Strategy Full rebuild v rebuild on the run

[SchuPie]

Doesn’t matter where our picks start trade week (hopefully 18th pick) but imo it’s important where they are when it finishes

 

[CasuallyDressed]

As the LA Rams might say... f*ck them picks.

Collingwood have always found players with the picks they have... playing for picks creates a losing culture.

 

[SchuPie]

As the LA Rams might say... f*ck them picks.

Collingwood have always found players with the picks they have... playing for picks creates a losing culture.

agree with the second part

Just on the Rams - I think an anomaly that a number of clubs have tried to copy this last off season…I think it will end in disaster for a number of them
Not quite the same situation as us but hopefully we’re still able to snag a couple decent picks to land some developing KPP

 

[The Royal Sampler]

agree with the second part

Just on the Rams - I think an anomaly that a number of clubs have tried to copy this last off season…I think it will end in disaster for a number of them
Not quite the same situation as us but hopefully we’re still able to snag a couple decent picks to land some developing KPP

I think it works to prolong a “window”, because if you’re already a well-run franchise and seen as a contender, you can mortgage the future a little and attract players with talent who want a chance to win a championship/premiership.

The Rams drafted Aaron Donald and Cooper Kupp though.

Their strategy was really more similar to Hawthorn’s; get some primo talent through the draft and then eschew the draft and trade for proven players like Stafford, Ramsey, OBJ, Von Miller, Woods etc. who want to be a part of something.

 

[J Albert]

I hate to say it but I think Pendles, Sidey and Howe would be lucky to feature in our next premiership team. I think we need to draft another top 5 mid to rise with N Daicos. Not going to get it this year. Good teams recruit good player though so we could top up (like blues with Cerra) in a year or two to put us right in contention.

 

[SchuPie]

I think it works to prolong a “window”, because if you’re already a well-run franchise and seen as a contender, you can mortgage the future a little and attract players with talent who want a chance to win a championship/premiership.

The Rams drafted Aaron Donald and Cooper Kupp though.

Their strategy was really more similar to Hawthorn’s; get some primo talent through the draft and then eschew the draft and trade for proven players like Stafford, Ramsey, OBJ, Von Miller, Woods etc. who want to be a part of something.

My worry for them is that it’s all ok bc they won
Had they not, and they’ve now burnt so many future picks, they’re in for a lot of pain in coming years
Still, Superbowls are so hard to win and they’ve done it
It’s prob the other clubs who tried to copy strategy that I worry about
(…although, all those Watson trade picks might be returned if things keep getting worse…)

On us
I hope we try to pinch (fluke) a flag this year but I also hope we go hard at this draft - go for exactly the players we want and pay the price to get them

 

[The Royal Sampler]

^ I think you have to do that as 1 team in 32, it’s even harder to be an outlier than as 1 team in 18.

As a well-run franchise with an elite coach, in a strong market and a relatively desirable location within the U.S. they’ll be fine if they keep making sensible decisions.

 

[ClaytonM]

Our first rounders are actually much higher than what you think.

• WHE was Pick 4
• Nick Daicos was Pick 4 (although we know he was really a Pick 1-type)
• Scott Pendlebury was Pick 5
• JDG was Pick 5
• Moore was Pick 9

So we have the first-rounder talent.

Our rookie drafting was elite and Jack Crisp came from Pick 40 (in the rookies) and then was part of a steak-knives trade. Arguably, Crisp is the best player of the 2011 cohort. Ginni's efforts, too, would place him well in the conversation as one of the best picks from the 2020 draft. I'd have him in the top five from on-field achievement. Players who were standout juniors do not count as they have not reproduced this at AFL-level. Until you do, you are only a talented junior. Henry's top ten as well.

Unfortunately the picks wasted on Shaz, Freeman, Treloar and Beams are really hurting right now. Make better decisions with 3 of those 6 picks and we would be a real chance of competing.

 

[doppleganger]

How many premierships to Hawthorn win without Hodge (pick 1), Roughhead (pick 3?) and Lewis (pick 7)

Hawks traded to get the picks they used on Hodge and Lewis.

I think there is overwhelming evidence that finishing in the bottom 4, for at least a year or two, and picking up the next Martin/Petracca/Hodge/Franklin/Bontempelli ect is definitely worth it, and much better long term than finishing mid-table.

Only note to that is that the mid 2000s style Hawks & Pies two year quick drop before a bounce was priority pick assisted.

Richmond basically spent a decade outside finals with multiple bottom 4 finishes from 02-12

Melbourne also spent a decade of bottom four finishes 07-16

Carlton and Brisbane also more than a decade outside finals chalking up bottom 4 finishes.....No guarantee those two win anything.

Id much rather be Sydney, a team that like us won a flag in early 2010s, remained competitive with other GF appearnaces since, had a quick fall and now back competing with a great blend of kids and veterans...the Swans only had one season where % dropped below 90 (they didnt get stuck in the bottom 4 death spiral for a decade like Melbourne or Richmond)

 

[Jen2310]

I hate to say it but I think Pendles, Sidey and Howe would be lucky to feature in our next premiership team. I think we need to draft another top 5 mid to rise with N Daicos. Not going to get it this year. Good teams recruit good player though so we could top up (like blues with Cerra) in a year or two to put us right in contention.

I think the hope that Macrae/reef will be the ones.

 

[Kappa]

I think the hope that Macrae/reef will be the ones.

Neither have shown much in 2 years on the list.

 

[Jen2310]

Neither have shown much in 2 years on the list.

Well covid has impacted them I think. Plus Reef had a tough time with injury. With Macrae... I think, like his brother was; will be a slow burn. Have to yield a bit of patience.

 

[magpies42]

Collingwoods rebuild on the run was brought forward by the salary cap debacle…we brought a bunch of kids in because that was all we could afford. And then we didn’t get the full benefit of finishing in 17th spot because of our trading ( and Nicky D). Lipinski has been an excellent top up this year .

Additionally , due to Covid, the talent pool has been much harder to identify and there have been bargains at the back of the draft.

Our rebuild on the run is going to be short lived, we are still relying on our ageing talent to get us across the line. Pendles and Sidebottom in recent weeks have been huge, Howe, Mihocek, Elliot and Adams also closer to the end. We don’t yet have the talent to fill these gaps, so it follows that if we don’t impact over the next couple of years that we will properly bottom as these players retire or their returns diminish.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Our rebuild on the run is going to be short lived, we are still relying on our ageing talent to get us across the line. Pendles and Sidebottom in recent weeks have been huge, Howe, Mihocek, Elliot and Adams also closer to the end. We don’t yet have the talent to fill these gaps, so it follows that if we don’t impact over the next couple of years that we will properly bottom as these players retire or their returns diminish.

Not too concerned, a bit more player development and most of these players can be replaced from within and from further trades.

Mcreery/Ginnivan will get better and easily cover Elliott. Henry will cover Mihocek and likely surpass him. Adams needs to be replaced but hopefully macrae will fill that role, although his development at the moment is slower than expected. Howe has been consistently good this year but he’s not irreplaceable. In fact our defence has improved out of sight since the arrival of Murphy…. Not that he’s like for like but just an example of a lesser light making a big difference. Sidebottom can be replaced relatively seamlessly. Pendles is a once in a generation player…. Almost impossible to replace unless you have a Nick Daicos on your books……

 

[magpies42]

Not too concerned, a bit more player development and most of these players can be replaced from within and from further trades.

Mcreery/Ginnivan will get better and easily cover Elliott. Henry will cover Mihocek and likely surpass him. Adams needs to be replaced but hopefully macrae will fill that role, although his development at the moment is slower than expected. Howe has been consistently good this year but he’s not irreplaceable. In fact our defence has improved out of sight since the arrival of Murphy…. Not that he’s like for like but just an example of a lesser light making a big difference. Sidebottom can be replaced relatively seamlessly. Pendles is a once in a generation player…. Almost impossible to replace unless you have a Nick Daicos on your books……

We have more gaps than that on our list…I think we are on a good path. Point of my post though was that we really need to strike whilst these guns are still playing good football.

 

[Bianconeri]

Our rebuild on the run is going to be short lived, we are still relying on our ageing talent to get us across the line. Pendles and Sidebottom in recent weeks have been huge, Howe, Mihocek, Elliot and Adams also closer to the end. We don’t yet have the talent to fill these gaps, so it follows that if we don’t impact over the next couple of years that we will properly bottom as these players retire or their returns diminish.

I’m the last 5 games Pendlebury has only gone over 20 possessions twice and I wouldn’t say Sidebottom’s been huge either. They’ve played their roles but I wouldn’t say we’re relying on them anymore and I think their loss are covers by the Daicos brothers emergence. Howe also I think is covered by the emergence of Murphy. So think the core group we have to build around are De Goey, Mihocek, Crisp, Adams, Elliott, Moore, Maynard and Cameron/Grundy think they still got another 3-4 seasons before they start to fall off.

 

[KinderSmock]

I’m the last 5 games Pendlebury has only gone over 20 possessions twice and I wouldn’t say Sidebottom’s been huge either. They’ve played their roles but I wouldn’t say we’re relying on them anymore and I think their loss are covers by the Daicos brothers emergence. Howe also I think is covered by the emergence of Murphy. So think the core group we have to build around are De Goey, Mihocek, Crisp, Adams, Elliott, Moore, Maynard and Cameron/Grundy think they still got another 3-4 seasons before they start to fall off.

Quality not quantity.

Oliver had 40 against us on the Queen's Birthday. His team kicked 56 points and lost.

Pendles has under 20 but is involved in scoring and is our AFL-style quarterback.

 

[Bianconeri]

Quality not quantity.

Oliver had 40 against us on the Queen's Birthday. His team kicked 56 points and lost.

Pendles has under 20 but is involved in scoring and is our AFL-style quarterback.

He’s been quality but we’re not relying on him anymore.

 

[KinderSmock]

He’s been quality but we’re not relying on him anymore.

Nor should we. When he leaves, the club will still stand.

 

[KinderSmock]

Not too concerned, a bit more player development and most of these players can be replaced from within and from further trades.

Mcreery/Ginnivan will get better and easily cover Elliott. Henry will cover Mihocek and likely surpass him. Adams needs to be replaced but hopefully macrae will fill that role, although his development at the moment is slower than expected. Howe has been consistently good this year but he’s not irreplaceable. In fact our defence has improved out of sight since the arrival of Murphy…. Not that he’s like for like but just an example of a lesser light making a big difference. Sidebottom can be replaced relatively seamlessly. Pendles is a once in a generation player…. Almost impossible to replace unless you have a Nick Daicos on your books……

You can find an Adams-bull fairly easily.

All players can be replaced. There are kids that are as good as Pendles out there, waiting for the opportunity. Nick Daicos is also there. He is our generational player, ready to step up. We have a 25 year old at 19 and with the right team around him, can lead us to the flag. We may get a shot this year - with wins against West Coast and Geelong, we'd be Top 4. So it's not unrealistic.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I’m the last 5 games Pendlebury has only gone over 20 possessions twice and I wouldn’t say Sidebottom’s been huge either. They’ve played their roles but I wouldn’t say we’re relying on them anymore and I think their loss are covers by the Daicos brothers emergence. Howe also I think is covered by the emergence of Murphy. So think the core group we have to build around are De Goey, Mihocek, Crisp, Adams, Elliott, Moore, Maynard and Cameron/Grundy think they still got another 3-4 seasons before they start to fall off.

I’d add Josh and Nick Daicos to that core list and wouldn’t imagine Henry is far away from being included there as well. Possibly Murphy too!!!!

 

[Big Bryza]

I hate to say it but I think Pendles, Sidey and Howe would be lucky to feature in our next premiership team. I think we need to draft another top 5 mid to rise with N Daicos. Not going to get it this year. Good teams recruit good player though so we could top up (like blues with Cerra) in a year or two to put us right in contention.

Where else are they going to be in 3 months time?!

 

[adammania9]

Each rebuild is different from another. We clearly had enough on field talent to be able to take a slower approach to rebuilding. North Melbourne haven't exactly had the luxury of having players like Adams, Crisp, Pendlebury, Maynard, Moore etc during their rebuild

For what it's worth, we're not rebuilding, we just have a handful of kids getting regular games.

 

[golazo]

Each rebuild is different from another. We clearly had enough on field talent to be able to take a slower approach to rebuilding. North Melbourne haven't exactly had the luxury of having players like Adams, Crisp, Pendlebury, Maynard, Moore etc during their rebuild

For what it's worth, we're not rebuilding, we just have a handful of kids getting regular games.

North Melbourne decided to piss off all their experienced players in favour for youth. Most successful effective rebuilds have that base of experience, with youth being fed through and learning off current leaders

I don’t think a rebuild has to necessarily mean turfing your entire team. Switch out 6 players and that’s a third of your team, and a third of a team that’s talented and youthful along with the right attitude can massively improve you. I think that’s what we’re seeing with the pies right now, coupled with better luck on the injury table

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I’d add Josh and Nick Daicos to that core list and wouldn’t imagine Henry is far away from being included there as well. Possibly Murphy too!!!!

Edit…. Add Lipinski to the core.