Isn't that great a scalp considering Footscray beat them last night.

 

[peternorth]

Isn't that great a scalp considering Footscray beat them last night.

and gold coast suns 17 beat footscray. doesnt matter one iota.

every team has bogey teams. we have to get over ours.

 

[Terry Tan]

It's time to face reality. So far we are a middle of the road team with an average coach. The way things are shaping, we will finish 9-12th.

Unless we LIFT OUR GAME! It's time to LIFT NOW.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

• Kick ins - we are too lazy. Players don't run hard enough and create an option so we have to resort to either chipping it sideways or bombing it to a contest. Run harder boys, even if you don't get the ball, be a decoy and drag a defender to create space for others!
• Midfield - so much talent but so often gets exposed against the stronger teams. Not sure if this is a mental issue or clearance/coaching issue but something needs to happen as we constantly go to sleep for a period of time against the strong teams and let 4-5 goals to get piled on effectively ending the contest.
• Lazy in defence. When the ball is turned over, too many players aren't busting a gut to get back and help out the backline. Too many players are eager to break forward but not enough have the same mindset for defending.
• Too many poor users of the ball. We constantly overcook the ball or make sloppy handballs that put ourselves under pressure or lead to a turnover. To move forward, we simply need better skills. It says something about the rest of the team when Jackson is our leading disposal winner.
• Forward structure. This is still an issue from 2012, why hasn't it been resolved. We still resort to bombing it in. I think Ryder dropped back and took at least 4-5 intercept marks. We need to be smarter, quality is better than quantity. Having inside 50s is irrelevant unless we can convert those onto the scoreboard.
• Coaching. We really seem to lack any back up plan once the gameplan starts to struggle.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

• Kick ins - we are too lazy. Players don't run hard enough and create an option so we have to resort to either chipping it sideways or bombing it to a contest. Run harder boys, even if you don't get the ball, be a decoy and drag a defender to create space for others!
• Midfield - so much talent but so often gets exposed against the stronger teams. Not sure if this is a mental issue or clearance/coaching issue but something needs to happen as we constantly go to sleep for a period of time against the strong teams and let 4-5 goals to get piled on effectively ending the contest.
• Lazy in defence. When the ball is turned over, too many players aren't busting a gut to get back and help out the backline. Too many players are eager to break forward but not enough have the same mindset for defending.
• Too many poor users of the ball. We constantly overcook the ball or make sloppy handballs that put ourselves under pressure or lead to a turnover. To move forward, we simply need better skills. It says something about the rest of the team when Jackson is our leading disposal winner.
• Forward structure. This is still an issue from 2012, why hasn't it been resolved. We still resort to bombing it in. I think Ryder dropped back and took at least 4-5 intercept marks. We need to be smarter, quality is better than quantity. Having inside 50s is irrelevant unless we can convert those onto the scoreboard.
• Coaching. We really seem to lack any back up plan once the gameplan starts to struggle.

Great summary.

 

[peternorth]

im frustrated with dimmas post game presser. lots of
- credit to essendon, their pressure
- not good enough
- work on a few things
- didnt play well enough

sounded like michael clarkes
- batters gotta bat well
- bowlers gotta bowl well
- working hard in the nets

 

[Mr Magic]

• Kick ins - we are too lazy. Players don't run hard enough and create an option so we have to resort to either chipping it sideways or bombing it to a contest. Run harder boys, even if you don't get the ball, be a decoy and drag a defender to create space for others!
• Midfield - so much talent but so often gets exposed against the stronger teams. Not sure if this is a mental issue or clearance/coaching issue but something needs to happen as we constantly go to sleep for a period of time against the strong teams and let 4-5 goals to get piled on effectively ending the contest.
• Lazy in defence. When the ball is turned over, too many players aren't busting a gut to get back and help out the backline. Too many players are eager to break forward but not enough have the same mindset for defending.
• Too many poor users of the ball. We constantly overcook the ball or make sloppy handballs that put ourselves under pressure or lead to a turnover. To move forward, we simply need better skills. It says something about the rest of the team when Jackson is our leading disposal winner.
• Forward structure. This is still an issue from 2012, why hasn't it been resolved. We still resort to bombing it in. I think Ryder dropped back and took at least 4-5 intercept marks. We need to be smarter, quality is better than quantity. Having inside 50s is irrelevant unless we can convert those onto the scoreboard.
• Coaching. We really seem to lack any back up plan once the gameplan starts to struggle.

you know what this means, we need to improve our talent and depth

 

[spark12]

im frustrated with dimmas post game presser. lots of
- credit to essendon, their pressure
- not good enough
- work on a few things
- didnt play well enough

sounded like michael clarkes
- batters gotta bat well
- bowlers gotta bowl well
- working hard in the nets

You forgot one, we will go over the video and see if we can rectify it. lol .

 

[Strawbs]

I was frustrated as well last night..

Now that it has passed somewhat my feeling is that we are just not good enough yet. So let stop aiming on just scraping in to finals this year and continue on the rebuild.

I don't want to see players that aren't going to tale us to a prem in the side anymore, I want to see astbury come in to defence, griffiths into the forward line, dea and arnot into the middle and helbig onto a wing for the rest of the season. Let's see what they've got with an extended stint in their preferred positions. I'd also like so see Elton and our first year players get some games against weaker opposition so we can start getting them ready for senior footy.

I don't want to see shortcuts in the team any more. There are players who have shown they are not capable of taking us to the next level Nahas, Jackson, Grigg, McGuane I don't want to see these players playing in the firsts any more.

I think we should also consider retiring King, Newman and Tuck at seasons end. They still do add some value to the team but will not be around for our next period of success and we need to start finding their replacements now.

We should also consider moving hardwick to director of football and bringing someone else in as a tactician and game day coach.

It's a tricky one. They play all those youngsters (which I'm not averse to trying) people want the coach's head on a platter when we get flogged, finish 13th etc. We play the harder bodies with more experience but well known deficiencies, people want the coach's head on a platter. Feels to me as though we don't want to throw some of those younger blokes with immature bodies to the wolves at this stage so we have to continue to play a few older blokes who aren't quite up to it. Hoping that's the theory anyway. Elton, McBean etc are promising but probably not quite ready - long term investments.

 

[Neen]

• Kick ins - we are too lazy. Players don't run hard enough and create an option so we have to resort to either chipping it sideways or bombing it to a contest. Run harder boys, even if you don't get the ball, be a decoy and drag a defender to create space for others!
• Midfield - so much talent but so often gets exposed against the stronger teams. Not sure if this is a mental issue or clearance/coaching issue but something needs to happen as we constantly go to sleep for a period of time against the strong teams and let 4-5 goals to get piled on effectively ending the contest.
• Lazy in defence. When the ball is turned over, too many players aren't busting a gut to get back and help out the backline. Too many players are eager to break forward but not enough have the same mindset for defending.
• Too many poor users of the ball. We constantly overcook the ball or make sloppy handballs that put ourselves under pressure or lead to a turnover. To move forward, we simply need better skills. It says something about the rest of the team when Jackson is our leading disposal winner.
• Forward structure. This is still an issue from 2012, why hasn't it been resolved. We still resort to bombing it in. I think Ryder dropped back and took at least 4-5 intercept marks. We need to be smarter, quality is better than quantity. Having inside 50s is irrelevant unless we can convert those onto the scoreboard.
• Coaching. We really seem to lack any back up plan once the gameplan starts to struggle.

I agree with all of the above - Well said

Most of the above can be fixed with intensity. We were flat against Melbourne and didn't put them to the sword. We started well against Essendon and then fell flat, We were lucky to have a brief sniff at the 15 minute mark of the last quarter IF the ball didn't hit the post.

Attitudes amongst the group really annoy me when we lose ! Stop the media crap until we play some decent footy.

Painfully obvious that most of the problems can be fixed at training. During the warm-up on Saturday, Cotch missed every shot at goal to his right. From 35m - 50m dead in front. He carried that through to the game. Inaccuracy is a problem. So how about leading straight instead of the pockets ? How about attacking the corridor so that the mids can hit leading forwards ? Tactically, the coaches box are static. Nothing is tried with effectiveness. The entire club looks like it is scared to take a bold step forwards in case they fail. This is evident on the field. Not one player took the game on and broke the lines or took risks. Just chip the ball around, and then the mistake will be on the shoulders of the next player - self preservation which leads to selfish football.

The match committee need to change their criteria for picking THE BEST team possible rather than the coach's FAVORITES. An example of Tuck was made twice in the last 3 seasons, yet there are 2 or 3 players who are regularly picked and need to spend time at Coburg. "Disposal Efficiency" means nothing if the team are kicking to unmarked teammates who are behind or beside you.

 

[prodigy1311]

W

I agree with all of the above - Well said

Most of the above can be fixed with intensity. We were flat against Melbourne and didn't put them to the sword. We started well against Essendon and then fell flat, We were lucky to have a brief sniff at the 15 minute mark of the last quarter IF the ball didn't hit the post.

Attitudes amongst the group really annoy me when we lose ! Stop the media crap until we play some decent footy.

Painfully obvious that most of the problems can be fixed at training. During the warm-up on Saturday, Cotch missed every shot at goal to his right. From 35m - 50m dead in front. He carried that through to the game. Inaccuracy is a problem. So how about leading straight instead of the pockets ? How about attacking the corridor so that the mids can hit leading forwards ? Tactically, the coaches box are static. Nothing is tried with effectiveness. The entire club looks like it is scared to take a bold step forwards in case they fail. This is evident on the field. Not one player took the game on and broke the lines or took risks. Just chip the ball around, and then the mistake will be on the shoulders of the next player - self preservation which leads to selfish football.

The match committee need to change their criteria for picking THE BEST team possible rather than the coach's FAVORITES. An example of Tuck was made twice in the last 3 seasons, yet there are 2 or 3 players who are regularly picked and need to spend time at Coburg. "Disposal Efficiency" means nothing if the team are kicking to unmarked teammates who are behind or beside you.

Well said - To many errors, turnovers from some in the leadership group..!. Dimma has no Plan B, Cotch needs to learn a few tricks from Jobe (he was brilliant), Lids needs a plan B when tagged heavily..!

It's not the loss hat hurts, its the lack of intensity & passion on the big stage. Watching jacko dancing around with the ball reminded me of my nephew at auskick..!

Let's hope we come back hard and get over the line against the eagles..! go tiges

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Yep, definitely think the biggest issue at the moment is mental. Attitude, desire, hunger and work ethic. We seems to generally lack in all those areas whether it be laying tackles, running hard to create space or getting back to pick up opposition players when we turn the ball over.

For whatever reason, we just don't seem to have the desperation and urgency in games. We play our best stuff (IMO) when we move the ball quickly on the spread but this year (and especially in the last few weeks) we seem to try and control the ball, move it slow and end up getting pinned in the backhalf (which ultimately leads to a turnover). Not only that, but playing a slower style lets our opponents to set up defensively which makes it harder to get the ball forward (which I reckon is part of the reason we bomb it into the 50 as we struggle to breakdown other teams' structures - especially the stronger teams).

The midfield IMO is the biggest concern at the moment. There is a lot of talented players in there but for whatever reason, we just don't seem to perform as a unit consistently. The last few weeks, we seem to have 1,2 or 3 guys having huge games and the rest more or less plodding along. That's all well and good when you win but against the best teams, you need everyone to bring their best which we haven't done this season. We might be feeling the pinch with so many of the best 22 mids being injured (Conca, Tuck, Ellis and I would throw in Knights as a rotating mid) but even with injuries, I would have thought you could still coach the group how to punish other teams on the offence (which we can do) but also defend when momentum shifts to the other team. It's usually only a 10 or so min when we fall asleep and our opponents really take control of the game. If we can coach/grow out of those lapses, we will be a much better side IMO. I'm hoping that is just a maturity thing with a predominantly young group and not some kind of cultural thing.

 

[velona]

Yep, definitely think the biggest issue at the moment is mental. Attitude, desire, hunger and work ethic. We seems to generally lack in all those areas whether it be laying tackles, running hard to create space or getting back to pick up opposition players when we turn the ball over.
....
....

Yes, agreed I've been thinking about this a little lately. I remember two seasons ago when we were getting flogged like Melbourne are these days, after a flogging the boys(riewoldt,deledio,vickery) would roll out the line "yeah we got flogged but we are young/inexperienced/rebuilding/etc/etc".. "the boys are keeping positive. The morale is great at training, we have a great group, lots of fun, practical jokers etc etc etc." I remember this really irking me back then. How could they be positive, and have great morale and be joking I remember thinking. People on here were really worried about morale and seemed to be happy to hear these reports.. I annoyed the hell out of me.

Basically I think they are still in this mode. They think they are just going out to play a game of footy on the weekend and that the process is more important than the result. Its the old, its not the scoreboard that counts, its that you put in your best effort and had fun... *#*#* that is my though process. In the majority I get the feeling that they just aren't competitive animals. All these years of "rebuild upon rebuild" , "we'll make finals in 2012 then 2014, then 2016 etc etc" is just exacerbating the problem.

Cotchin, King, Morris, Vlaustin, White don't seem to be afflicted with this disease and play to win, and some of our new recruits Maric, chaplin came with the right attitude, but there are a bunch of players some of them senior players like Deledio, Riewoldt, Newman, McGuane, Vickery, Grigg, Houli who don't seem to have that desperation to win the game. When they aren't playing particularly well rather than bust a gut to get in the game with effort, tackling and run they just go anonymous and disappear.

Carlton had this same problem, and it took Judd coming in and dragging that team out of mediocrity. We need something similar, a player or a coach at his prime, a winner with leadership credentials to come in and give everyone a wake up call drag them into a different mentality. I hope this can be cotchin but I fear it has to be someone from outside the club.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Yes, agreed I've been thinking about this a little lately. I remember two seasons ago when we were getting flogged like Melbourne are these days, after a flogging the boys(riewoldt,deledio,vickery) would roll out the line "yeah we got flogged but we are young/inexperienced/rebuilding/etc/etc".. "the boys are keeping positive. The morale is great at training, we have a great group, lots of fun, practical jokers etc etc etc." I remember this really irking me back then. How could they be positive, and have great morale and be joking I remember thinking. People on here were really worried about morale and seemed to be happy to hear these reports.. I annoyed the hell out of me.

Basically I think they are still in this mode. They think they are just going out to play a game of footy on the weekend and that the process is more important than the result. Its the old, its not the scoreboard that counts, its that you put in your best effort and had fun... *#*#* that is my though process. In the majority I get the feeling that they just aren't competitive animals. All these years of "rebuild upon rebuild" , "we'll make finals in 2012 then 2014, then 2016 etc etc" is just exacerbating the problem.

Cotchin, King, Morris, Vlaustin, White don't seem to be afflicted with this disease and play to win, and some of our new recruits Maric, chaplin came with the right attitude, but there are a bunch of players some of them senior players like Deledio, Riewoldt, Newman, McGuane, Vickery, Grigg, Houli who don't seem to have that desperation to win the game. When they aren't playing particularly well rather than bust a gut to get in the game with effort, tackling and run they just go anonymous and disappear.

Carlton had this same problem, and it took Judd coming in and dragging that team out of mediocrity. We need something similar, a player or a coach at his prime, a winner with leadership credentials to come in and give everyone a wake up call drag them into a different mentality. I hope this can be cotchin but I fear it has to be someone from outside the club.

Yep, great post and I agree with you velona.

I don't want to go overboard with the criticism as we are still sitting quite well on the ladder and are well placed to push for finals. I think the main frustration for me is where last year we pushed and gallantly went down to some of the stronger teams, this year we seem to have gone a step backwards and are being totally outclassed for prolonged periods and on the scoreboard. For mine, knowing how well we can actually play and then seeing how poorly we actually play against the stronger teams is the worst bit. If we play to our best, we can and should push any team in the competition but unfortunately we haven't seen that enough this year - our best 2 wins so far are probably against Port and the Dogs but beating up the teams we should be beating isn't really a sign of progress.

I'm still confident we can make the 8 and that our best is yet to come. I'm hoping we can get a big win somewhere (tonight would be ideal) and then use that as a platform to go on a nice run of wins to get us into finals calculations. We've played ugly stuff mainly so far and still come out 5-4 (which is probably about what most of us would have expected from our first 9 games before the season). Winning ugly isn't great but it shows our progress when our stars don't need to have huge games to get us up.

I hope the players can bring some hunger and aggression to their game as I think we lack both. I think the biggest issue is the mindset, not enough accountable players playing with the urgency and desparation that only a few in the team seem to show. It seems a few of the players are confident we will make the finals and everything will take care of itself when the reality is, they need to fight harder than they have in the past to try and put us on top of the chasing pack. There are no handouts, you need to fight tooth and nail to get into the 8 especially this year with such an even spread of teams.

Hopefully we can take a leaf out of North's book and come out blowing fire tonight after a disappointing loss last week and some media criticism.