Fact Fun Facts About Drawn Games

emuboy

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One of the silliest things in the AFL in recent years has been the absolute drama a draw causes. Players of both teams slump to the ground devastated like their team has just lost the Grand Final, and debate rages for days about whether draws should continue in the AFL.
I think it is all ridiculous - you finished with the same score as your opponent - get over it already! At least you didn't lose! And who knows, your two points might get you a double chance, a finals place or help you avoid the wooden spoon. What if you played soccer, where draws are as frequent as wins and losses?

Draws are rare, should be retained IMO, and provide fascinating trivia for those of us who love football stats. Here are some, please post others:

  • Essendon has played the most draws (33), the most recent of which was against the Brisbane Lions this year.
  • The Fremantle Dockers have never played a draw in 15 completed AFL seasons since 1995 (the 2006 sirengate debacle against the Saints not withstanding), while the Adelaide Crows have drawn only once, in the wet against St Kilda in 1994. The other two teams to enter the AFL in the 1990s, the Brisbane Lions & Port Adelaide have drawn more frequently, and in fact played successive draws against each other in 1997/98.
  • Of the three clubs to enter the then VFL in 1925, Hawthorn have played just 9 draws, but North and the Bulldogs have played in draws 17 & 22 times respectively.
  • Melbourne draw infrequently - when they finished level with the Sydney Swans in Round 7 1992, it was their first draw since 1971, and they would not play a tie again until a late 2006 match against Geelong. They have not played a draw in 3 years since then.
  • After Carlton & Fitzroy drew early in 1982, there would be no more draws until a game between North & Hawthorn in 1985. The Football Record commented that very day about the long absence of draws.
  • The most recent season without a draw is 2004.
  • Carlton and the Sydney/Sth Melb Swans have drawn the most times in games against each other - 6 times, but the most recent tie between them was in 1967.
  • West Coast & Collingwood drew in the 1990 Qualifying Final, and scores were again level at the final siren in a 2007 Semi Final between these teams, with the Magpies winning this match in extra time.
  • Two Grand Finals have been drawn - 1948 Essendon vs Melbourne and 1977 Collingwood vs North Melb. But while the drawn games attracted good crowds - 85,658 & 108,224 respectively - the replays received much smaller crowds - 52,226 & 98,366.
 

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demonfan9

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#4
Melbourne draw infrequently - when they finished level with the Sydney Swans in Round 7 1992, it was their first draw since 1971, and they would not play a tie again until a late 2006 match against Geelong. They have not played a draw in 3 years since then.

So just two draws in 38 seasons? That's a remarkable stat! And to think that in the 2006 draw against Geelong we were literally one second away from losing (scores were level as a Geelong player handballed the ball through their goals for a behind, but the siren sounded a split second earlier and the score did not count).

Great thread by the way.
 
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#5
Always been a fan of draws. Was appalled when Essendon drew with Brisbane this year, a game we had in the bag and pissed away, but in the end, those 2 points gave us 8th spot and a finals berth.

And the inaugural Essendon-Collingwood Anzac Day clash in 1995 had the perfect ending.

Honestly, I like draws. Though maybe I'm just used to them after seeing Essendon have one every couple of years.

Any talk of getting rid of the draw is simply ludicrous.
 

mianfei

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#6
All pairs of teams active constantly since 1925 except Hawthorn have played at least one drawn game since 1897, with the following three exceptions:

  • Carlton v North Melbourne
  • Geelong v South Melbourne/Sydney
  • Geelong v St. Kilda
  • (Fitzroy never drew with either Richmond or Footscray)
Of those three pairs, Carlton and North may seem surprising given that in my childhood of the late 1980s the pair were renowned for producing thrillers - including several with remarkably high scores like the Round 3, 1985 game in 34˚C heat where Dwyer kicked the winning goal, and a Round 20, 1988 game where Carlton's Adrian Gleeson took Dwyer's place. (Oddly, in the following season Gleeson was on the same round to play probably the best game of his career in another high-scoring thriller, this time against St. Kilda).

Emuboy, extremely good point about the drama a draw causes. It has always been overstated, even before there was a debate about whether they should continue. I wonder how many people think of St. Kilda's draw with North Melbourne in the last round of 1980 avoiding the wooden spoon for them, or how a draw in 1963 meant for both Hawthorn and Geelong the difference between second and fifth? Of course, a draw can be costly, as it was for Richmond in 1966 when a draw with North cost them a finals berth - though given that the Kangaroos had ten more scoring shots one can hardly think it would have been fair had they lost. More recently, Collingwood's failure to win a draw at Moorabbin in 1991 cost it a finals berth.
 

emuboy

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Thread starter #7
Emuboy, extremely good point about the drama a draw causes. It has always been overstated, even before there was a debate about whether they should continue. I wonder how many people think of St. Kilda's draw with North Melbourne in the last round of 1980 avoiding the wooden spoon for them, or how a draw in 1963 meant for both Hawthorn and Geelong the difference between second and fifth? Of course, a draw can be costly, as it was for Richmond in 1966 when a draw with North cost them a finals berth - though given that the Kangaroos had ten more scoring shots one can hardly think it would have been fair had they lost. More recently, Collingwood's failure to win a draw at Moorabbin in 1991 cost it a finals berth.
I'm glad some people agree with me about the over the top reaction draws cause. And it doesn't seem to matter what the circumstances are when a draw occurs: it could be an early season game when teams are finding their feet; an important game that decides finals places or a double chance; a game billed as a grand final preview; the battle of the wooden spoon; a meaningless late season game between 12th & 14th that has no impact on anything; a high scoring free flowing game or a low scoring slog; a game of high standard or a poor standard game; or a game that is close all day or a game where one team comes from behind, the reaction is always the same.

It is hard to imagine the Geelong vs Richmond game to be played later today ending in a draw (the Cats inflicting a century thrashing on the hapless Tigers is a more likely proposition), but lets just say it did. You could understand Geelong being disappointed at drawing with a team that is almost certain to finish last by a long way, but would they be more disappointed and embarassed if the Tigers got just one more behind and won the match in one of the biggest upsets for many years? And would Richmond be pleased to have shared the points with the winner of two of the last three premierships and a likely premiership contender again this year on its much feared home ground, or would the Tigers be less disappointed if they fell one point short of the vastly superior Cats?
 

mianfei

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#8
Very well said. I am sure nobody at Arden Street (or at Fitzroy, just as importantly) thought St. Kilda could draw with North Melbourne, who had beaten them by eighty-three points at Moorabbin in Round 11 of that year. Yet, they stayed with the Kangaroos in the first half and then North Melbourne wasted their opportunities with nine behinds in the third quarter with a strong breeze. By then it was little surprise that St. Kilda could come back to make a draw. I am also sure nobody thought North would draw with Richmond at the MCG in 1966 (The Age said “Richmond should consolidate its place”) but as it turned out they would have won but for kicking 6.20 (56) in the last three quarters when The Age said that neither side had attacks that functioned well on a good day for footy.
 

King Size

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#9
Time to update this thread methinks :cool:

  • Essendon has played the most draws (34), the most recent of which was against Carlton this year.
  • There have been 6 draws in the past 2 seasons. 5 of them had either Melbourne or St Kilda playing, but the 2 teams haven't drawn against each other since 1921.
  • Hawthorn had a draw in 2010, which was their first since 1999.
  • Fremantle have never played in a draw after 17 seasons in the AFL.
  • Geelong and Sydney have never drawn against each other in 115 years of the VFL/AFL.
  • Carlton and North Melbourne have never drawn against each other.
  • West Coast played in 2 draws in 2003. They haven't played in a draw since that season.
  • Collingwood played in 2 draws in 2010. Their most recent draw prior to 2010 was in 1995. They also drew twice that season.
  • Port Adelaide have played in 4 draws, the most recent being in 2005.
  • The most recent season without a draw was 2004.
 

mianfei

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#10
  • There have been 6 draws in the past 2 seasons. 5 of them had either Melbourne or St Kilda playing, but the 2 teams haven't drawn against each other since 1921.
  • Geelong and Sydney have never drawn against each other in 115 years of the VFL/AFL.
  • Carlton and North Melbourne have never drawn against each other
Good facts - I had not noticed that those two clubs had been playing in all but one of the draws. One reason Essendon has played more draws than any other club is that of eleven drawn VFL games between 1940 and 1949, Essendon played in six, two of which were the 1946 Second Semi and 1948 Grand Final.

It is notable that of the pairs of clubs playing between 1925 and 1986, there are only ten that have never drawn out of the sixty-six possible pairs. What is amazing is that half of them involve Hawthorn:
  1. Carlton and Hawthorn
  2. Collingwood and Hawthorn
  3. Essendon and Hawthorn
  4. Hawthorn and Melbourne
  5. Hawthorn and Richmond
  6. Geelong v South Melbourne/Sydney
  7. Geelong v St. Kilda (in 111 years of playing each other)
  8. Carlton and North Melbourne
  9. Fitzroy v Footscray (in 72 years)
  10. Fitzroy v Richmond (no draw in 88 years)
The fact that half of the pairs involve Hawthorn is so amazing - even when one realises they have not been in the competition as long as most of the other eleven clubs - that a year or two ago I started a thread on the topic and would be happy if it were re-activated.
 

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Hodgepodge

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#12
[*]Two Grand Finals have been drawn - 1948 Essendon vs Melbourne and 1977 Collingwood vs North Melb. But while the drawn games attracted good crowds - 85,658 & 108,224 respectively - the replays received much smaller crowds - 52,226 & 98,366.
[/LIST]
Good read. Add Collingwood 2010 as well.
 

mianfei

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#13
No team has had more than two draws in a season. There have nonetheless been five rounds with two draws:
  • Round 2, 1911
  • Round 1, 1914
  • Round 5, 1921 (on two separate afternoons)
  • Round 6, 1944 (including the highest score by a team goalless in the second half)
  • Round 7, 1977 (two draws in three games for St. Kilda)
It is notable how St. Kilda are involved in four of these occurrences, and that two occurred in the birth years of myself (1977) and my father (1921); in my mother's birth year of 1949 there was not a single draw in any of the VFL, SANFL or WAFL by contrast!
 

emuboy

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Thread starter #14
No team has had more than two draws in a season. There have nonetheless been five rounds with two draws:
  • Round 2, 1911
  • Round 1, 1914
  • Round 5, 1921 (on two separate afternoons)
  • Round 6, 1944 (including the highest score by a team goalless in the second half)
  • Round 7, 1977 (two draws in three games for St. Kilda)
It is notable how St. Kilda are involved in four of these occurrences, and that two occurred in the birth years of myself (1977) and my father (1921); in my mother's birth year of 1949 there was not a single draw in any of the VFL, SANFL or WAFL by contrast!
St Kilda always seem to get involved in interesting trivia. For example the AFL/VFL has changed the results of games just 3 times in 113 years, and all 3 involved St Kilda (1900, 1907 & 2006).

Some great stats here, especially two draws in the same round.

While there are no cases of teams playing 3 or more draws in the AFL/VFL, there was a case in the WAFL in 1959. The East Perth Royals played three draws that year, and obviously it must have held them in good stead for tight finishes, as they were able to hold on to defeat the Subiaco Lions in a tight, thrilling 1959 WAFL Grand Final.
 

Magic Mike

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#19
Thread is worthy of an update after the Richmond vs Port Adelaide draw.
  • Richmond's draw against Port Adelaide was the 22nd draw in their history, their 1st draw against Port Adelaide and their 5th draw in 6 seasons. The only year Richmond didn't play in a draw from 2007-2012 was 2010. Their last draw prior to 2007 was against Essendon in Round 15, 1995.
  • Port Adelaide's draw against Richmond was the 5th in their history and their first draw since 2005.
 

Crow_Sting

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#20
Thread is worthy of an update after the Richmond vs Port Adelaide draw.
  • Richmond's draw against Port Adelaide was the 22nd draw in their history, their 1st draw against Port Adelaide and their 5th draw in 6 seasons. The only year Richmond didn't play in a draw from 2007-2012 was 2010. Their last draw prior to 2007 was against Essendon in Round 15, 1995.
  • Port Adelaide's draw against Richmond was the 5th in their history and their first draw since 2005.
Would Richmond have the most draws since 2000?
 

Magic Mike

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#24
Time to update after the Sydney vs Fremantle draw.
  • Fremantle's draw against Sydney was the first in their history.
  • Sydney's draw against Fremantle was the 24th draw in their history and their first draw at the SCG since Round 6, 1996 against Essendon.
  • Sydney have had 4 draws in the last 7 seasons (2007-present).
  • Adelaide currently have the longest 'draw drought' with their last draw occurring in Round 14, 1994 against St Kilda, which to date is the only draw in Adelaide's history.
 

MWPP

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Adelaide's Draw Drought continues ^. We have the next longest active drought (we had 2x in 2003 but none since), the other teams apart from GWS/Gold Coast (who have yet to play in a draw) have played in one in the last 10 years. 2012 and 2013 only had 1 draw apiece.
 
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