Future Core Group

[Knightmare]

U28 - Core group to build list around

F: -- Chris Dawes --
HF: Dayne Beams Travis Cloke Alex Fasolo
CEN: Dale Thomas Scott Pendlebury Steele Sidebottom
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Harry O'Brien
B: -- Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
FOLL: Jarrod Witts Luke Ball Dane Swan
BENCH: Lachlan Keeffe Jye Bolton Paul Seedsman Sharrod Wellingham

Others I considered including but couldn't fit into the side: Jarryd Blair Brent Macaffer Tyson Goldsack Jonathan Ceglar Tom Young Josh Thomas Kirk Ugle
*Based on what we have now Goldsack, Macaffer and Blair likely will fill those remaining holes. But other future draft picks could go past them if they don't reach another level.

If we are talking ultimate type players to fill these final holes to "complete" our team you'd be looking at a high level medium forward - Steve Johnson type, crumbing forward - Cyril Rioli type and a high level low 180cm type back pocket who can shut down the small forwards while also adding rebound - think someone who can do what Leon Davis did this year.

The thing that stands out most about this team is the depth of midfielders. Incredibly difficult to slot all these in. Absolutely no need to draft any more unless they have the flexibility of a Ben Johnson where they can swing into other positions.

*Feel free to offer your own interpretations on who we should build around and the types of players we should be looking to add.

 

[blaze036]

why is ball and swan in the future team, ball with his groin problems wont be able to go past 30, will become too slow.

I'd have (team for the future)
Forwards: Dawes cloke beams fasolo
Midfield: Blair Sidebottom thomas pendlebury mooney witts Wellingham
Defence: Reid Toovs Shaw young
A chance: Bolton Keefe.
Rest of the spots still yet to fill with young quality in my opinion

 

[KissmeRobbo]

We are lucky to have 2 levels of youth, an experienced core group already playing regular senior football, all aged between 21 -24

Then a younger less experienced group headed by Fasolo Witts Sinclair J Thomas Ugle Rounds Young Keeffe etc that look very exciting


Buckley Brown Goldsack
O'Brien Reid Wellingham

Wood Pendlebury Thomas
Toovey Sidebottom Dick/Clarke

Macaffer Cloke Beams
McCarthy Dawes Blair




Cribbin Gordon Seedsman
Hartley Keeffe Sinclair

Witts Thomas Bolton
Young Farmer Fasolo

Rounds Reilly Stubbs
Ceglar Perham Ugle

 

[Knightmare]

why is ball and swan in the future team, ball with his groin problems wont be able to go past 30, will become too slow.

I'd have (team for the future)
Forwards: Dawes cloke beams fasolo
Midfield: Blair Sidebottom thomas pendlebury mooney witts Wellingham
Defence: Reid Toovs Shaw young
A chance: Bolton Keefe.
Rest of the spots still yet to fill with young quality in my opinion

I chose to go with our group of under 28s because these players should all be around for the next 4+ years. The likes of Didak, Maxwell and older likely won't be around for quite so long.

Ball is incredibly relevant and has shrugged off any injury difficulties this year. Kicking is the best it has ever been and speed is coming back also. Only getting better. Absolute professional and has allot of good footy left in him for mine.

Think he can go for another 4 years if he wants to.

Swan same and has proven durable over the journey. Could have another 5-6 years in him for mine.

 

[KissmeRobbo]

The most impressive aspect of our future is the key position quality

Rounds Brown Goldsack
Young Reid Toovey
Sinclair Blair Wellingham
Macaffer Cloke Fasolo
Beams Dawes Sidebottom

Witts Pendlebury D Thomas

Ugle J Thomas Keeffe
Bolton Seedsman Ceglar

* Born 1987+

 

[blaze036]

ballys groin wont hold up for that long i reckon, his had some very serious injuries in the past and these always take a few years off at the end. Dunno about swan, his unique so could do anything, but will be very interesting to see what we take in this years draft in our first 1st rd selection in a while, and the 2nd rounder. anything after that will likely be on bolton / witts / pass. My guess would be on a talented midfielder and a back/forward swingman similair to hurley

 

[Knightmare]

The most impressive aspect of our future is the key position quality

Very much agree.

Even Hartley + Gordon are reasonable prospects down back.

We could do with a higher level depth KPF - maybe an Eddy or similar. But otherwise we are set. James Stewart will also add to those stocks but is another year away.

Just shows how well our list has been managed and even while up the top of the ladder it doesn't look like we will any time in the near future have any kind of substantial collapse.

 

[Pie eyed]

ballys groin wont hold up for that long i reckon, his had some very serious injuries in the past and these always take a few years off at the end. Dunno about swan, his unique so could do anything, but will be very interesting to see what we take in this years draft in our first 1st rd selection in a while, and the 2nd rounder. anything after that will likely be on bolton / witts / pass. My guess would be on a talented midfielder and a back/forward swingman similair to hurley

ON Ball, I think there is no indication, other than normal aging in a player, which suggests he can't be considered as duarble as any other player his age. In fact he appears to fo all intents and purposes improved on even his pre-injury condition whilst at St Kilda. His kicking is at career best penetration.

That said he has 2-3 years left at best simply because of the rigours of his game style.

If he can get another medal this year and possibly another he'd be happy to hang up the boots I'd reckon.


(edit to see if the edit time appears in the post)

 

[mdc]

ON Ball, I think there is no indication, other than normal aging in a player, which suggests he can't be considered as duarble as any other player his age.

He plays like a ****ing maniac. As much as I'd love him to have another 4-5 years in the B&W (and possibly even captain a year or two), I don't think it's likely.

Paul Kelly and Voss are the only two recent players I can think of who subjected their body to as much routine punishment, and they both started succumbing to injury around 29-30.

edit: did you add in that middle bit later Pie eye, or do I just read bad?

 

[Pie eyed]

He plays like a ****ing maniac. As much as I'd love him to have another 4-5 years in the B&W (and possibly even captain a year or two), I don't think it's likely.

Paul Kelly and Voss are the only two recent players I can think of who subjected their body to as much routine punishment, and they both started succumbing to injury around 29-30.

edit: did you add in that middle bit later Pie eye, or do I just read bad?

No I think it all went down in one sitting?

Nah just checked and the only edit was the test bit I did at the bottom.

Therefore ...get ya eyes checked...one eye.

 

[mdc]

Also, it seems absurd to me to have unproven guys like Bolton and Young ahead of proven AFL talent like Goldsack and especially Macaffer.

 

[Knightmare]

Also, it seems absurd to me to have unproven guys like Bolton and Young ahead of proven AFL talent like Goldsack and especially Macaffer.

Not ahead of them yet since 1st years. But think Bolton, Seedsman + Young will go past the likes of Blair/Macaffer/Goldsack come years 2 or 3 to eventually go on and become regulars.

 

[TradeDraft]

If we are talking ultimate type players to fill these final holes to "complete" our team you'd be looking at a high level medium forward - Steve Johnson type, crumbing forward - Cyril Rioli type and a high level low 180cm type back pocket who can shut down the small forwards while also adding rebound - think someone who can do what Leon Davis did this year.

Wouldn't that be Elijah Edwards?

 

[mdc]

Not ahead of them yet since 1st years. But think Bolton, Seedsman + Young will go past the likes of Blair/Macaffer/Goldsack come years 2 or 3 to eventually go on and become regulars.

They might, they might not. It seems to me you constantly underrate young, AFL standard players just because they're no longer teenagers.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

I find it highly unlikely that we'll retain all of our fringe players too. Guys like Macaffer, Goldsack, McCarthy, etc aren't going to want to stay if they're not part of our best 22 in the premiership window.

 

[Ed D]

I wouldn't be too surprised if both Didak and Swan played into their 30s. They're both the type of players who could do it. Quick, smart, agile, have goal sense and can play in the forward line. It really comes down to consistent injuries.

 

[sr36]

U28 - The thing that stands out most about this team is the depth of midfielders. Incredibly difficult to slot all these in. Absolutely no need to draft any more unless they have the flexibility of a Ben Johnson where they can swing into other positions.

Nearly all quality mids have the flexibility to swing into other positions. Even a pure midfielder like Luke Ball would be an excellent back pocket. Swan would be a sensational forward pocket. Just about all our non tall forwards are midfielders who can't get a full time gig there. Most of them could also do a pretty good job as a Ben Johnson style back flanker. Our full team has 6 talls - Cloke, Dawes, Brown, Jolly, Reid and Tarrant - 3 guys who are purely defenders - Maxwell, Toovey and OBrien and 13 blokes who would play as starting midfielders in any other league.

Frankly the best flankers are really midfielders.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Agree with sr36. We should keep drafting mids and introduce them to the team by starting their careers as forward flankers and half back flankers. It's proven successful in the past for us.

Thomas, Sidebottom, Blair and Beams have all been brought into the side this way.

 

[sr36]

Agree with sr36. We should keep drafting mids and introduce them to the team by starting their careers as forward flankers and half back flankers. It's proven successful in the past for us.

Thomas, Sidebottom, Blair and Beams have all been brought into the side this way.

As were Swan, Didak and Johnson.

 

[Knightmare]

Wouldn't that be Elijah Edwards?

Left him out for now since he is still a fair way off. But looms as the likely replacement. Even if he doesn't get much past 170cm.

Krakouer for now will be fine as that crumbing forward, but I do think after this year he might struggle to keep his spot in the side with the Bolton's, Seedsman's and Young's all coming through.

They might, they might not. It seems to me you constantly underrate young, AFL standard players just because they're no longer teenagers.

You are right. It's still very early and they aren't clearly going to make it. But my sense with their level of development (Bolton, Seedsman and Young) makes me think they are a chance. I could be over-rating them given low draft postions, but i've been encourages by their development and they all seem to have the work ethic which makes me believe they could break through into the senior side as regulars. Maybe one of these makes it, maybe two of these make it. Maybe none of these make it. Just have to see.

The reason why I don't have Goldy/Caff/Blair in this side is because they are probably the natural ones to slip out to make way for new, potentially better talent. Still AFL quality talents, but pick up a couple of quality players through the draft and they are the ones to slide out and get traded. I view all those outside of of our top 15 and to be trade options whether it be this year or in future years. But with Goldy/Caff/Blair would love for these three in particular to continue to get regular roles and for one to break through like Toovey has and become that important to our side. But I don't view any of the above to be sure things long term.

I find it highly unlikely that we'll retain all of our fringe players too. Guys like Macaffer, Goldsack, McCarthy, etc aren't going to want to stay if they're not part of our best 22 in the premiership window.

McCarthy yes. And would have value outside Collingwood. Caff/Goldy I'm not willing to give up on yet and give a chance. But they have to have a big 2012 season to secure their futures and break back into that core group.

I wouldn't be too surprised if both Didak and Swan played into their 30s. They're both the type of players who could do it. Quick, smart, agile, have goal sense and can play in the forward line. It really comes down to consistent injuries.

I hope Didak can come back to his best form and play into his 30s. Should get back into his better form next year, but how long he lasts is questionable.
Would be a big win if both can play into their 30s. Krak + Ball also.

Nearly all quality mids have the flexibility to swing into other positions. Even a pure midfielder like Luke Ball would be an excellent back pocket. Swan would be a sensational forward pocket. Just about all our non tall forwards are midfielders who can't get a full time gig there. Most of them could also do a pretty good job as a Ben Johnson style back flanker. Our full team has 6 talls - Cloke, Dawes, Brown, Jolly, Reid and Tarrant - 3 guys who are purely defenders - Maxwell, Toovey and OBrien and 13 blokes who would play as starting midfielders in any other league.

Frankly the best flankers are really midfielders.

We have done well to work the flexibility into our midfielders. The point I was trying to make was more along the lines of not drafting pure mids without any positional flexibility and limited ability to play other positions. So drafting another Josh Thomas I would consider unwise and unnecessary because unless you are an a-grade mid you're not going to push into a midfield with Ball, Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas and then Beams + Sidebottom who should push up to play more midfield minutes over coming seasons amongst others.

Would be more keen to target a high talent medium forward, a crumbing type forward, a small defender and medium defender. Best if they can all push into the midfield and play minor minutes in midfield, but wouldn't be unhappy if they were specialists by position.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Macaffer is severely underrated on these forums. He is the best in our team at applying pressure inside the forward 50.and gives us an extra dimension as a medium forward. What Malthouse was doing playing him off half back this season is beyond me.

 

[jonbe54]

Macaffer is severely underrated on these forums. He is the best in our team at applying pressure inside the forward 50.and gives us an extra dimension as a medium forward. What Malthouse was doing playing him off half back this season is beyond me.

It's all about flexibility Tarks, look what Mick did with Daisy and what a revelation he's been have faith m8.

 

[iGNITER]

B - Toovey Brown Goldsack
HB - O'Brien Reid Shaw
C - Beams Thomas Sidebottom
HF - Fasolo Cloke McCarthy
F - Macaffer Dawes Blair
R - Witts Pendlebury (C) Wellingham
INT - Buckley Keeffe Rounds Sinclair

 

[Scodog10]

As were Swan, Didak and Johnson.

And before them it was Lockyer and Burns

 

[Pie eyed]

Macaffer is severely underrated on these forums. He is the best in our team at applying pressure inside the forward 50.and gives us an extra dimension as a medium forward. What Malthouse was doing playing him off half back this season is beyond me.

Only injury has kept McCafe out of the side, unfortunately.
Just never had a good run at it.