full forwards

[Slattery_20]

In the 40's and 50's. Gun

Who did you vote for?

Other clubs were playing footy back then, even if yours wasn't.

I voted for Dunstall off that list: as good as Lockett worked harder and achieved a hella lot more than him or Ablett.

I know, however, I'm in no position whatsoever to judge who was 'the greatest' and I'm certain that list is not the best field.

Draw any generic, arbitrary line you want: Coleman deserves inclusion into that field.
One of our club's greatest 3 or 4 players.

 

[mondaysxpert]

Gordon Coventry is clearly the most prolific goal kicker in league history. In eighteen seasons he played 306 games, a club record that stood for sixty years. Coventry kicked more than 100 goals against every VFL club with the exception of Footscray. He won Collingwoods goal kicking 16 times and the VFL goal kicking 6 times. In thirteen consecutive seasons he kicked 50 goals or more and was the first man to kick more than 100 goals in a season. Gordon Coventry played a huge part in Collingwood's record four consecutive Premierships(1927,28,29,30) and for every season he played he would nearly always produce something extrodinary that would etch its way into the record books.

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~basiced3/footy/legends/nuts.html

But here's the problem with comparing players from different era's


Gordon Coventry was 183cm tall


One of the greatest ruckmen of all time in John Nicholls was 188cm


So for me Coventry is the greatest full forward pre modern era and Lockett is the greatest modern era full forward based purely on goals kicked.. I'd still probably have Dunstall for practical reasons but those are the two guys that kicked the most goals ever

Lockett 1360 goals
Coventry 1299 goals

 

[Slattery_20]

Gordon Coventry is clearly the most prolific goal kicker in league history.

Well no, by the definition of 'most prolific', Lockett is.

That's not the discussion tho, and it'd make a pretty bland poll.

So for me Coventry is the greatest full forward pre modern era and Lockett is the greatest modern era full forward based purely on goals kicked.

That's not the only measure tho.

# of kicks doesn't really rate midfielders. cf Woewodin vs Hird.

# of goals is probably a fair bit better measure of full-forwards; but it's still not everything.

I'd take Dunstall's achievements over Lockett's extra 100 goals.

If Pig didn't do his knee the 2nd time, it would've been on for all money.

 

[mondaysxpert]

Well no, by the definition of 'most prolific', Lockett is.

Was probably written before Lockett got to 1360, but with 61 goals between them they are the obvious stand outs and really there isn't a better measure for full fowards than goals kicked over a career

Hudson and Coleman may have better averages but they did their knees and didn't have old age pulling down their average

In the end most goals kicked is about as objective as you can be with such a subjective topic

 

[Slattery_20]

In the end most goals kicked is about as objective as you can be with such a subjective topic

And you still got it wrong.

Was probably written before Lockett got to 1360, but with 61 goals between them they are the obvious stand outs and really there isn't a better measure for full fowards than goals kicked over a career

And another guy 50 behind that, then a gap. Dunstall's in it up to his neck.


Well, he would be if he had one.

 

[mondaysxpert]

And another guy 50 behind that, then a gap. Dunstall's in it up to his neck.

I already said if it was me I'd pick Dunstall, simply because he was more stable and a team player.


But at the end of the day they called one end of the Docklands the Lockett end and the other the Coventry end to acknowledge the 2 greatest full forwards/goal kickers of all time.

 

[Kings Army]

Well no, by the definition of 'most prolific', Lockett is.

That's not the discussion tho, and it'd make a pretty bland poll.


That's not the only measure tho.

# of kicks doesn't really rate midfielders. cf Woewodin vs Hird.

# of goals is probably a fair bit better measure of full-forwards; but it's still not everything.

I'd take Dunstall's achievements over Lockett's extra 100 goals.

If Pig didn't do his knee the 2nd time, it would've been on for all money.

Any credit for Lockett playing in some terrible teams? Dunstall had some of the great midfielders feeding him as well as playing in a team that was very dominant - he recieved greater opportunity to kick goals. Lockett in some of those Hawks sides would have been even greater.

 

[Slattery_20]

Any credit for Lockett playing in some terrible teams? Dunstall had some of the great midfielders feeding him as well as playing in a team that was very dominant - he recieved greater opportunity to kick goals. Lockett in some of those Hawks sides would have been even greater.

Yeah, a bit.
Not 3 or 4 flags' worth.

Dunstall had to fight Dermie, Curran, Paul Hudson & Buckenara for kicks, plus crumbers.
Lockett had to fight Stewie Loewe , plus crumbers.

I already said if it was me I'd pick Dunstall, simply because he was more stable and a team player.

...then ruled him out of what was a '2 horse race'.
You're an odd one.

But at the end of the day they called one end of the SCG the Lockett end and the other the Coventry end to acknowledge the 2 greatest full forwards/goal kickers of all time.

Pretty sure that's docklands actually.

 

[TownleyTime]

Coventry kicked 111 goals in finals matches including 9 in a GF. The next best is in the 50's.

Coleman purely is talked up b/c of hype.

1st player to kick 100 goals in a season, 1st player to play 300 games, kicked a further 100 goals in State Matches.

He is the closest player the VFL/AFL has to Don Bradman.

 

[mondaysxpert]

...then ruled him out of what was a '2 horse race'.
You're an odd one.

Follow the logic.. Coventry must have been a freak but at 183cm he'd only be a forward pocket these days.. and Lockett would be just as likely to get suspended when you really needed him.. so yeah I'd pick Dunstall today.. but Lockett and Coventry go down as the greatest in the record books

 

[Slattery_20]

Coventry kicked 111 goals in finals matches including 9 in a GF. The next best is in the 50's.

Coleman purely is talked up b/c of hype.

B&Fs, flags, literally never beaten for the league goal-kicking.

Purely hype?
Hardly.

 

[mondaysxpert]

B&Fs, flags, literally never beaten for the league goal-kicking.

Purely hype?
Hardly.

If you look at the great full forwards they have about 4 or 5 seasons of being purely elite when they are in their prime, Coleman played from 22yr to 27yr of age, I think Coleman suffers from James Dean syndrome

We only ever saw his prime so there seems to be an assumption he would have done that every year, but we never saw his junior years or veteran years that would have dulled the legend, dragged down his average and made him appear all too human

 

[Slattery_20]

Only saw his prime?
Coleman started at 20 and was retired by 25. Your average tall probably gets going at about 23. {Coventry only really got going about 24}

To the age Coleman retired at:
Coventry had kicked ~210 goals
1 league goalkicking award vs 5.
0 B&Fs vs 1.
0 flags vs 2.

In his 5 years Coleman was the best around and his average, as well as every contemporary report says, he was in the best couple ever seen. If that's the worst thing you can say about him then you've got nothing other than some sort of rant about 'hype'

 

[The Bomb]

Coleman in 98 games 540 goals
at the same stage
Lockett had 371 goals
Coventry had 287 goals

Coleman in his 6th game of the season already had 42 goals and done his knee never to play again, at 25 years of age, no one ever got to see his best years at 25, 26, 27, 28,29 the years Lockett got most of his 100+ goal seasons.

Coleman has these boys covered 4eva.

remember Tendulkar has more runs then Bradman, but is not as good.
why, because of averages.

 

[Kings Army]

Coleman in 98 games 540 goals
at the same stage
Lockett had 371 goals
Coventry had 287 goals

Coleman in his 6th game of the season already had 42 goals and done his knee never to play again, at 25 years of age, no one ever got to see his best years at 25, 26, 27, 28,29 the years Lockett got most of his 100+ goal seasons.

Coleman has these boys covered 4eva.

remember Tendulkar has more runs then Bradman, but is not as good.
why, because of averages.

lol 98 games and he has players covered. Longevity in the game is important. Bradman retired at 40 not 25.

Maybe Paul Salmon should be on the list - 63 goals in 12 games would make him an all time great full forward. An average of over 5 goals!!!

How about Adrian McAdams - 32 games 92 goals!!! His average goals is greater than Hird, Daniher, Fraser, Hutchison - these players made your team of the century. McAdam must be considered an elite goal kicking machine at Essendon.


98 games

 

[Rocky_Star_Pro]

Coleman had 540 goals in just under 100 games, scary to think how much he would have scored if injuries didn't ruin his career.

 

[Torpedo12]

Yeah keeping in mind that Lockett played in one of the worst teams in the 80's. I have no doubt if Lockett had better delivery he would of kicked more goals. Lockett would never complain in the changerooms about the delivery, he would some how find a way to get the ball and kick it through the sticks. He was the most accurate kick i have ever seen. Put me to shame at training.

 

[Face_Plain]

Lloyd is my favourite player, and without doubt the best FF of the 00's, but he is a tier below the greatest FF's and does not belong on that list.

Lol @ Coleman hate.

 

[Asty]

Not in the list but always worth a mention when talking full forwards but from the SANFL ...

Ken Farmer

1419 goals from 224 games (6.33 / game)

Over 100 goals in a season 11 straight seasons

23 goals in one game (against West Adelaide)

Failed to kick a goal in only one game (injured and left field in 1st quarter)

50 SOA goals at 5/game (Defended by Jack Regan AFL hall of famer)

http://www.nafc.com.au/history/p207.aspx

After his first year when he scored nearly as many points as goals, he averaged four goals from every five shots. Yet when questioned in later life as to any areas of the game he could have improved upon Ken stated that he wished that the drop punt had been invented when he was playing. He believed he could have been even more accurate if this modern kick had been in vogue instead of having to rely on screw and flat punts.

No excuse for the modern footballer then!!

All pretty impressive on paper I would think.

 

[jezza25]

Ablett Snr is the greatest FF i have ever seen just a shame he didnt play his whole career there.

Lockett out of the poll option.

+1

 

[Frothies Mcveigh]

Coleman. Such a shame he was forced to retire.

Out of the poll, Lockett.

 

[The Bomb]

lol 98 games and he has players covered. Longevity in the game is important. Bradman retired at 40 not 25.

Maybe Paul Salmon should be on the list - 63 goals in 12 games would make him an all time great full forward. An average of over 5 goals!!!

How about Adrian McAdams - 32 games 92 goals!!! His average goals is greater than Hird, Daniher, Fraser, Hutchison - these players made your team of the century. McAdam must be considered an elite goal kicking machine at Essendon.


98 games

U R A SAD CLOWN!

 

[The Bomb]

lol 98 games and he has players covered. Longevity in the game is important. Bradman retired at 40 not 25.

Maybe Paul Salmon should be on the list - 63 goals in 12 games would make him an all time great full forward. An average of over 5 goals!!!

How about Adrian McAdams - 32 games 92 goals!!! His average goals is greater than Hird, Daniher, Fraser, Hutchison - these players made your team of the century. McAdam must be considered an elite goal kicking machine at Essendon.


98 games

Why is Coleman Full forward of the Century?
that is right they got it wrong.

 

[Slattery_20]

lol 98 games and he has players covered. Longevity in the game is important. Bradman retired at 40 not 25.

Maybe Paul Salmon should be on the list - 63 goals in 12 games would make him an all time great full forward. An average of over 5 goals!!!

How about Adrian McAdams - 32 games 92 goals!!! His average goals is greater than Hird, Daniher, Fraser, Hutchison - these players made your team of the century. McAdam must be considered an elite goal kicking machine at Essendon.


98 games

Wow, a forward kicked more goals a match than guys who largely spent their careers as midfielders & backmen.
Surprising.

Would Coleman have been regarded better if he played another 5 shit seasons, and did nothing/won nothing/no goals, before or after his "prime" ?
If so, why?

 

[Kings Army]

Wow, a forward kicked more goals a match than guys who largely spent their careers as midfielders & backmen.
Surprising.

Would Coleman have been regarded better if he played another 5 shit seasons, and did nothing/won nothing/no goals, before or after his "prime" ?
If so, why?

I just found out he dislocated his knee and then retired?? Darren Creswell dislocated his knee - popped it back in - jumped up and continued playing. Can people stop saying he did his knee. That is implying he tore his ACL.

98 games 60 years ago.