full forwards

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I just found out he dislocated his knee and then retired?? Darren Creswell dislocated his knee - popped it back in - jumped up and continued playing. Can people stop saying he did his knee. That is implying he tore his ACL.

98 games 60 years ago.

A bit unfair. Look I never saw him play, but judging by stats he was pretty good. 98 games or 298 games, there would have to be a case for him being talked about alongside Hudson, Dunstall, Lockett, Ablett etc. All great players.

 

[Kings Army]

A bit unfair. Look I never saw him play, but judging by stats he was pretty good. 98 games or 298 games, there would have to be a case for him being talked about alongside Hudson, Dunstall, Lockett, Ablett etc. All great players.

No where near those players - longevity in the game would have me pick all those players in front of a 98 game player. Add Coleman to the above list and put in order. Dead last. The 200+ player is worth a lot more than the 100 game player. Being able to get up week after week for 10+ years has to count as massive credit.

 

[Kings Army]

Why is Coleman Full forward of the Century?
that is right they got it wrong.

Pick 1 - either player A or player B to be added to the Essendon list in 2011 - what you read is what you will get going forward.

Player A will play 281 games and kick 1,360 goals for Essendon.

or

Player B will play 98 games and kick 537 goals for Essendon.


A or B?

 

[Slattery_20]

Ridiculous hypothetical much?

Player B will play for 5 seasons, win 2 flags; player A will play for you for 6 years and never win a final then **** off for more coin.
Player B, thanks eddie!

Coleman easily ranks alongside Lockett et al. Just as a lot of Hawks fans will put Hudson before Dunstall, and easily, easily alongside.

Smarter, better informed minds than you or I have made that call over however many decades, as much as it galls you.

You don't like Essendon, any of its players or coaches, past, present or future.
We get it.

 

[Partridge]

Coleman was the greatest ever and was finished at 25.

In 98 matches Coleman kicked a total of 537 career goals. He kicked 14 goals in a match on one occasion, 13 goals twice, 12 goals once, 11 goals twice, 10 goals six times, 9 goals 3 times, and 8 goals five times.

You also forgot these facts:

1. Kicked 12 goals in his first game.
2. Kicked 100 goals in his first season.
3. Kicked 120 goals in his second season.

I always roll my eyes when some pimple-faced 18-year-old gets 20 touches on their debut and it's touted as "best debut ever". Or even like Selwood or Judd over their first season. Compared to Coleman (and Haydn Bunton) and it's nothing at all.

I base my opinion on the statistics available (which remain incredibly impressive), plus the testimony of people I've met who did see him. I've heard pretty much the same views from Uncles, family friends, and my Dad, who as a Geelong supporter doesn't hype opposition players freely. He also doesn't live in the past; he freely admits most players then have been surpassed in all areas. But he does say, without hesitation, that Coleman was the best full-forward he's seen.

Not sure about the argument that his average is higher because he didn't play as a veteran - look at Ablett's record as a full-forward - 3 successive 120+ seasons past the age of 31. No reason why Coleman couldn't have matched that, it's all hypothetical.

Personally, I'd find it very difficult to split Coleman and Lockett. Lloyd has no place in this poll at all.

 

[Kings Army]

Ridiculous hypothetical much?

Player B will play for 5 seasons, win 2 flags; player A will play for you for 6 years and never win a final then **** off for more coin.
Player B, thanks eddie!

Coleman easily ranks alongside Lockett et al. Just as a lot of Hawks fans will put Hudson before Dunstall, and easily, easily alongside.

Smarter, better informed minds than you or I have made that call over however many decades, as much as it galls you.

You don't like Essendon, any of its players or coaches, past, present or future.
We get it.

Ok how close is player B to this player? Equal?

A) 269 games 1254 goals 4 flags.

B) 98 games 527 goals 2 flags

You want to drag flags into the debate against Lockett. Now who do you want at Essendon? Coleman still?

 

[Kings Army]

Ridiculous hypothetical much?

Player B will play for 5 seasons, win 2 flags; player A will play for you for 6 years and never win a final then **** off for more coin.
Player B, thanks eddie!

.

Coleman also walked off the ground in the middle of a game and went to get changed - he had to be begged to come back on - then dislocated his knee and never played again finishing on 98 games - this is the greatest full forward that ever played?

 

[Slattery_20]

Ok how close is player B to this player? Equal?

A) 269 games 1254 goals 4 flags.

B) 98 games 527 goals 2 flags

You want to drag flags into the debate against Lockett. Now who do you want at Essendon? Coleman still?

I've already said who I voted for, I merely added that Coleman was well & truly worthy of comparison. Unlike you, I know I haven't seen anywhere near enough to make a worthwhile judgement.

The point now is why you think Coleman doesn't rate worthy of consideration.

I suggest if he played for any other club predictable old you wouldn't have such an issue.

Coleman also walked off the ground in the middle of a game and went to get changed - he had to be begged to come back on - then dislocated his knee and never played again finishing on 98 games - this is the greatest full forward that ever played?

Karl Malone or Michael Jordan???
Played the same time.
One played more, scored more at a lower average.

Jordan's not the greatest cos he retired @ 29 or 30???
Nup, sorry. He's still the greatest.

 

[Slattery_20]

I base my opinion on the statistics available (which remain incredibly impressive), plus the testimony of people I've met who did see him. I've heard pretty much the same views from Uncles, family friends, and my Dad, who as a Geelong supporter doesn't hype opposition players freely.

FWIW my grandpa, 87 & a life-long Cats supporter; rates Coleman alongside Farmer.

 

[Kings Army]

I've already said who I voted for, I merely added that Coleman was well & truly worthy of comparison. Unlike you, I know I haven't seen anywhere near enough to make a worthwhile judgement.

The point now is why you think Coleman doesn't rate worthy of consideration.

I suggest if he played for any other club predictable old you wouldn't have such an issue.


Karl Malone or Michael Jordan???
Played the same time.
One played more, scored more at a lower average.

Jordan's not the greatest cos he retired @ 29 or 30???
Nup, sorry. He's still the greatest.

1) I saw Ablett, Lockett and Dunstall - I pick them easily over Coleman because I know what I get - I also get players that have the strength of mind to play more than 100 games.

2) Michael Jordan retired at 40. Do some research before you post - and more than just asking Granpa Joe.

 

[Slattery_20]

...for the 2nd time.
The 1st retirement was for the 94 season, he went & played baseball 'cos he wanted to.

Do some research before you post.

Strength of mind??? Retirement for doing a knee - in the 1950s - wasn't some evidence of having a 'soft mind'. It was a career ending injury & was up until the 80s or 90s when effective recoes came in.

The poll isn't "greatest full forwards K_A has seen".
It's greatest ever.

In 30 years time when Dunstall, Ablett, Hudson, Coleman & Lockett will still be up there. Despite many of the punters discussing it then not having seen them.

 

[Kings Army]

...for the 2nd time.
The 1st retirement was for the 94 season, he went & played baseball 'cos he wanted to.

Do some research before you post.

Strength of mind??? Retirement for doing a knee - in the 1950s - wasn't some evidence of having a 'soft mind'. It was a career ending injury & was up until the 80s or 90s when effective recoes came in.

The poll isn't "greatest full forwards K_A has seen".
It's greatest ever.

In 30 years time when Dunstall, Ablett, Hudson, Coleman & Lockett will still be up there. Despite many of the punters discussing it then not having seen them.

Jordan retired at 40 - Coleman at 25.


He did not do his knee - he dislocated his knee cap. Stop talking the injury up. He did not need a reco because he did not tear his ACL. And in 30 years time when you look at the greatest ever goal kickers list you will not see the name Coleman anywhere near the top - except on Grandpa Joe's best ever list.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Jordan retired at 40 - Coleman at 25.


He did not do his knee - he dislocated his knee cap. Stop talking the injury up. He did not need a reco because he did not tear his ACL. And in 30 years time when you look at the greatest ever goal kickers list you will not see the name Coleman anywhere near the top - except on Grandpa Joe's best ever list.

Mike Sheehan had him at 22 of all time. I know he is not considered the greatest forward of all time by most, but he is up there in very elite company. I don't know why you dislike the guy so much. He was obviously a great of the game

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsid=55909

 

[Slattery_20]

Mike Sheehan had him at 22 of all time. I know he is not considered the greatest forward of all time by most, but he is up there in very elite company. I don't know why you dislike the guy so much. He was obviously a great of the game

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsid=55909

Try and find a Kings Army post not about Essendon; or a poll about an Essendon player/side/game without a contribution from KA.

Borderline minority in both cases.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Try and find a Kings Army post not about Essendon; or a poll about an Essendon player/side/game without a contribution from KA.

Borderline minority in both cases.

John Coleman is a legend of the game and obviously one of the best to ever play it from what I understand. The reason he is only ranked at 22 and Hudson at 16 in that list I showed, is because they only played less than half the games the other blokes higher up played. If Hudson had of sustained his goal average of 5.63 and Coleman sustained his average of 5.47 and played the same amount of games as Lockett. Hudson would have had 1582 goals and Coleman 1537 goals.

Coleman is a great of the game end of story

 

[Kings Army]

Mike Sheehan had him at 22 of all time. I know he is not considered the greatest forward of all time by most, but he is up there in very elite company. I don't know why you dislike the guy so much. He was obviously a great of the game

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsid=55909

Lots of full fowards named in front which looks correct. Ablett Dunstall Lockett - 4, 5, 6. Coleman 22 - close.

Good list headed by the King!

 

[Kings Army]

John Coleman is a legend of the game and obviously one of the best to ever play it from what I understand. The reason he is only ranked at 22 and Hudson at 16 in that list I showed, is because they only played less than half the games the other blokes higher up played. If Hudson had of sustained his goal average of 5.63 and Coleman sustained his average of 5.47 and played the same amount of games as Lockett. Hudson would have had 1582 goals and Coleman 1537 goals.

Anyone saying these players aren't great have rocks in their head

Yes but logetivity is important!! This is what I have been saying - give me Dunstall ever time because he could play at a high level for a loooong period of time - Lockett, Ablett the same. No doubt Coleman was very good in the short amount of games he played.

 

[Slattery_20]

Coleman is a great of the game end of story

Yep.

Out of interst... given Dunstall's at 5: Knights & Brereton nowhere to be seen?
Surely BS.


That list smacks of 'well lockett's going right up here... hmm dunstall & ablett only just behind on goals... gotta be right together then'.
That's what annoys me about mike.
So damn justifiable.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Yep.

Out of interst... given Dunstall's at 5: Knights & Brereton nowhere to be seen?
Surely BS.


That list smacks of 'well lockett's going right up here... hmm dunstall & ablett only just behind on goals... gotta be right together then'.
That's what annoys me about mike.
So damn justifiable.

Yeah it's a weird list. He has Kernahan in it and I always thought Dermie and Knights were better players than Sticks. Might be my bias showing through

He never, ever liked Dermie anyway. He has made that pretty clear, so no surprises he wasn't in there.

 

[Slattery_20]

Hird over Madden pretty easily for mine, too.... oh wait, Madden played more games... no longevity!!!
Certainly Dermie or Knights (or TD) can't be far behind Sticks & Silvagni.

May be just me, but I never remember Sticks being that dominant. From the late 80s through the 90s, there was always top billing for Lockett/Ablett/Dunstall/Carey, then there were Salmon/Dermie/Sticks/Merrett and various others who were always a sort of second tier.

Wouldn't have any from that last bunch in a 'greatest ever' list.

 

[Partridge]

Yeah it's a weird list. He has Kernahan in it and I always thought Dermie and Knights were better players than Sticks. Might be my bias showing through

He never, ever liked Dermie anyway. He has made that pretty clear, so no surprises he wasn't in there.

Tough one. Personally I thought Kernahan was more consistent week to week than Brereton, but Brereton's best was better. If that makes sense.

Didn't see enough of Knights to be honest.

Of course, it's a matter of opinion. And there are plenty of people in footy I would listen to before Mike Sheahan.

 

[barmyarmy]

Hird over Madden pretty easily for mine, too.... oh wait, Madden played more games... no longevity!!!
Certainly Dermie or Knights (or TD) can't be far behind Sticks & Silvagni.

May be just me, but I never remember Sticks being that dominant. From the late 80s through the 90s, there was always top billing for Lockett/Ablett/Dunstall/Carey, then there were Salmon/Dermie/Sticks/Merrett and various others who were always a sort of second tier.

Wouldn't have any from that last bunch in a 'greatest ever' list.

kernahan is well and truely up with those 4 and comparing kernahan to salmon is an absolute joke and merrett please stop kidding yourself.....played chf and kicked 738 goals from 251 games 2nd best chf ever ....lets start a poll sticks and salmon

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

kernahan is well and truely up with those 4 and comparing kernahan to salmon is an absolute joke and merrett please stop kidding yourself.....played chf and kicked 738 goals from 251 games 2nd best chf ever ....lets start a poll sticks and salmon

So hows that poll going? What's the score? Because from what I see as of 12:29a.m, the 21st of January. The score is 16 to Salmon and only 8 to Sticks.

 

[Slattery_20]

played chf and kicked 738 goals from 251 games 2nd best chf ever

yeah really? 2nd best ever, because he kicked 2nd most goals?
Ahead of Hart/Brereton/everyone else purely because he played more games, kicked more goals?

This is my point. Going purely on games & goals is a shallow, shallow appraisal.

Who was more important to their team..
who would you prefer taking a crucial shot late in a game...
more likely to pull down a big pack mark
who was the better kick
who won more flags
who had better finals' performances
most games
most goals

Nothing is as simple as comparing a couple of numbers.
It all has to be weighed up against everything else.

 

[Jade]

So hows that poll going? What's the score? Because from what I see as of 12:29a.m, the 21st of January. The score is 16 to Salmon and only 8 to Sticks.

I'd check again if I were you.....