Future Developments of Sydney Stadiums

BringBackTorps

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It was reported on ABC TV yesterday the NSW LNP Govt. backbench is organising a MAJOR REVOLT over the stadia demolition proposals.
The backbenchers are claiming the public will not accept such huge waste of taxpayer moneys. There will be an embarassing, massive backflip forced on the NSW Govt. by its backbench.

The Govt. is still refusing to release any business case to justify the demolitions -which are likely to cost over $3 billion.

Also, a petition against the demolitions, started only on Sat. evening, by Sunday night had attracted 50,000 signatures!

It has been reported the Govt. will also be paying many $millions of compensation to RU etc.

PETITION details here:-
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/petition-calls-on-nsw-government-to-scrap-stadium-rebuild-plans-20171203-gzxsle.html
 
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General Giant

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It was reported on ABC TV yesterday the NSW LNP Govt. backbench is organising a MAJOR revolt over the stadia demolition proposals.
The backbenchers are claiming the public will not accept such huge waste of taxpayer moneys. There will be a massive backflip forced on the NSW Govt. by its backbench.
Same people will be bitching in a years time saying Sydney is lagging behind the other states in infrastructure.

Pathetic really.

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NoobPie

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You don't build something for the sole reason that your neighbour has a better one.
I find it comical that there is proportionally more support on these big footy threads for the $2B plus knock down-rebuild of two low utilisation stadiums than in the comments under Daily Telly articles basically campaigning for them

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/nrl-boss-todd-greenberg-to-pull-grand-final-from-nsw-if-government-backflips-on-stadium-promise/news-story/057bdf2d9e7fd7eabde816c72f38d8b4

"NRL boss Todd Greenberg has threatened to pull the NRL grand final out of NSW unless the state government stays the course on its $2 billion promise to build two new stadiums."

Surely this is at risk of back firing on the NRL? A lot of the comments under the article ask why the NRL is kicking in with its $ Billlion plus TV deal
 

NoobPie

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You build things if required.
Both stadiums are.


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It is only innumerate sports junkies that think this is a good idea. Seriously, it's mind boggling

It would be far better (but still almost certainly not the best use of public dollars) for both Sydney and Rugby League to spend $200M refurbing Alianz and then $100M each on Penrith, Cronulla, Manly, Belmore, Kogorah, Cambletown and Win. Still under $1B

Knocking down and rebuilding 17 year old olympic stadium in particular because allegedly it is not "world class" enough for a "world class city" is like a model getting nose jobs and face lifts once she hits her 30s - it can only be understood by understanding the underlying pathology
 

General Giant

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It is only innumerate sports junkies that think this is a good idea. Seriously, it's mind boggling
Pretty straight forward really. If you dont get it thats your issue.

It would be far better (but still almost certainly not the best use of public dollars) for both Sydney and Rugby League to spend $200M refurbing Alianz and then $100M each on Penrith, Cronulla, Manly, Belmore, Kogorah, Cambletown and Win. Still under $1B
Disagree. Trying to centalise the stadiums after decades of ridiculous funding left and right.

And considering what the 2 stadiuns bring in with major events. Public funding is warrented.

Knocking down and rebuilding 17 year old olympic stadium in particular because allegedly it is not "world class" enough for a "world class city" is like a model getting nose jobs and face lifts once she hits her 30s - it can only be understood by understanding the underlying pathology
Thats a sad way of looking at it.

ANZ was poorly designed. Its not good enough as an oval or rectangle.

Considering no money has been spent in 20 years in sydney since the Olymoics. The fact that they are finally starting to invest again should be applauded.
The same people whinging about this will be the same people whinging when we lose the events as well as complaigning the government doesnt spend on infrastructure.




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Roogal

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Considering no money has been spent in 20 years in sydney since the Olymoics. The fact that they are finally starting to invest again should be applauded. The same people whinging about this will be the same people whinging when we lose the events as well as complaigning the government doesnt spend on infrastructure.
There is a solid case to refurbish and update the stadiums, but to demolish them and rebuild with something will also date and look tired in 20 years time? What ... will the NSW Government propose knocking those down too in 20 years time? It is far cheaper to perhaps deepen the ground at Homebush by perhaps 3 metres and push some extra rows of seats closer to the arena. Even replace all of the old seats in the stadium with newer ones, give the whole joint a fresh lick of paint, replace the all of the lighting with newer LED ones and revamp the concourses inside and around the stadium. Total cost for that likely to be around 400 million and suddenly you have a stadium that looks different and that is totally refreshed for a fraction of the money. There is still plenty of scope left then to give the SFS a similar make-over and plenty of dosh left after that to upgrade the NRL grounds around the city.

If we consider that 61 years ago when Melbourne hosted the Olympics, much of the turmoil preceeding the Games was over where to build the main stadium and who would control it. To build a new stadium at the time would have cost millions of pounds which the city could ill-afford. It took the intervention of the State Government then to rule that they would be held at the MCG. Today it seems like a no-brainer really, but at the time the Olympic Committee and the Atletics Association vainly wanted a shiney new stadium to showcase Australia to the world and not the clapped-out and dated looking MCG. But the Government won the day, the MCG got a bit of a facelift by constructing the old Olympic Stand. The moral of the story is that they did what needed to be done and not what vested interests tried to push them into. At the end of the day, the MCG will never go down as being the prettiest of Olympic Stadiums, but it was the best and most cost effective solution that didn't send Melbourne broke at the time. We can learn a lot from our history:






The NSW government would win far more brownie points allocating moneys to build new stands at Lavington in Albury, and at Robertson Oval in Wagga Wagga as well as upgrade some of the regional rugby grounds. It's about spreading the love around the whole state in which they govern, and not just appease the well-healed in Sydney's East or the vested interests of the NRL Board.
 
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NoobPie

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Pretty straight forward really. If you dont get it thats your issue.
It is straight forward. It is unambiguously a moronic waste of public money to knock down two stadiums - one an olympic stadium only 17 years old!! - and rebuild them in the same spot

Disagree. Trying to centalise the stadiums after decades of ridiculous funding left and right.
Spending that kind of money on all the major suburban stadiums in Sydney would indeed be a poor used of public money - but not half as ar5e brained as this $2B plus idiocy


And considering what the 2 stadiuns bring in with major events. Public funding is warrented.
Well this only shows you have absolutely no idea, I'm afraid

1. they are not going to bring in "major events" at all. At the most it appears it would lock the NRL GF for 20 years. Major events are attracted because states major events arms pay for it.

2. You will not find one qualified economist who supports the actual claimed economic benefits of these "major events"


Thats a sad way of looking at it.

ANZ was poorly designed. Its not good enough as an oval or rectangle.

Considering no money has been spent in 20 years in sydney since the Olymoics. The fact that they are finally starting to invest again should be applauded.
The same people whinging about this will be the same people whinging when we lose the events as well as complaigning the government doesnt spend on infrastructure.

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It is not a sad way of looking at it at all. It is called analogy. The only argument of the small gaggle of fools you see supporting this is around Sydney needing these criminal waste because "a world class city needs world class stadiums". This is a city that had the olympics just 17 years ago. It is such a superficial, tragically insecure argument and it is replete with the delusional belief that, once these things get built, things are going to be any different from now - they'll still be empty most of the time, the transport to them will still be farked and NSW major events will still have to pay for the "major events" that are hosted there.
 

Roogal

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It is straight forward. It is unambiguously a moronic waste of public money to knock down two stadiums - one an olympic stadium only 17 years old!! - and rebuild them in the same spot



Spending that kind of money on all the major suburban stadiums in Sydney would indeed be a poor used of public money - but not half as ar5e brained as this $2B plus idiocy




Well this only shows you have absolutely no idea, I'm afraid

1. they are not going to bring in "major events" at all. At the most it appears it would lock the NRL GF for 20 years. Major events are attracted because states major events arms pay for it.

2. You will not find one qualified economist who supports the actual claimed economic benefits of these "major events"




It is not a sad way of looking at it at all. It is called analogy. The only argument of the small gaggle of fools you see supporting this is around Sydney needing these criminal waste because "a world class city needs world class stadiums". This is a city that had the olympics just 17 years ago. It is such a superficial, tragically insecure argument and it is replete with the delusional belief that, once these things get built, things are going to be any different from now - they'll still be empty most of the time, the transport to them will still be farked and NSW major events will still have to pay for the "major events" that are hosted there.
I've got one thing to say ... "MONORAIL" ;)
 

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BringBackTorps

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It is straight forward. It is unambiguously a moronic waste of public money to knock down two stadiums - one an olympic stadium only 17 years old!! - and rebuild them in the same spot
2. You will not find one qualified economist who supports the actual claimed economic benefits of these "major events"
100% correct.

Their own expert independent adviser, Infrastructure NSW, has advised the NSW Govt. there are NO economic benefits to demolishing the 2 stadia & rebuilding.
The Govt. has not produced a Business Case for spending c.$3 billion (publicly funded major projects invariably have significant cost blowouts) -because it can't obtain one from any reputable, independent economic infrastructure experts.

This absurd waste of taxpayer funds will result in an humiliating backflip for the NSW Govt. (after c. 3 years of "studies/consultation/economic analysis"etc).
 
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rfctiger74

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To be fair they built that before the simpsons episode

The NSW government could do worse than hiring this guy to sell these stadiums to the population though

View attachment 442797
Whaaaaaat?

Marge vs the monorail first aired january 14, 1993

Sydney olympic stadium
- design work commenced in 1993
- construction started september 1996
- completed March 1999

Monorail was well before the stadium
 

NoobPie

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Whaaaaaat?

Marge vs the monorail first aired january 14, 1993

Sydney olympic stadium
- design work commenced in 1993
- construction started september 1996
- completed March 1999

Monorail was well before the stadium
Could be wrong but I had assumed roogal was referring to sydneys decision to build a monorail as another example of a genuine world class city with inexplicable vanity issues

In terms of the Olympic stadium, if you accept that the Olympics were worthwhile, it had to be built. It is knocking it down and building it again 17 years later cos "a world class city needs a world class stadium" that is beyond moronic insecure vanity
 

Roogal

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Whaaaaaat?

Marge vs the monorail first aired january 14, 1993

Sydney olympic stadium
- design work commenced in 1993
- construction started september 1996
- completed March 1999

Monorail was well before the stadium
Ha ha ha ... keep your shirt on! The 'Monorail' joke was in reference to the Simpsons episode but I was likening the NSW Sports Ministers comments that every great city has to have great stadiums to the joke in the Simpsons when the pitch is that all great cities have a monorail. It was an analogy not a chronological comparison to Sydney's now dismantled monorail.

At least the former Premier of NSW Mike Baird completely and unambiguously poo-pooed the idea of demolishing the stadiums before he left office last year. But suddenly the same bloke who was Baird's Sports Minister and the new Premier have had an epiphany that demolishing them is a great idea, despite the great majority of NSW people thinking otherwise.

But Turnbull will no doubt get drawn into it and will cough up the dosh in yet another pathetic attempt to buy Western Sydney votes before next years Federal Election. They threw all the money that they had into Western Sydney at the last election and I'm pretty sure that Mr Turnbull actually didn't leave Western Sydney for the entire 80 days of that whole Election campaign except to visit Townsville (which he was also chasing) and committed $220 million to build a 25,000 seat NRL-only stadium there which will never be filled either. The Liberals chasing seats in Western Sydney and Townsville ... gee that worked out well for them at the last election didn't it? But they'll try again and there's your funding for your new stadium right there!
 
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rfctiger74

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Could be wrong but I had assumed roogal was referring to sydneys decision to build a monorail as another example of a genuine world class city with inexplicable vanity issues

In terms of the Olympic stadium, if you accept that the Olympics were worthwhile, it had to be built. It is knocking it down and building it again 17 years later cos "a world class city needs a world class stadium" that is beyond moronic insecure vanity
He was referring to the stadium, but we is all joking so no issues

On the stadium, i agree to a point. If something is a bad build from day one, how long do you bandaid for? Fact nsw govt and previous owner couldnt even be f’ed with bandaids says a lot
 

Rob

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Pretty straight forward really. If you dont get it thats your issue.



Disagree. Trying to centalise the stadiums after decades of ridiculous funding left and right.

And considering what the 2 stadiuns bring in with major events. Public funding is warrented.
What additional major events will either stadium attract that they wouldn't otherwise?

Because that's the issue here isn't it? The seats at Allianz will virtually never be filled. ANZ is unlikely to be over 50% capacity 10 times a year. So this isn't about the demand of Sydney residents.
 

rfctiger74

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What additional major events will either stadium attract that they wouldn't otherwise?

Because that's the issue here isn't it? The seats at Allianz will virtually never be filled. ANZ is unlikely to be over 50% capacity 10 times a year. So this isn't about the demand of Sydney residents.
Noone ever said its about raising capacity, it about making thr stadiums more relevant and more attractive for punters and corps to actually go to
 

Rob

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Noone ever said its about raising capacity, it about making thr stadiums more relevant and more attractive for punters and corps to actually go to
So why rebuild Allianz to such a high capacity? Are you suggesting it's actually going to be half full more than a couple of times a year?

And with ANZ, the events there are mostly either less than 20k or on very rare occasions they fill the joint. Where's the benefit? Those 10k crowds might be raised to 12k? It's not like there are heaps of 40k crowds that would be higher but for the poor quality of the venue.
 

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Times Allianz gets filled
-Sydney FC v WSW
-Friendlies against big international teams
-If Australia played there (which never happens)
Times ANZ gets filled
-NRL Grand Final
-Maybe if there's a big concert
I think that's damning enough.
 

Billy ray

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Could they lower the playing surface and make the lower bowl steeper and a few more rows (and rectangular) in an engineering sense?
This would make sightlines better, up capacity, and be brand new with modern stuff (and where most people sit in low capacity events).
 

Greenstar5

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Times Allianz gets filled
-Sydney FC v WSW
-Friendlies against big international teams
-If Australia played there (which never happens)
Times ANZ gets filled
-NRL Grand Final
-Maybe if there's a big concert
I think that's damning enough.
My list of big events for each stadium.
SFS
Sydney derby.
Wallabies Internationals.
Socceroos Internationals.
Rugby 7s.
NRL ANZAC Day.
Concerts.

Stadium Australia.
NRL GF.
Origin.
Bledisloe Cup.
Socceroos Internationals.
Sydney derby.
European football teams playing Aleague sides.
Concerts.
 

NoobPie

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My list of big events for each stadium.
SFS
Sydney derby.
Wallabies Internationals.
Socceroos Internationals.
Rugby 7s.
NRL ANZAC Day.
Concerts.

Stadium Australia.
NRL GF.
Origin.
Bledisloe Cup.
Socceroos Internationals.
Sydney derby.
European football teams playing Aleague sides.
Concerts.
So, even accepting some dubious entries and others that you'll have to pay for even after the insane investment, that's a pretty small number of events which are already catered for with the existing stadia

Meanwhile each of the two Melbourne oval stadiums, AO, scg and PS from next year (and the Gabba for the first decade after it was built) are at least two thirds full with football and cricket events the government doesn't have to bid for 20 to 40 times a year.
 
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